Did Jesus Die?

[Ahanu]

the mainstream islamic understanding is that Jesus [pbuh] was put to a 'minor death' i.e sleep, when he was raised to the heavens

I'm thrilled you accept the minority understanding among Christians about the death of Jesus, because there is a minority understanding among Muslims about the death of Jesus too.

According to some Muslims, Jesus died:

By far, the most important element for the history of Muslim-Christian relations, is the Ikhwan al-Safa’’s interpretation of the crucifixion. Unlike most Muslim commentators, who are inclined to interpret Q 4:157 as meaning that someone other than Jesus was killed, the authors of the Rasa’il affirm that Jesus did die on the cross. However, they emphasise that it was only his human reality (nasut) that was killed. The deception into which the Jews fell, and to which the Qur’an refers, was to believe that they had really killed him. The Ikhwan al-Safa’ deny this, since Jesus’ real, spiritual being (lahut) lived on, because the soul is eternal and cannot be killed. Their interpretation of the verse is thus one which is in harmony with their worldview and their conception of the soul. Two things are worth mentioning in this regard. First, that the terms nasut and lahut originate in the Christian debates on the divinity and humanity of the person of Christ, and their use in the Rasa’il probably betrays Nestorian influences. Second, the Ikhwan al-Safa’’s reading coincides with other Isma‘ili authors, among them Abu Hatim al-Razi (q.v.), who had no quandaries about accepting the crucifixion of the body, which in their view highlighted the supremacy of the spiritual over the physical realm. Two further points highlight the affinity that the Ikhwan al-Safa’ feel with Jesus. The first is that he is portrayed as a spiritual healer, capable of curing sick souls of their blindness to spiritual realities, which is the stated aim of the Rasa’il themselves. Jesus is also portrayed as a missionary who counts on the help of his disciples; in the same way, the authors see themselves as a broad movement to harmonise religion and philosophy with a view to educating and advancing the spiritual status of their contemporaries.

The Institute of Ismaili Studies - Jesus, Christians and Christianity in the Thought of the Ikhwan al-Safa’

Also, Todd Lawson, a scholar on all things Islam, picks up this interpretation too:

Todd Lawson on Vimeo

 

[Abdullah]

I mean no disrespect in posting here in the Islam forum of Interfaith Forums..

The Qur'anic verses:

4:157 They say that: “We have killed Messiah Jesus, son of Mary, messenger of Allah.” Neither did they kill him, nor did they crucify him, but (it was made) to resemble for them. Surely those who differed in it (they were) in doubt about it. They did not have any knowledge about it except following the guess and surely they did not kill him (Jesus).

4:158 Allah raised him (Jesus) up to Him (in the heavens). Allah is All-Powerful, All-Wise.

Have been the defining ayat for those who respect the Qur'an as descriptive of what happened at the crucifixion of Jesus..

The Baha'i view is that the people thought it was surely the end of Jesus and that they "killed" Him. Physically He was crucified but spiritually it did not end the teachings of Jesus and His Spirit was "raised ..up to Him" meaning His Spirit could not be crucified.

There is another verse of Qur'an that speaks to how Martyrs are viewed..that they are not "dead". You can find this in Surih 2:154 and in Surih 3:169..

And say not of those who are slain in the Way of Allah: "They are dead". Nay they are living, though ye perceive (it) not.

So Jesus being martyred on the cross was not "killed" as it states above in Surih 4:157.

the latter verse is only affirming a special station for the martyrs; they have indeed died on earth just like all humans do [and Jesus [pbuh] will eventually:

• "Every soul shall have taste of death; In the end to us shall ye be brought back
  .(Surah Al-'Ankabut The Spider 29:57)

but that is to confirm that martyrs have been entered directly into paradise as soon as they died, and where they are now enjoying their 72 hourines and all the rest!

in the hadith we have about martyrs:

Ibn Mas‘ood

related to the meaning of the above verse [Quran 3:169]</SPAN></SPAN>, the Prophet

mentioned that the souls of these martyrs roam in Paradise wherever they wish and that they desire nothing but to return to this worldly life again and to be killed in the cause of Allaah again. [Muslim]

Al-Qurtubi

stated that scholars unanimously agree that it is only for martyrs that food and delight are brought immediately. Others are only shown their would-be place in Paradise until they are resurrected on the Day of Judgment. Ibn ‘Umar

mentioned that the dead person is shown his seat either in Paradise or in Hell until the Day of Resurrection. [Al-Bukhaari and Muslim]</SPAN></SPAN>
Martyrs are alive with their Lord - Islamweb.net -English

 

[Abdullah]

I'm thrilled you accept the minority understanding among Christians about the death of Jesus, because there is a minority understanding among Muslims about the death of Jesus too.

According to some Muslims, Jesus died:

By far, the most important element for the history of Muslim-Christian relations, is the Ikhwan al-Safa’’s interpretation of the crucifixion. Unlike most Muslim commentators, who are inclined to interpret Q 4:157 as meaning that someone other than Jesus was killed, the authors of the Rasa’il affirm that Jesus did die on the cross. However, they emphasise that it was only his human reality (nasut) that was killed. The deception into which the Jews fell, and to which the Qur’an refers, was to believe that they had really killed him. The Ikhwan al-Safa’ deny this, since Jesus’ real, spiritual being (lahut) lived on, because the soul is eternal and cannot be killed. Their interpretation of the verse is thus one which is in harmony with their worldview and their conception of the soul. Two things are worth mentioning in this regard. First, that the terms nasut and lahut originate in the Christian debates on the divinity and humanity of the person of Christ, and their use in the Rasa’il probably betrays Nestorian influences. Second, the Ikhwan al-Safa’’s reading coincides with other Isma‘ili authors, among them Abu Hatim al-Razi (q.v.), who had no quandaries about accepting the crucifixion of the body, which in their view highlighted the supremacy of the spiritual over the physical realm. Two further points highlight the affinity that the Ikhwan al-Safa’ feel with Jesus. The first is that he is portrayed as a spiritual healer, capable of curing sick souls of their blindness to spiritual realities, which is the stated aim of the Rasa’il themselves. Jesus is also portrayed as a missionary who counts on the help of his disciples; in the same way, the authors see themselves as a broad movement to harmonise religion and philosophy with a view to educating and advancing the spiritual status of their contemporaries.

The Institute of Ismaili Studies - Jesus, Christians and Christianity in the Thought of the Ikhwan al-Safa’

Also, Todd Lawson, a scholar on all things Islam, picks up this interpretation too:

Todd Lawson on Vimeo

very interesting, but there will allways be a tiny minority trying to appease Christians and the like

 

[True Gabriel]

My dear friend TG, this is not to offend any non-Muslim here allthough there might seem to be an air of self-righteousness about it, but here is a reply i gave on another forum regarding Christians and 'doubts' that proves Gods words to be true:

on seconds thought, i'll rephrase it here:

the general Christians do have doubts about their religion, and there may be a tiny minority that might have psyched themselves up to believe 'a hundred percent' but such 'belief', as it flies in the face of true evidence and logic, is really just a psyched up condition rather than genuine belief

did you know that in the gospel of Barnabas?it says, and that there is an opinion amongst christians, that it was someone else on that cross rather than Jesus [pbuh]; basically when that someone esle was taken on the cross, he looked similar to Jesus [pbuh] thus some guessed that he was Jesus, and others guessed that he was someone else, and these doubfull opinions have since been passed down among the generations

i have put this to the test with many christians; even hardcore evangelicals in the process of trying to convert me, when questioned have admitted that they just guess their religion to be true and cannot say that it is a hundred percent without a shred of doubt, thus if their is doubt in their whole religion, there has to be in any particulars about it

i mentioned this on another forum once, and several christians came along and proclaimed that they believed without a shred of doubt; i left it at that for apart from the Quranic verse i had no other evidence, but one by one in the next months, i caught them all expressing doubt and went straight in there and thanked them for proving the Quranic verse true!

Thomas was the greatest doubter and after he personally saw and touch the resurrected Jesus Christ he was empower by the Holy Spirit and became ultimately inspired a true believer and a great apostle he will be the only apostle to set out to none Jewish territories preaching about Jesus Christ the Son of God and the resurrected Jesus Christ the God.

Thomas was fully convince that Jesus is God;
John 20:25 - 29 25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”
But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”
26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Muslim or Islam, Mormons and Jevohah Witnesses have the same belief that Jesus did not die on the cross and that it was someone else, this logic totally contradicts that character of Jesus Christ that Muslims believe he is the spirit of Gabriel angel and can not die, if Jesus can not die then there is no point for Jesus to ask for volunteer to die in his stead. Also this asking for someone else to die in his place contradicts Jesus own predictions that he will die a violent death. The problem Islam can not accept this is because they can not accept that Jesus resurrected, Jesus resurrection proof that Jesus Christ can not die.

54. And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers. 55. (And remember) when Allah said: O Jesus! Lo! I am gathering thee and causing thee to ascend unto Me, and am cleansing thee of those who disbelieve and am setting those who follow thee above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then unto Me ye will (all) return, and I shall judge between you as to that wherein ye used to differ. 56. As for those who disbelieve I shah chastise them with a heavy chastisement in the world and the Hereafter; and they will have no helpers. 57. And as for those who believe and do good works, He will pay them their wages in full. Allah loveth not wrongdoers. Surah 3:54-57

Why would Allah need to scheme? For this scheme to work would mean the cooperation of the Romans, 12 apostles, Mary mother of Jesus and the Pharisees.

Matthew 5:17 -20
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus Christ is to fulfill his mission and that is to proof that God is Almighty and that the Kingdom of God is not of this world. Jesus would be violating the Law or the Prophets by asking someone else to die for him in essence he will be cheating thus making him a false prophet. That is not what Jesus Christ is.

Galatians 1:5 - 8 (beware of false teachings)
6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!

 

[True Gabriel]

My dear friend TG, this is not to offend any non-Muslim here allthough there might seem to be an air of self-righteousness about it, but here is a reply i gave on another forum regarding Christians and 'doubts' that proves Gods words to be true:

on seconds thought, i'll rephrase it here:

the general Christians do have doubts about their religion, and there may be a tiny minority that might have psyched themselves up to believe 'a hundred percent' but such 'belief', as it flies in the face of true evidence and logic, is really just a psyched up condition rather than genuine belief

did you know that in the gospel of Barnabas?it says, and that there is an opinion amongst christians, that it was someone else on that cross rather than Jesus [pbuh]; basically when that someone esle was taken on the cross, he looked similar to Jesus [pbuh] thus some guessed that he was Jesus, and others guessed that he was someone else, and these doubfull opinions have since been passed down among the generations

i have put this to the test with many christians; even hardcore evangelicals in the process of trying to convert me, when questioned have admitted that they just guess their religion to be true and cannot say that it is a hundred percent without a shred of doubt, thus if their is doubt in their whole religion, there has to be in any particulars about it

i mentioned this on another forum once, and several christians came along and proclaimed that they believed without a shred of doubt; i left it at that for apart from the Quranic verse i had no other evidence, but one by one in the next months, i caught them all expressing doubt and went straight in there and thanked them for proving the Quranic verse true!

Thomas was the greatest doubter and after he personally saw and touch the resurrected Jesus Christ he was empower by the Holy Spirit and became ultimately inspired a true believer and a great apostle he will be the only apostle to set out to none Jewish territories preaching about Jesus Christ the Son of God and the resurrected Jesus Christ the God.

Thomas was fully convince that Jesus is God;
John 20:25 - 29 25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”
But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”
26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Muslim or Islam, Mormons and Jevohah Witnesses have the same belief that Jesus did not die on the cross and that it was someone else, this logic totally contradicts that character of Jesus Christ that Muslims believe he is the spirit of Gabriel angel and can not die, if Jesus can not die then there is no point for Jesus to ask for volunteer to die in his stead. Also this asking for someone else to die in his place contradicts Jesus own predictions that he will die a violent death. The problem Islam can not accept this is because they can not accept that Jesus resurrected, Jesus resurrection proof that Jesus Christ can not die.

54. And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers. 55. (And remember) when Allah said: O Jesus! Lo! I am gathering thee and causing thee to ascend unto Me, and am cleansing thee of those who disbelieve and am setting those who follow thee above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then unto Me ye will (all) return, and I shall judge between you as to that wherein ye used to differ. 56. As for those who disbelieve I shah chastise them with a heavy chastisement in the world and the Hereafter; and they will have no helpers. 57. And as for those who believe and do good works, He will pay them their wages in full. Allah loveth not wrongdoers. Surah 3:54-57

Here is the inconsistency, it would seem that Muslims have accepted some parts of the gospel of Barnabas that support their claim that Jesus is not God and at the same time not accept parts that they view as too Christian, it seem more like a nit peaking just like they accept Christian Gabriel and parts of the Bible. This only prove that Islam has its origin in early Christian teachings base on other sects that started to develop within the 3rd century when interpretation begun to differ. Most of those Christian sects will be dominant in the Middle East including large parts of Saudi Arabia.

To understand it fully we need to view this things in a secular point of view by going through the historical events as to how Islam came about.

 

[Ahanu]

very interesting, but there will allways be a tiny minority trying to appease Christians and the like

Gabriel Said Reynolds argues in "The Muslim Jesus: Dead or Alive?" that the Koran is in conversation with the Gospels in regards to Jesus' death:

"Indeed the key to understanding the Quran’s reference to the crucifixion, it seems to me, is to appreciate the rhetoric of the larger passage in which it stands. That rhetoric is, above all, marked by anti-Jewish polemic. In this light Nasr Abū Zayd comments, “Since [the reference to the Crucifixion] exists only in the context of responding to the Jewish claim, the discourse structure suggests it was denying the capability of the Jews to have done this depending on their own power. . .” Geoffrey Parrinder similarly appreciates this insight: “It is important to study the context of this passage, which is that of the rejection of the messengers of God by the Jews, the first People of the Book."

For this same reason William Montgomery Watt argues that even a Christian might accept the Quran’s statement on the crucifixion, “since the crucifixion was the work of Roman soldiers; and it is also true in a deeper sense, since the crucifixion was not a victory for the Jews in view of his resurrection”. Accordingly Kenneth Cragg argues that the emphasis of sūrat al-nisā’ (4) 157–8 is not on the crucifixion itself but on the evil instinct of humans, who believed they could outsmart God by killing His messenger. Thus the phrase shubbiha la-hum does not mean that the figure of Jesus appeared to them, but rather that the event was made to appear other than it was; in other words, God outsmarted them (cf. Q 3.54).

The first theme is Jewish infidelity and perfidy. The Quran repeatedly presents the Jews as killers of the Prophets. In sūrat al-baqara (2) 91, the Quran challenges those Jews who claim to believe, “So why did you kill the Prophets of God before you believed?” Elsewhere (Q 5.70), the Quran relates, “We made a covenant with the Israelites and sent messengers to them. But as for those messengers who brought them something they did not desire, [the Israelites] rejected some of them and killed others” (cf. Q 3.21, 112, 181, 183; 4.155). In other words, the Quran not only leaves open the possibility that Jesus died on the Cross, it uses his death on the Cross as a paradigmatic example of Jewish infidelity, the primary theme of the larger passage in which the reference to the crucifixion appears (Q 4.153–9). At the same time the Quran makes the death of Jesus an example of divine control over human actions. As verse 54 of sūrat āl ʿImrān puts it, “They schemed and God schemed. God is the best of schemers”.

The second theme is divine control over life and death. Indeed it seems to me that the Quran uses the transitive verb tawaffā to teach just this point. Humans can no more take a human life than they can create one. God creates life and He takes life away. This is why the Quran tells the believers in sūrat al-anfāl (8) 17 (a verse traditionally applied to the battle of Badr): “You did not kill them. God killed them”. Still more explicit is sūrat āl ʿImrān (3) 145: “No one can die except by God’s permission”. Elsewhere the Quran uses the death of Jesus (and Mary) as a paradigmatic example to this effect, when it asks, “If God desired to take the life (yuhlik) of Jesus the Son of Mary, and his mother, and everyone on earth, who could resist Him?” (Q 5.17). Thus the Jews who claim to have killed Jesus in sūrat al-nisā’ (4) 157 are twice in error. They both schemed against the Messenger of God and arrogated to themselves God’s power over life and death.

Meanwhile, it is worth noting that when the Quran uses the crucifixion as a paradigmatic example of Jewish perfidy it is in close conversation with Christian tradition. Indeed one of the fundamental topoi of the New Testament is the exaltation of Jesus above the scheme of the Jews. For this reason the Synoptic Evangelists have Jesus quote Psalm 118.22–3: “The stone which the builders rejected has become the cornerstone” (Matt. 21.42; Mark 12.10; Luke 20.17). Again this line is quoted in Acts of the Apostles, this time by Peter, while standing in front of the Sanhedrin with a man whom he has cured. Here, in fact, Peter makes it explicit that the “builders” of Psalm 118.22 are the Jews who schemed against Jesus: “You must know, all of you, and the whole people of Israel, that it is by the name of Jesus Christ, the Nazarene, whom you crucified, and God raised from the dead, by this name and by no other that this man stands before you cured. This is the stone which you, the builders, rejected but which has become the cornerstone” (Acts 4.10–1).

Peter’s speech is itself a recapitulation of a speech he makes before the Jews in the previous chapter, wherein he declares: “It was you who accused the Holy and Upright One, you who demanded that a murderer should be released to you while you killed the prince of life. God, however, raised him from the dead, and to that fact we are witnesses” (Acts 3.14–5). Later in Acts, meanwhile, Stephen will likewise stand before the Sanhedrin and, condemning Jewish infidelity, ask them, “Can you name a single prophet your ancestors never persecuted? They killed those who foretold the coming of the Upright One, and now you have become his betrayers, his murderers” (Acts 7.52). Indeed, to a great extent, the first section of the Book of Acts (1–8) is the story of the triumph of Jesus
over the Jews.

The sequence of sūrat al-nisā’ (4) 157–8 suggests precisely this theme. The Jews boast of killing Jesus74 when the event was in fact determined by God (Q 4.157), who raised Jesus in triumph (Q 4.158). Yet in this light the most important verse is the one that follows (Q 4.159), in which the Quran declares: “Every one from the People of the Book will believe in him before his death. On the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness against them”. While the mufassirūn conclude that the Quran makes Jesus a judge of both Jews and Christians in this verse, the fact that the entire pericope (Q 4.153–9) is anti-Jewish suggests that the Quran is referring in particular to Jesus, risen from the dead, as a witness against his murderers."

 

[Ahanu]

Furthermore, Reynolds writes:

"This point might be taken still further. If tafsīr indeed provides an accurate explanation of the Quran’s original, intended meaning, then nowhere should the explanation be clearer than in the case of the Crucifixion. If the Prophet Muhammad announced to his companions that Jesus never died, but rather someone who was made miraculously to look like him died in his place, i.e. if he gave a historical account of the crucifixion which fundamentally contradicts that which Jews and Christians had been reporting for hundreds of years, then certainly such a revolutionary account – if any – would be well remembered and well preserved. But, quite to the contrary, the reports of the mufassirūn are inconsistent and often contradictory. They have all of the tell-tale signs of speculative exegesis."

If you want to see a few examples, just read my source in the link above.

 

[True Gabriel]

with overwhelming proof of the Bibles distortion, one cannot say for sure that those are infact Jesus' [pbuh] words, unless they match the undistorted revelation ofcourse; the Quran

as for the 'historical evidences'; well their forefathers were the deifiers of Jesus [pbuh] who killed off the true beleivers

And the interpretation of them verses as Jesus [pbuh] predicting his death are very far fetched, for they all apperantly mean something totally different; Jesus [pbuh] will indeed die, but this will be on his return

the mainstream islamic understanding is that Jesus [pbuh] was put to a 'minor death' i.e sleep, when he was raised to the heavens

Jesus [pbuh] not dying fits in with his return too; he will return as his life on earth has not finished yet; he has not died yet

And one cannot say that to go to the heavenly realms is a 'death' for the Prophet [saw] went there on his miraj, but we know that he only experienced the only one death, when he died at the end of his life

Jesus resurrection fits well to the scriptures of Revelation both for Christianity and Islam. Because Jesus Christ has died and resurrected He can not die anymore that is why He is proclaim as the final judge and arbiter at the end of times because He is God.

What Muslims did was to hand pick some materials from the Bible and other questionable gospels that lacks proper scrutiny and authenticity and add their own materials into it through Mohammed to form the religion of Islam that is why there are many inconsistency one of the major inconsistency is the Gabriel of Mohammed and Gabriel of Mary. Others include the story of Isaac and Ishmael.

One of the questionable gospel writings that Muslims have use is the gospel of Barnabas they claim that Mohammed was prophesied by Jesus himself. Which is true the gospel of Barnabas did mention the coming of Mohammed

Jesus answered: "The name of the Messiah is admirable, for God himself gave him the name when he had created his soul, and placed it in a celestial splendour. God said: 'Wait Mohammed; for thy sake I will to create paradise, the world, and a great multitude of creatures, whereof I make thee a present, insomuch that whoso bless thee shall be blessed, and whoso shall curse thee shall be accursed. When I shall send thee into the world I shall send thee as my messenger of salvation, and thy word shall be true, insomuch that heaven and earth shall fail, but thy faith shall never fail.' Mohammed is his blessed name." Then the crowd lifted up their voices, saying: "O God, send us thy messenger: O Admirable One, come quickly for the salvation of the world!"
—Barnabas 97:9-10

But what the gospel didn't say was that Mohammed was to start his own religion called Islam. Mohammed was supposed to continue Jesus teachings and probably assign to reach out to the desert tribes of Saudi Arabia the children of Ishmael. Instead Mohammed started his own religion and made himself the undisputed and infallible leader of it.

The Bible has proven to be the authentic book of God that is why Muslims kept searching through the pages of the Holy Bible seeking faults but could not find any instead they have use it as a reference to transfer some materials from the Bible into their Quran such as the virgin Mary virgin birth to the son of God and the good character of Gabriel the archangel that Muslims did not knew very well earlier that is why the first narration of Gabriel encounter with Mohammed showed a total different Gabriel from the Gabriel of Mary. Another issue is birth of Jesus which we will discuss later.

 

[True Gabriel]

Gabriel Said Reynolds argues in "The Muslim Jesus: Dead or Alive?" that the Koran is in conversation with the Gospels in regards to Jesus' death:

(Q 4.159), in which the Quran declares: “Every one from the People of the Book will believe in him before his death. On the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness against them”. While the mufassirūn conclude that the Quran makes Jesus a judge of both Jews and Christians in this verse, the fact that the entire pericope (Q 4.153–9) is anti-Jewish suggests that the Quran is referring in particular to Jesus, risen from the dead, as a witness against his murderers.[/I]"

Well put.
It would seem that quranic verse confirm Jesus died as a human and resurrected as God, his final revelation to all that unfortunately many still deny and continue to distort.

 

[Lunitik]

Jesus certainly died, all material things are transient, whatsoever has a beginning must have an end...

Christ is living in all those that have tasted of him, all those that have put their own lives down to partake in the Holy Spirit, in them all, Christ lives. Too much people are stuck on the physical form, too much people do not understand the words "I and my father are one", they put it aside, they worship instead of experiencing for themselves, yet still they say they are born again Christians.

Christians go on talking against what is termed "Christ-consciousness", it means nothing else except partaking in the Holy Spirit, dropping your will for the divine will, floating with the stream instead of trying to swim against it. It is because the Christian priests are just like those whom Jesus has talked against, they talk of the scriptures but they haven't experienced anything. If they don't understand the ramifications properly, how can they convey it to you? It is not your fault, yet just like the Pharisee, you will go on defending the tradition against a Jesus when really he calls you to its reality.

Of course, Christ-consciousness is something basically wrong. It shows the person is learned of Krishna's texts, because there it is rightfully called "Krishna-consciousness", it would be better if - when addressing Christians - the correct terminology is used otherwise their minds protest. It does not mean the reality differs, only the periphery - the terminology - is different.

 

[Lunitik]

I go on saying Holy Spirit refers to the One Life - God, the Absolute, the Source.

If you consider yourself distinct, you are going against that, you are fueling the ego. When it arises "I am this body" and "I am this mind and these feelings", now you have created distinction, identification. It is said God's name is "I am", when asked to clarify, God says "I am that I am". Free from definition, free from qualification, simply the awareness that "I am", that is God.

Everything which is added to this is ego based, it creates the personality, now the person is and God is no more there. Now we have to convince ourselves again that we are not all this other nonsense, this is often called detachment, renunciation, Jesus states that you have to hate your family and your own life - it is a more direct way of saying it. Once it is all dropped, you return to a simple state of awareness, not even "I am" arises, you are that which all arises in, before it ever arose, you were.

 

[Abdullah]

Furthermore, Reynolds writes:

"This point might be taken still further. If tafsīr indeed provides an accurate explanation of the Quran’s original, intended meaning, then nowhere should the explanation be clearer than in the case of the Crucifixion. If the Prophet Muhammad announced to his companions that Jesus never died, but rather someone who was made miraculously to look like him died in his place, i.e. if he gave a historical account of the crucifixion which fundamentally contradicts that which Jews and Christians had been reporting for hundreds of years, then certainly such a revolutionary account – if any – would be well remembered and well preserved. But, quite to the contrary, the reports of the mufassirūn are inconsistent and often contradictory. They have all of the tell-tale signs of speculative exegesis."

If you want to see a few examples, just read my source in the link above.

Basically what reynolds and montgommery done is desired to 'spin' the Islamic verses to fit the christian version, and the interpretation is far fetched indeed, or maybe they preffered the interpretation of the "Christian Muslims"(*)

the verse where it says that Allah killed and not the Muslims, basically this is a mention of Allah's special help in the war against the enemies, where Allah guided the arrows of the Muslims and got angels to help etc,; the verse basically says that only with Allah's help did they achieve victory or casualties on the enemy

Allthough montgommery says christians can adhere to the Quranic verses regarding this, i.e, that gymnastical interpretation of his, yet Muslims and any person who wants to be rightly guided have only one choice:

Ijma' (consensus) on the Beliefs centering around Hadhrat Isaa (Jesus) (alayhis salaam) are structured on the basis of the Qur'aan and Ahaadith-e-Mutawaatirah � the highest category of authentic and reliable Ahaadith. Refuting the belief of Hadhrat Isaa having died, the Qur'aan Majeed declares with the greatest emphasis and unambiguity:

�And (the punishment they received) was because of their claim: �Verily, we have killed the Maseeh, Isaa, the s on o f Maryam who was the Rasool of Allah'. (However), they neither killed him nor crucified him, but they (the Yahood) were thro wn into confusion (regarding Hadhrat Isaa)���..And most certainly they did not kill him. On the contrary, Allah lifted him up to Him. And, Allah is Mighty, The Wise.� (Surah Nisaa, aayat 157) .​

The Qur'aan in this aayat categorically rejects the claim of the death of Nabi Isaa (alayhis salaam). The Yahood had claimed that they had killed Nabi Isaa (alayhis salaam). Vehemently refuting this claim the Qur'aan affirms the ascension of Nabi Isaa into the Heavens. There is absolutely no difference of opinion among the Authorities of Islam on this belief. It is an Ijmaaee Belief that this aayat confirms the physical ascension into the Heavens of Nabi Isaa (alayhis salaam). This is the belief of the Mu'mineen (believers)� the unanimous belief from the earliest time of Islam. Any Mulhid who in his stupidity is so audacious as to deny the fact that these beliefs are based on Ijma ' of the Ummah, should produce his proof in refutation of this claim we are making.

Aayat No.159 of Surah Nisaa' states : �And there will be none of the Ahl -e-Kitaab, but he will believe in him (Isaa) before his Maut (death).�
In the tafseer of this aayat, Hadhrat Abu Hurairah (radhiyallahu anhu) said:

�Nabi (alayhis salaam) said: �Most assuredly, the Son of Maryam will descend (to earth) as a just ruler. Then he will most certainly slay Dajjaal, kill pigs and destroy crosses. And,(at that time) Sajdah (worship) will be exclusively for Allah Rab-bul Aalameen.' Then Abu Hurairah said: If you wish recite(aayat No.159)' He added: �Before the Maut of Isaa. He repeated this thrice.� (Maaariful Qur'aan)

All members of the Ahl-e-Kitaab (people of the book: Jews/Christians). will ultimately accept Imaan (faith) at the hands of Nabi Isaa (alayhis salaam) before his death. This too testifies to the belief of him still being alive. Millions and millions of Ahl-e-Kitaab have not yet believed in Hadhrat Isaa (alayhis salaam) in the way Islam requires belief. This will happen after his Nuzool (descent) from the Heavens.

The Nuzool of Nabi Isaa (alayhis salaam) is further confirmed by aayat 61 of Surah Zukhruf: �Verily he (Nabi Isaa) is certainly a sign for the Hour. Therefore, never ever doubt in it (i.e. the Hour of Qiyaamah) and obey me.�
The Mufassireen commenting on this aayat say that Isaa (alayhis salaam) will be a sign of Qiyaamah (end of the world). This aayat conveys the information of his descen t from Heaven in close proximity to Qiyaamah.. Hadhrat Ibn Abbaas, the eminent Sahaabi who is known as Raeesul Mufassireen, narrated regarding this stat e- ment of Allah Ta'ala : �(It means) the emergence of Isaa (alayhis salaam) before the Day of Qiyaamah.�

The Nuzool of Hadhrat Isaa (alayhis salaam) presupposes him being alive in the Heaven.The unanimous Belief of the Mu'mi-neen is that Nabi Isaa (alayhis salaam) was raised bodily into heaven while he was alive; that he is alive in Heaven; that he will return to earth before Qiyaamah. There is complete unanimity of the People of Islam on these beliefs. Only munaafiqeen (hypocrites) and mulhideen (heretics) deny these unanimous beliefs of the Mu'mineen.

Also declaring that Hadhrat Isaa (alayhis salaam) was not killed and that he was raised up bodily into the Heaven, the Qur'aan states: �O Isaa! I shall cause you to die, and I shall raise you to Me, and I shall exonerate you from the unbelievers�� (Surah Al-Imraan, aayat 55)

There is complete unanimity of the Mufassireen and Authorities of Islam regarding the meaning of this aayat. They all state without any difference that Nabi Isaa (alayhis salaam) was lifted alive and physically into the Heaven. The Authorities of Islam unanimously aver that Allah �will cause Hadhrat Isaa to die� before Qiyaamah after his descent to earth. It is only mulhideen who have taken up the cause of the Qadiani impostor, Mirza Gulam Ahmad. After thirteen centuries of complete unanimity in the beliefs pertaining to Nabi Isaa (alayhis salaam), Mirza, the impostor presented his kufr misinterpretation and opinion of Isaa's death, etc. The mulhideen in our day are all the muqallideen of the dajjaal, Mirza of Qadian.
THE QURAAN


There is no difference of opinion among the Ulema of reports and of Tafsir that `Isa, upon him peace, was raised to heaven with his material body as narrated from Ibn `Abbas by al-Tabari and from Qatada by Ibn Sa`d and is now alive with his body in the first heaven just as Idris is now alive with his body in the fourth although there is divergence concerning the latter, upon our Prophet and them blessings and peace.

Since it matters to "Christian Muslims,"(*) we may add that the physical ascension of `Isa is also the belief of Christians in the near-totality or totality of their sects, and they know no grave nor claim any grave for him anywhere, upon him peace, other than the so-called Holy Sepulcher which they say he vacated after three days.

(*) "Christian Muslims": Purported Muslims who attempt to re-formulate Islam according to Christian beliefs and methodology.
Various Questions Answered by Shaykh Gibril Haddad (sm1)

 

[Ahanu]

There is no difference of opinion among the Ulema of reports and of Tafsir that `Isa, upon him peace, was raised to heaven with his material body

Hi, Abdullah, thank you for your reply.

When Reynolds writes "the reports of the mufassirūn are inconsistent and often contradictory," I think he is referring to the substitution theory, not about the ascension of Jesus.

For example, al-Razi mentions five different versions of the substitution theory:

1) The Jews deliberately crucified another person and lied about it,

2) A man named Titayus was sent by “Judas the chief of the Jews” to kill Jesus, but God caused Titayus to appear like Jesus, and he was crucified instead,

3) The man charged with guarding Jesus was caused to look like Jesus and was
crucified in his place,

4) Jesus asked his twelve disciples for a volunteer, and one man volunteered and was made to look like Jesus and was crucified,

5) A hypocritical disciple who proposed to betray Jesus was caused to look like Jesus and was crucified.

Al-Razi sums up these various opinions as follows:

"These interpretations are mutually contradictory and incompatible with one another. God knows best what the facts are about these matters!"

It should be noted al-Razi rejects the substitution theory:

If it were permissible to to say that God (exalted is he) casts the appearance of one person onto another person, then this would open the door to sophistry. For if I see Zayd, perhaps it is not Zayd at all, but rather the appearance of Zayd has been cast onto this person! In that case neither marriage nor divorce nor property could continue to exist and be trusted. It would also lead to calling into question the idea of factual historical transmission because a report which is historically transmitted can contribute to knowledge only on condition that its ultimate source is something perceptible to the senses. If we allow this kind of confusion to take place in things perceptible to the senses, then it will discredit historical transmission, and that will necessarily call into question all laws. One cannot reply to this objection that such things took place only in the time of the prophets (upon them blessing and peace); for we say that if what you have said is true, then that can only be known by evidence and proof. Anyone who does not know that evidence and that proof cannot assert anything with certainty on the basis of things perceptible to the senses, nor can he depend on any historically transmitted reports. Furthermore, even if in our day prophetic miracles are blocked, the way of karamat [miraculous signs of divine favor] is still open. So the aforementioned possibility is still present in all ages. In sum: opening this door would of necessity discredit factual historical transmission. And discrediting that would of necessity discredit the prophethood of all prophets (upon them blessing and peace). So this branch would of necessity discredit the very roots. And that must be rejected.

Haha. I laughed when I read the following from the above quote: "In that case neither marriage nor divorce nor property could continue to exist and be trusted." Al-Baydawi also critiques the substitution theory. First, he says that, theologically, for deceit to be an attribute of God is problematic:

"Deception [al-makr], insofar as it is (at the root) a ruse which brings harm to another person, cannot be predicated of God (exalted is he), except by way of requital and reciprocity."

Mahmoud Ayoub agrees:

"The substitutionist theory will not do, regardless of its form or purpose. First, it makes a mockery of divine justice and the primordial covenant of God with humanity, to guide human history to its final fulfillment. Would it be in consonance with God’s covenant, his mercy and justice, to deceive humanity for so many centuries? It makes historical Christianity based on a divine deception which was not disclosed until the Qur’an was revealed centuries later."

Second, al-Baydawi doesn't agree with the substitution theory on grammatical grounds by commenting on 4.157 and the phrase shubbiha lahum:

The verb shubbiha is a grammatical predicate referring to the preposition and the object of the preposition, as though it said “confusion befell them between Jesus and the person killed,” or “confusion befell them in the matter.” This accords with the statement of those who say that “No one was killed, but a false rumor arose and spread among the people.”

Other commentators (al-Razi and al-Zamakhshari) make the same grammatical objection.

 

[Abdullah]

indeed there is a different of opinion about exactly who it was on the cross, that youth... or the leader of the enemies that was made to resemble Jesus [pbuh], but them sources are not reliable at all, the one you are getting all this information from; Ismaeli's are considered to be non-Muslims if i remember correctly due to some shirky beliefs they have, and such non-Muslim or heretic sources take bits of partial quotes or distorted quotes and attribute to scholars untruths, thus i really wouldn't pay any attention to such sites

there are some weak [hadiths that are not fully reliable to be authentic due to the relatively weak memmory of the narrator] and some fabricated ones' too, but basically there are two strong opinions amongst the sunni Muslims and they are the one that i have quoted above [that youth] and the other is that the leader of the enemies coming to capture Jesus was made to look like Jesus [pbuh] by Allah and it was he who was crucified

a casual look at the relevent verse shows us that Jesus [pbuh] was not killed, nor was he crucified, thus we can be sure he was not even put on that cross, and the fact that Allah said, it was made to seem to them like that, indicates that someone resembling Jesus [pbuh] was put on that cross; it is a common belief of the three Abrahimic faiths that the soul lives on, and when people say, jesus was killed, they are obviously reffering to his body, and it is that which Allah says did not happen
I think the more reliable report of who it was on the cross is the one of that youth, for that hadith is by ibn Abbas, the cousin of the Prophet [saw] and [iirc] the Prophet [saw] said about him something like that he is the gateway to the Quran, i.e, he will know the proper interpretations of it

also there is a hadith that when the Prophet [saw] returns, drops of water will fall from his hair, this corrosponds with Jesus just having a bath and his hair dribbling with water when he was raised up, thus he will return exactly in the same condition he was raised up

and iether way, if it was the youth or the leader of the enemies on that cross, both of them will be just for Allah to do, for the youth got voluntarily martyred and will earn a great place in heaven, or the leader of the enemies will get punished, and since the people witnessing the crucifixion could only guess that it was iether Jesus [pbuh] or it weren't, then there was no deceiving them iether, for faith is never based on guesses; if they had asked the disciples, i.e the true believers of Jesus [pbuh] they would have known the truth, and the disciples probably did go round telling everyone the truth, but it is only the evil-doers that dont want to listen and who want to concoct their own religion; as can be seen from the reliable reports that the true believers of Jesus [pbuh] soon got wiped out by the deifiers of Jesus [pbuh], hence it is only such evil-doers who wanted to stick to guesses in order to make up their own religion

and it is really ludricous to say that Prophetic miracles will continue, in that case why dont raising the dead continue, why dont a stick turning to snake continue?, thus it is a fallacious argument to say that a one off Prophetic miracle will jepeordise history and reality

and we also know from the Quran that Allah did metamorphosise a group of Jews into apes

ps: the consensus on this shows that all Muslim authorities/exegettes concur that Jesus [pbuh] was not killed and that he was raised alive in body to the heavens, and this infact forms one of the most concrete evidences of all; there is rigorously authenticated evidence in Islam that consensus' are infallible, hence from an Islamic point of view, the evidences leaves no doubt that Jesus [pbuh] was not killed and that he was raised alive in body to the heavens:

The strongest daleel (proof/evidence) for any belief, practice or teaching of Islam is Ijma (consensus). This Daleel is the command of Allah Ta'ala stated in several aayaat of the Qur'aan Majeed.

�Whoever opposes the Rasool after the Hidaayah (Guidance of the Deen) has become manifest, and he follows a path other than the Path of the Mu'mineen, We divert him to that (path of deviation) which he follows. And,We shall cast him into Jahannum (Hell). Indeed, it is an evil abode.� (Qur'aan, Aayat 115, Surah Nisaa') ​

�And follow the Path of him who turns to Me.� ​

The basis of the validity of Imaan is to believe as the Ummah believes, i.e. to subscribe to all the beliefs which the Ummah has acquired from Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) via the agency of the Sahaabah. The Qur'aan says in this regard:

�Among mankind are those who say: �We believe in Allah and the Last Day�, while (in reality) they are not Mu'mineen (Believers)� . (Surah Baqarah, aayat 8)​

�And, when it is said to them: �Believe just as the people (believe)', they say: �What! Shall we believe like the ignoramuses believe?' Behold! Verily, they are the ignoramuses, but they know not.� (Surah Baqarah, aayat 13)
​

The Qur'aan Majeed does not instruct Muslims to follow their personal opinions and understanding of the Qur'aan. It commands us to follow The People, The Mu'mineen. Those who diverge from the Path of the Mu'mineen, the Qur'aan declares unequivocally:

�We shall cast them into Jahannum�. It is abundantly clear from the Qur'aanic aayaat that in order to be among the Mu'mineen, the essential requisite is to �Believe as the People believe.� Thus, any belief, interpretation, idea or view which conflicts with the Beliefs of the Sahaabah who were the very first Wrung in the Ladder of The People to whom the Qur'aan commands obedience, is kufr [unbelief].

Ijma' is the Path of the Mu'mineen from which divergence according to the aforementioned aayat leads to Jahannum. Ijma' is in the category of the Qur'aan Majeed since the Qur'aan commands Muslims to follow the Path of the Mu'mineen. There is no difference of opinion among the Fuqaha and Authorities of Islam on the issue of Ijma being a Hujjat (Proof and Authority) in the category of the Qur'aan. Denial of any belief or teaching evidenced by Ijma' is kufr. This is the unanimous ruling of all Authorities of Islam.

Ijma of the Ummah of The People to whom obedience is commanded in the Qur'aan, has been recognized as Hujjat for the Ahkaam of the Shariah from the very inception of Islam since it is a command of the Qur'aan itself. There is no need to delve fu r ther on this subject in this concise booklet. Only a moron will deny that the Ummah's beliefs pertaining to Hadhrat Isaa (alayhis salaam) are structured on the basis o f Ijma . Inspite of the Mulhid's denial of the validity and truth of these beliefs, he does concede that Isaa (alayhis salaam) being alive is the Belief of this Ummah. Hence, he had no alternative but to concede:

�The belief that Jesus is still alive in heaven is held by both Christians and Sunni Muslims.�

Whoever now denies this Belief denies the validity of Ijma ' and in consequence he has to be prepared to be cast into Jahannum by Allah Ta'ala Who has warned in the Qur'aan Shareef that those who diverge from the Path of the Mu'mineen will be the inmates of Hell-Fire.

IJMA (CONSENSUS OF THE UMMAH)


there is much evidence that the orthodox majority of the Umma is divinely protected from error, such as the sahih hadith related by al-Hakim that "Allah's hand is over the group, and whoever diverges from them diverges to hell" (al-Mustadrak, 1.116).

Would you advise people to study hadiths on their own?


Imam Hakim (1/116) has related a Sahih Hadith from the Prophet (Peace be upon him) in the following words: "My Ummah shall not agree upon error."

Imam al-Tirmidhi (4/2167) reported on the authority of Ibn Umar (Allah be pleased with him) from the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace), who said: "Verily my Ummah would not agree (or he said the Ummah of Muhammad) would not agree upon error and Allah's hand is over the group and whoever dissents from them departs to Hell." (see also Mishkat, 1/173)

 

[Abdullah]

Here is the second opinion; it also shows how some of the spectators just took a guess that it was Jesus [pbuh]:

And for their saying, boastfully, ‘We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, the Messenger of God’, as they claim: in other words, for all of these [reasons] We have punished them. God, exalted be He, says, in repudiating their claim to have killed him: And yet they did not slay him nor did they crucify him, but he, the one slain and crucified, who was an associate of theirs [the Jews], was given the resemblance, of Jesus. In other words, God cast his [Jesus’s] likeness to him and so they thought it was him [Jesus]. And those who disagree concerning him, that is, concerning Jesus, are surely in doubt regarding, the slaying of, him, for some of them said, when they saw the slain man: the face is that of Jesus, but the body is not his, and so it is not he; and others said: no, it is he. They do not have any knowledge of, the slaying of, him, only the pursuit of conjecture (illā ittibā‘a l-zann, is a discontinuous exception) in other words: ‘instead, they follow conjecture regarding him, that which they imagined [they saw]’; and they did not slay him for certain (yaqīnan, a circumstantial qualifier emphasising the denial of the slaying).

Altafsir.com - The Tafsirs - ÇáÊÝÇÓíÑ

 

[Ahanu]

ut them sources are not reliable at all, the one you are getting all this information from; Ismaeli's are considered to be non-Muslims if i remember correctly due to some shirky beliefs they have, and such non-Muslim or heretic sources take bits of partial quotes or distorted quotes and attribute to scholars untruths, thus i really wouldn't pay any attention to such sites

Those were not "Ismaeli" sources, because the first couple of quotes were from Fakhr al-Din al-Razi, a very influential "Persian Sunni Muslim theologian" and philosopher. Also, the second set of quotes came from Abu al-Qasim Mahmud ibn Umar al-Zamakhshari, who is not an "Ismaeli," but he adhered to "Mu'tazilite theological doctrine." Furthermore, I received the information in my post above eslewhere!


I'll be back to respond to the rest.

 

[Ahanu]

and we also know from the Quran that Allah did metamorphosise a group of Jews into apes

Whoa!

 

[Abdullah]

Those were not "Ismaeli" sources, because the first couple of quotes were from Fakhr al-Din al-Razi, a very influential "Persian Sunni Muslim theologian" and philosopher. Also, the second set of quotes came from Abu al-Qasim Mahmud ibn Umar al-Zamakhshari, who is not an "Ismaeli," but he adhered to "Mu'tazilite theological doctrine." Furthermore, I received the information in my post above eslewhere!


I'll be back to respond to the rest.

But weren't it an Ismaili site purporting them scholars said all of that?

 

[Ahanu]

No. I'll give you the source when I get home (because I saved it on my laptop).

 

[Abdullah]

Whoa!

(2.65. And indeed you knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath (i.e. Saturday). We said to them: "Be you monkeys, despised and rejected.'') (66. So We made this punishment an example for those in front of it and those behind it, and a lesson for Al-Muttaqin (the pious.)

This Ayah means, O Jews! Remember that Allah sent His torment on the village that disobeyed Him and broke their pledge and their covenant to observe the sanctity of the Sabbath. They began using deceitful means to avoid honoring the Sabbath by placing nets, ropes and artificial pools of water for the purpose of fishing before the Sabbath. When the fish came in abundance on Saturday as usual, they were caught in the ropes and nets for the rest of Saturday. During the night, the Jews collected the fish after the Sabbath ended. When they did that, Allah changed them from humans into monkeys, the animals having the form closest to humans. Their evil deeds and deceit appeared lawful on the surface, but they were in reality wicked. This is why their punishment was compatible with their crime. This story is explained in detail in Surat Al-A`raf, where Allah said (7:163),

(And ask them (O Muhammad ) about the town that was by the sea; when they transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath (i.e. Saturday): when their fish came to them openly on the Sabbath day, and did not come to them on the day they had no Sabbath. Thus We made a trial of them, for they used to rebel (disobey Allah).)(7:163)

In his Tafsir, Al-`Awfi reported from Ibn `Abbas that he said,

(We said to them: "Be you monkeys, despised and rejected'') means, "Allah changed their bodies into those of monkeys and swines. The young people turned into monkeys while the old people turned into swine.'' Shayban An-Nahwi reported that Qatadah commented on,

(We said to them: "Be you monkeys, despised and rejected''), "These people were turned into howling monkeys with tails, after being men and women.''

Ibn Abi Hatim recorded that Ibn `Abbas said, "Those who violated the sanctity of the Sabbath were turned into monkeys, then they perished without offspring.'' Ad-Dahhak said that Ibn `Abbas said, "Allah turned them into monkeys because of their sins. They only lived on the earth for three days, for no transformed person ever lives more than three days. They did not eat, drink or have offspring. Allah transformed their shapes into monkeys, and He does what He wills, with whom He wills and He changes the shape of whomever He wills. On the other hand, Allah created the monkeys, swines and the rest of the creation in the six days (of creation) that He mentioned in His Book.''

Allah's statement,

(So We made this punishment an example) means, Allah made the people of this village, who violated the sanctity of the Sabbath,

(an example) via the way they were punished. Similarly, Allah said about Pharaoh,

(So Allah, seized him with punishing example for his last and first transgression) (79:25). nAllah's statement,

(for those in front of it and those behind it) meaning, for the other villages. Ibn `Abbas commented, "Meaning, `We made this village an example for the villages around it by the manner in which We punished its people.''' Similarly, Allah said,

(And indeed We have destroyed towns (populations) round about you, and We have (repeatedly) shown (them) the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) in various ways that they might return (to the truth and believe in the Oneness of Allah ـ Islamic Monotheism)).(46:27)
Therefore, Allah made them an example for those who lived during their time as well as a reminder for those to come, by preserving their story. This is why Allah said,

(and a lesson for Al-Muttaqin (the pious)), meaning, a reminder. This Ayah means, "The torment and punishment that this village suffered was a result of indulging in Allah's prohibitions and their deceit. Hence, those who have Taqwa should be aware of their evil behavior, so that what occurred to this village does not befall them as well.'' Also, Imam Abu `Abdullah bin Battah reported that Abu Hurayrah said that the Messenger of Allah said,

(Do not commit what the Jews committed, breaching what Allah has forbidden, by resorting to the lowest types of deceit.)
This Hadith has a good (Jayid) chain of narration. Allah knows best.

Tafsir Ibn Kathir - Quran Tafsir - The Monkeys and Swine that exist now are not the Descendants of Those that were transformed