Did Jesus Die?

Abdullah, please understand, there is no creator or creation, it is a process of creativity stemming out of love. Mind assumes there must be a beginning, and thus there must be an end, it is not so. When you bring in a beginning, now you need to say what has started it, and you have to explain how it will end if you say it will. It looks logical, but understand that logic always chooses a side - anything can be argued through logic and seemingly proven if there is no requirement of proof.

Life is a whole, never choose because then you will be against the other, now your very attempt to squish the enemy as you see it creates evil. You have convinced yourself of a certain thing, and now you are willing to stake everything on it, and you will do all manner of hateful things simply to prove your stance. God is omnipotent, the Hindu's have a good word to understand reality, they call it a leela. It means a play, a drama, have fun with it, but be mindful of its undercurrent of love. Never swim against love, never fight with love, but love is never logical, it is almost an insanity, yet it is the only thing that matters. Love needs both sides to be really alive, but all idealism results in something absolutely monotonous, love can never be monotonous, otherwise it simply fades and dies - for me, this must be what the prophets are talking about when they see the future, they are being warned that upon perfection there is nothing more to do, everything will simply fall apart.

It does not mean be a sinner, do not misunderstand me, it simply means do not choose - be guided by your heart, not your head. Your heart knows the way home, man only becomes lost because his mind confuses him.
 
Why do I say he is not a Sufi, though?

It is because his words are too logical, to scholarly... this is never the case with a Sufi, look at Rumi - the man is mad, that is his very beauty. No Sufi has ever been logical, can never write in prose, their very nature is poetic because they have experienced something beyond mind. It is simply that it cannot be said with logic, not that they have chosen to express in poetry. You have to use analogies because truth cannot be uttered directly, any attempt to try is just false.

Yet, in reality he is still saying the truth, he is saying Allah is the only Being. It means we all have a purpose, a role to play here, yet still there is no separation in reality. God is playing all the roles, God is the director, and God is the very set. All things are subject to birth and death, all things are both existing and not existing, only God is the Whole, the omnipresent, the absolute. This is all meaningless though, encounter yourself, words can only point - you cannot become a Ph.D in holiness, you can only know wholeness, you can only come home. You will have to drop your ego though, all that holds up your separation, all that defines your "I"... and that is the true surrender, the surrender of "I".

Mind will protest, it will fight, but this is the real Jihad, mind is the real Satan, do not permit mind to win - as soon as mind is defeated, God is there before you. This is not an anecdote, this is my personal experience, when you allow yourself to dissolve your limited self into truth, you realize what has always been the case: you are the Whole, you are the Truth... Ana al-Haqq
 
When one clings onto this self or string of experiences as the truth, one fails to see beyond the immediate. It, INHO, perhaps better to approach this dialoguing with a "bicameral mind", an attitude of Ich und Du -- a dance, a relationship. We can discuss the fundamentals from each perspective (Tibetan, Muslim, Christian ....) but realize that the Du may not see it that way. Discuss but do not always strive to have the last word, the final say, the ultimate argument.

My G!d does not care if I express H!r nature in an Abrahamic or Taoist perspective. The beyond is beyond that. So why cannot we share the experiences and the essence without the (seemingly inevitable) "it must be like this because I say so"?

I just find it fascinating that someone totally outside of Islam would characterize the reality of the Sufi experience or the reality of the Quran (it works the other way, too, to see Muslims dismiss the Tao or the Bible).

Discuss the possibilities, the potentialities while repeating your Name of G!ddess within; after all, what another says is really of no import—one should be secure within oneself dancing with their own divine.

As the Greek sage said: “The condition and characteristic of a philosopher is, that he expects all hurt and benefit from himself. The marks of a proficient are, that he censures no one, praises no one, blames no one, accuses no one, says nothing concerning himself as being anybody, or knowing anything: when he is, in any instance, hindered or restrained, he accuses himself; and, if he is praised, he secretly laughs at the person who praises him; and, if he is censured, he makes no defense.” (Sorry for the paternalism, but the Greeks were like that, you know.)
 
radarmark to the rescue again! :); thank you radarmark, your indeed right that discussions should be far more amiable and 'dance like' [tango?] rather than 'I am right you and wrong'


Lunitik said:
Your alternative for me is far worse, no matter how great paradise is, if you have to spent the rest of time there it will eventually become tedious and boring.
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Lunitik, the Garden of Paradise is such that no person will ever feel anything but happiness and bliss in it; feelings such as boredoms and tediousness wont exist in it, for it is a place where the righteous shall reap there reward, and just as Allah said, it will be a place where all wishes and desires ae fullfilled and come true

the garden of Paradise will be not like a paradise garden of this world; we have descriptions such as rivers of nectars, houses made of bricks of gold and silver, every male will remain aged 33 forever and females the same and their beuty and virility will be much higher; people of Paradise will be 90 feet tall too [same height as Adam was, and the age, same as Jesus when he left the earth] and the last Muslim out of the fire [i.e, one with the least good deeds] will get a garden as large as ten worlds put together, and those who obey ALlah on earth will get a garden the breadth of the whole of the heavens [space] and of the earths
[planets], so just imagine how big each garden will be;

there will be trees in them gardens which if a horse ran for a hundred years, or some for five hundred years, it will not be able to pass it's shadow; birds will fly in the sky, a person will think about eating it, it will appear before him roasted on a plate, thereafter [after eating] it's bones will get back together, bird will come alive and fly away; there will be flying horses etc, etc, but all of this is just said to be just a taster of the reality and the reality is far far better; infact unimaginably better

and on top of all that, ALlah says there is that which he has kept for us in heaven that which the eye has never seen, ears have never heard of, and minds which have never even thought of'; we just have to see it to find out what it is!!! :):):)

Muttaqun OnLine - Paradise (Heaven): According to Quran and Sunnah
 
True Gabriel said:
IMO, the Quran is full of generalization and lacking in specifics. An example is the Ishmael-Isaac story. Muslims claim that Ishmael was the one that was offer for sacrifice even though no name was mention it only mention "son". The Bible on the other hand is very specific it mention the name Isaac.
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Good point Gabriel

The Quran does also mention that along with the Quran, an external interpretation [that fills in the details in between] has been revealed to Prophet Muhammad [saw] alongside the Quran, thus together they are very specific in all neccessary and a lot of historical details

Peace :)
 
Lunitik said:
no matter how great paradise is, if you have to spent the rest of time there it will eventually become tedious and boring
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I don't believe in paradise. I actually think that the better life becomes, the less satisfied people become. Living conditions are pretty high in the West, but people don't give much to charity because they're always worried about what their next-door neighbour has. Bigger is never big enough. Better is never good enough.

To me, heaven isn't a paradise. Heaven is a place where people give up chasing after the next best thing. The defining characteristic of heaven is not higher living conditions, but an attitude of contentment. I actually think the people in heaven are quite poor. But the important thing is that they're happy. They don't worry about what their next-door neighbour has and they're less selfish, indulgent and hedonistic.
 
Saltmeister said:
I don't believe in paradise. I actually think that the better life becomes, the less satisfied people become. Living conditions are pretty high in the West, but people don't give much to charity because they're always worried about what their next-door neighbour has. Bigger is never big enough. Better is never good enough.

To me, heaven isn't a paradise. Heaven is a place where people give up chasing after the next best thing. The defining characteristic of heaven is not higher living conditions, but an attitude of contentment. I actually think the people in heaven are quite poor. But the important thing is that they're happy. They don't worry about what their next-door neighbour has and they're less selfish, indulgent and hedonistic.
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You seriously do not believe in paradise. People spend their whole lives chasing paradise here never really catching it and never being satisfied. You get glimpses and moments of it but you do not life in a perpetual state of it. Wouldnt you like to live in that state forever. It would not be about the chase but about living it.
 
Anything which take birth in timeframe will die in timeframe. It is existantial fundamental. If jesus never died means he never born.

Does jesus needs to be judged by God?? Does god do not believe on his own son? You muslim has wastage of phylosphy, childish. Western religion has highest thinking as Ethic which is a communal,social phenomenon. Ethic has nothing to do with dhamma/dharma. Dhamma is indivisual phenomenon and accepting the whole existance without categrising in acceptables and nonacceptables.

www.royalmonk.in
 
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