Reincarnation, rebirth and karma

As a Medium, I should think thousands in the physical, and in our current Indo-class races. This class would be shorter in term than Atlantean, and the Lumerian before these as the older the race the longer the term. There were two races before lumerian. I can easily consider millions of incarnations, but these would not all be in the Physical Plane of consciousness, as most would have been in the Astral Plane.

4.5 billion years is a long time ... if we use the earth as a reference. Since we are also considering an Astral Earth, it would not have to have the physical nature it has today. If we think theosophically or metaphysically we can consider incarnations on other Planets, ... and frankly, anywhere.

Although I would find Theosophical teachings to suggest a close tie to the chain of our Earth, ... from a clairvoyant mediumship practical experience perspective - I would say we do not ALL perform our reincarnation cycles just on this Earth, or its chain.
 
The reason I ask is because I was told we are allowed 12.

Namaste quahom,

thank you for the interesting question.

in the Buddhist exposition of this idea a being undergoes innumerable rebirths. in a practical sense, however, a being only reaps the consequences (vipaka) of their intentional actions/thoughts/words (karma) from no more than 7 arisings ago. so, at any point in a beings arising the vipaka which they experience has been created (karma) no more than 7 arisings ago.

indeed, when beings get close to their final arisings much of the vipaka which they endure is quite significant.

metta,

~v
 
The following is a link to a brief, rather technical commentary on the subject of differentiation of the human lotuses. The first half of the commentary may be useful, as well as the part at the very bottom which groups souls into three categories based on overall stage of unfoldment: The Names of the Egoic Lotuses

Also, I still find useful the analogy provided by the Aryas of 777 human incarnations per soul. It was made plain that this number is purely symbolical, the actual number being far greater ... but 777 allows us to focus on what is happening during the bulk of our incarnations (the 700), during the 70 which most of us are probably experiencing (again, symbolically) and the 7, which are the culmination of incarnation in the human kingdom.

It was said, as I recall, that the actual number of lifetimes for a soul `on the Path' could be as small as 7 incarnations ... :)
 
I find all the above interesting, I personally feel that all religions give a similar message. What I like most about Buddhism is that its so inward looking, as oppossed to Christanity which seems to me to be looking for something. To me Buddhism tells us we are all perfect as long as we pacify the mind. The mind is whats needed to be worked on.
 
To me Buddhism tells us we are all perfect as long as we pacify the mind. The mind is whats needed to be worked on.

Actually, I believe Buddhism tells us that we're all perfect just as we are. Pacifying the mind simply helps us see the perfection that was always there.
 
It was said, as I recall, that the actual number of lifetimes for a soul `on the Path' could be as small as 7 incarnations ... :)

Hmm would that be 7 incarnations to completion....and then there might be future incarnations based on choice, no longer coming back for your own completion but for to asist that of others?

Who would we say only took 7 completions? And would they all be the same soul?
 
Who would we say only took 7 completions? And would they all be the same soul?

Buddhists (at least the ones I know of) don't believe in souls.

And only seven incarnations?

Man. That is one over-achiever.
 
I find all the above interesting, I personally feel that all religions give a similar message. What I like most about Buddhism is that its so inward looking, as oppossed to Christanity which seems to me to be looking for something. To me Buddhism tells us we are all perfect as long as we pacify the mind. The mind is whats needed to be worked on.


I would think there is a deep tradition of contemplation in Christianity. The practice that we find most resonance with as a means of an authentic being in the world should I think be the one that we engage with. There is indeed no goal to be reached but this is not discovered without the search. To study the way is to study the self...

s.
 
I'm interested to know how Christianity would have developed if the Gnostic sect had survived. That would be interesting. The thing that I find that puts most people off religion is the fact that most religions tell others how they should and shouldn't live. The very people that put a stop to the Gnostic sect. I can find good and bad in everything, but I only take the good.
 
Hmm would that be 7 incarnations to completion....and then there might be future incarnations based on choice, no longer coming back for your own completion but for to asist that of others?

Who would we say only took 7 completions? And would they all be the same soul?
wil,

Yes, from the entrance of the Path of Initiation to the end of the need to incarnate upon our planet, that would be 7 lifetimes ... or fewer. The choice to voluntarily reincarnate after the 6th Initiation means that one has chosen `The Path of Earth Service,' which is just one of Seven Paths available to us. Souls reach Liberation upon any one of the 7 Rays, and certainly there is a correlation between the 7 Paths and the 7 Rays.

That said, it is made clear in the Ageless Wisdom that a Master is a Master of all Seven Rays ... such that technically, he could choose any of these Paths, or if asked to remain and make the sacrifice of Earth Service he might be asked to serve in a different Ray capacity than that through which he achieved Liberation.

Consider the following excerpt from The Rays and Initiations:
This is the only Path which the Lord of the World regards as within the field of His spiritual interference. He reserves the right to retain in the service of the Hierarchy, and consequently of Humanity and the subsidiary evolutions, Those Masters Whom He regards at any one time as essential to the work to be done. This He does by asking Them to record Their decision [regarding post-Earth spiritual evolution] when taking the sixth initiation, but to postpone moving on to one or other of the Paths until He gives the word. This word He has lately given in the case of the Buddha, Who ... will now move forward - in His own good time - on to the Path which will lead Him to His rightful field of expression.
Esoterically, the Buddha is understood to have all but transcended contact with the Earth Logos ... yet annually during the Wesak Festival [celebrated in India and by esoteric groups in the West as well] He is believed to return for a Ceremony and Blessing which helps provide much of the Spiritual impetus for planetary growth for the rest of the year.

In terms of individual karma, it might be considered that once the Initiate has been admitted onto the Path [with the 1st or Birth Initiation, called `Stream-Entrant' in Buddhism], s/he rapidly eliminates all remaining personal or individual karma and begins to integrate with the Master's Ashram and group, becoming a vital part of the Solution to Earth's ills & woes rather than creating additional karmic friction. From here on out, even though there may be slips & falls, the role of the Disciple is to help Work out the Divine Plan as best s/he senses it in the outer life ... through whatever projects s/he is assigned.

For example, and in answer to another question, upon reaching a fairly high initiation a more advanced project is pledged and undertaken by the Adept ... which is considered his GIFT to Humanity. The Tibetan Master Djwhal Khul, upon attaining Adeptship in 1875, pledged to help provide the Training materials for Discipleship in the New Era ... via 3 `waves' of direct dictation. The first wave of his Teaching came primarily via H.P. Blavatsky and is best typified by The Secret Doctrine, though I believe there are other examples. The second wave is the 19 volumes of material which Alice Bailey wrote for him and which many esoteric students still use today. A final wave was promised, said to emerge via a disciple sometime early this century. These three waves, viewed as a complete whole, are meant to serve as training for disciples and Initiates of all degrees, up to an advanced level ... for some time to come, if not for the entire Aquarian Era of ~2100 years.

A second example of such a GIFT is that of the Master Rakoczy, during his earlier incarnation as Sir Francis Bacon. Sir Francis Bacon either WAS Shakespeare, or else overshadowed him. Thus, the collected works - poems, plays, what-have-you, are the gift of this Great Initiate to the world.

I will try to share something of a tabulation of Initiate-Masters who entered the Path and attained Liberation [5th or 6th Degree] in 7 lifetimes or fewer. What I believe, based on my studies, meditations, experiences and research, includes the following:

Master DK
  1. Djhwal Khul, current incarnation, 5th Degree Adept, yet he will likely take the 6th Initiation, achieving Liberation; presently remains with Earth's Hierarchy.
  2. Arya Asanga, 4th Century AD, founder of Yogacara School of Buddhism.
  3. Gaspar, one of the 3 Magi.
  4. Kleinias, the closest disciple of Pythagoras.
  5. Benjamin, head of one of the 12 Tribes of Israel.
I feel certain that at least one incarnation is missing from this list, maybe two. Nevertheless, it would prove the rule.

Master KH
  1. Koot Hoomi, current incarnation, 6th Degree Chohan ... future World Teacher [Bodhisattva, following Maitreya]
  2. Nagarjuna, 2nd-3rd Century AD, founder of Madhyamaka School of Buddhism.
  3. Balthazar, one of the 3 Magi.
  4. Pythagoras.
  5. Akehnaton.
Again, this case is as with Master DK, and even 2 additional lifetimes does not disprove the rule.

Master R

  1. Master Rakoczy, current incarnation [if any], 7th Degree Maha-Chohan or `Lord of Civilization' ~ a role in Hierarchy of extended duration.
  2. Sir Francis Bacon, aka Sir William Shakespeare, 16th-17th Centuries.
  3. Christian Rosenkreuz, 17th Century AD, founder of Rosicrucianism.
  4. Roger Bacon, 13th Century AD, philosopher and advocate of the science method.
  5. Proclus, 5th Century AD, last major NeoPlatonic philosopher.
  6. St. Alban, 3rd Century AD, first British Christian martyr.
  7. Plato???
I have always found Master R's sequence of incarnations to be quite interesting, maybe because they are most directly intertwined with Western civilization ... as far as I can tell, based on the information that has been provided. Some add Merlin to the list, and I don't know about Plato, but we are told that Plato was definitely an Initiate, which would mean that he is an advanced Initiate ~ Master, Chohan, etc. ~ today.

Other current Masters I know about as far as prior incarnations include the Master Hilarion, whose prior births were: Iamblichus [a Greek NeoPlatonist], St. Paul [formerly Saul of Tarsus] and undoubtedly another prominent figure or two from Jewish history. The Master Polidorus Isurenus [names tell us a lot, sometimes] appeared as Philo Judaeus, and the Master who was Sir Thomas More may have also appeared in history as the poet Thomas More.

Curiously, the cases where the same soul can be seen reincarnating in several, final lives along the path [of necessary incarnations] often involve the same NAME being used over & over, either directly or in certain permutations. For example, Sir Francis Bacon & Roger Bacon in the case of Master R, above. Yet the most well known of all, for most of us in the West, would be:

Master J

  1. Master Jesus, current incarnation [if any], 6th Degree Chohan, on a different Path than several of the other Masters
  2. Ramanujacharya, 12th Century, Indian theologian and philosopher
  3. Apollonius of Tyana, 1st Century, NeoPythagorean philosopher [taking the 5th Initiation]
  4. Jesus of Nazareth, b.105BCE/d.72BCE?, The Teacher of Righteousness
  5. Joshua, from the Book of Zechariah [taking the 3rd Initiation]
  6. Jeshua, from the time of Ezra
  7. Joshua, the Son of Nun, in the Mosaic lineage [certainly a 1st ° Initiate by this time]
Interestingly, it is JESUS of Nazareth who provides for us the most clear and unequivocal case of an individual soul entering the path of Initiation and rapidly completing the final series of lives in order to attain to Liberation ... or at least, Jesus is the only Soul for whom we have accurate information. The other example is that of the CHRIST Himself, but the Tibetan Master only lists Sri Krishna as the most recent other incarnation, while an additional birth is known but is too obscure to list.

The Christ would actually qualify as the FIRST of Earth's true Humanity to attain to the goal, because the Buddha technically belongs to a former round [Manvantara] of Evolution. The Christ and the Buddha, many aeons past [in Atlantean or Lemurian times] both made the pledge, and both have reached their goal FAR in excess, that is faster, than/of any other human soul.

Master Jesus, on the other hand, shows that in perhaps FIVE clear lifetimes, a disciple can enter the Path, become an entrant of the Blue Lodge on Sirius [3rd Degree Initiate, "Blessed are the PURE IN HEART ~ 2nd degree `Baptized' ~ for they shall SEE God" ... compare: Aaronic Blessing] ... then attain to the higher initiations in a final one or two lifetimes. The unusual circumstances that apply to the Initiate Jesus, however, namely the overshadowing by the more advanced Initiate and current Bodhisattva [Maitreya, the World Teacher, the Christ] ... make the case of Jesus a special consideration.

I know this is lengthy; it's a favorite subject of mine. I know of only a few other series of lives, but these include a) my own and b) those of a few close friends. I do not feel comfortable revealing the latter, which are necessarily incomplete anyway ... and in my own case, I have only the understanding of a sequence which precedes entrance onto the Path of Initiation, rather than one which takes us - through 7 or fewer - to self-Mastery and Liberation. Oh, that I were already `there!' ;):):p
 
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