Whether or not that were someone's objective or expectation, the activity sounds more willfully active than 'it' being passive. Expectation is often an issue.
Former atheist, turned deist
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ashvell
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Hey Keith! Were you once known as atheist keith? My name is Ashley (I go by ashvell on many forums. I am a Christian, and I want to tell you something very important. I know God, and He knows you and cares about you so much. He has continually told me to pray for you. Keith, you have to believe me that Jesus Christ loves you. His Holy Spirit is tugging at your heart to turn to Him. Please do that tonight!
keithzworld
Agnostic
That's not in the least important Ashley.
The fact of the matter is after much searching and a lack of evidence finding, I have returned to my atheist worldview. I don't claim to know that God exists or not (like you so arrogantly assume he does). There is no evidence to prove such a thing. I will say this I am not persuaded by such a belief.
I posted this thread a long time ago during a time when I was having a lasp of doubting my own position and worldview. After giving myself the full 360 I have arrived back at atheism.
And please for the love of human decency stop telling people what to believe. Because even when I was open to Deism I would never consider Christianity. The religion is curuppt, full of fallacies and holes. If Jesus existed at all he was no different from any other cult leader; sincere but deluded.
I feel sorry for you Ash I really do. This religion of your has really deluded your head big time. I would recommend questioning everything a lot more than you have been instead of taking things at face value.
And understand this you may believe in Jesus or God, but you most certainty don't know they exist for a fact. Don't confuse fact with belief.
Have a wonderful day
IowaGuy
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Hi Keith, do you consider yourself agnostic (as in your user title) or atheist? There is a big difference, IMHO.
I am curious to hear more about your journey from atheist to deist back to atheist if you'd be willing to share any details and revelations (or lack thereof).
I am a fellow agnostic, who made the transition from devout Southern Baptist after 20 years of truth-searching. I try to keep an open mind and in the last decade have incorporated certain parts of Buddhism along with some deist-ish pantheist ideas into my personal belief system.
I think this can be said about most Organized Traditions, and can also be said about evolution (the anti-bible evidence for many atheist proponents). Because, ultimately, we are all human, including the leaders and members of these traditions and the leading proponents of evolution. Your fallacies and holes might be their evidence, and vice versa.
Could the same be said for Richard Dawkins?
Peace,
Iowa Guy
Ben Masada
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The word is probability. Although you have discovered the light at the end of the tunel, you still can't prove God's existence for lack of enough evidences. But you can believe in God on the basis of the concept of probability. That's the only way to escape King David's charges of fools in Psalm 14:1 on those who declare in their hearts to be sure that God does not exist. Atheists don't like that concept because of their fear that it will neutralize the weapons they use to fight against the idea of God. Congratulations anyways; even Agnosticism would be a better choice than Atheism. Even Einstein considered Atheism a mental disorder in other words.
Ben
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Hi Keith,
I’m new to the forum as well. I would encourage you to look into the intelligent design movement. It argues that the world of biology presents us with cases of imposed design, and that good science ought to be free to talk about them. An example is Michael Behe’s Darwin’s Black Box. He wrote about irreducible complexity that is we find complex systems in the biological world that need a minimum number of working parts already in place before the whole system works. One example that he mentions is the flagellum that certain bacteria use for swimming around. It has a rotary engine, paddle, rotor, and a motor. Each of these must be in place and doing its part for the system to function at all. This presents a difficult problem to explain by using Darwinists terms since it is hard to explain the gradual development of the individual parts. Behe argues that this points to a designer. Another example of design would be the very origin of life itself and also the way DNA works as a message bearing medium.
The God of the gaps problem comes when we say that a gap must be due to some special activity of God, but then science comes to understand the natural mechanism and it seems that God has been crowded out of his universe. It’s even worse if people base their belief in God on these gaps. Wouldn’t it be better to take by faith that God is involved in every natural event, and leave the how to the scientists?
Some have said that intelligent design is just a God of the gaps. Which I would say that there are gaps and then there are gaps. By that I mean that some gaps are due to our ignorance and other gaps are due to the properties of the things themselves. There is no question about whether we are rational when we declare imposed design when we see Stonehenge.
Keith I would also encourage you to look into the claims of Jesus Christ. Not only does the historical recorded speak to the truth of his life, death, and resurrection but also the testimony of millions upon millions of Christians transformed for the better.
I’m new to the forum as well. I would encourage you to look into the intelligent design movement. It argues that the world of biology presents us with cases of imposed design, and that good science ought to be free to talk about them. An example is Michael Behe’s Darwin’s Black Box. He wrote about irreducible complexity that is we find complex systems in the biological world that need a minimum number of working parts already in place before the whole system works. One example that he mentions is the flagellum that certain bacteria use for swimming around. It has a rotary engine, paddle, rotor, and a motor. Each of these must be in place and doing its part for the system to function at all. This presents a difficult problem to explain by using Darwinists terms since it is hard to explain the gradual development of the individual parts. Behe argues that this points to a designer. Another example of design would be the very origin of life itself and also the way DNA works as a message bearing medium.
The God of the gaps problem comes when we say that a gap must be due to some special activity of God, but then science comes to understand the natural mechanism and it seems that God has been crowded out of his universe. It’s even worse if people base their belief in God on these gaps. Wouldn’t it be better to take by faith that God is involved in every natural event, and leave the how to the scientists?
Some have said that intelligent design is just a God of the gaps. Which I would say that there are gaps and then there are gaps. By that I mean that some gaps are due to our ignorance and other gaps are due to the properties of the things themselves. There is no question about whether we are rational when we declare imposed design when we see Stonehenge.
Keith I would also encourage you to look into the claims of Jesus Christ. Not only does the historical recorded speak to the truth of his life, death, and resurrection but also the testimony of millions upon millions of Christians transformed for the better.
rangerzfan
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I would like to ask you a question, Keith. I am glad that you understood that intelligent design is the only possible explanation for the universe. However, do you really believe it is better to be a deist rather than an atheist? Either belief leaves you with a human being that has no purpose, no point for existing. Do you think that God would create a universe and an earth in which we inhabit if He did not have a purpose in mind?
I have heard that, in order to explain Deism, one should compare God to a watchmaker. He simply puts it together, turns it on, and lets it run its course. But even this comparison does not accurately describe Deism. Doesn't the watchmaker constantly look at his watch in order to determine the time? If it is not ticking, then he attempts to find out the problem, doesn't he? If it needs a new battery, he replaces the battery. If it is broken, then he fixes it.
The truth is, God did create us with a purpose, to honor and glorify Him (Genesis 2). But man chose to make his own decisions and rebelled against God, thereby bringing sin into the world (Genesis 3). Man lost his relationship with God because God is holy and cannot tolerate sin. But because He loved man so much, He sent His Son, Jesus Christ, who did not commit sin while on the earth, to take on our sin and die in our place, thus paying the penalty that sin brings upon everyone. Jesus came back to life three days later, conquering death once and for all. The Bible teaches that those who will place their trust in Jesus and in what He did for them will not have to pay the penalty for their sins (death/separation from God), but will have eternal life with Him in Heaven, after their physical death. When a person does this, God puts His Spirit in them, allowing them to have relationship with Him again and to honor and glorify Him as we were created to do. This doesn't mean we become perfect, but we do become more and more like Him when we study His Word and learn more about Him. He has done this for me, and He can do this for anyone who will believe in His Son, Jesus Christ (John 3:16). It's pretty cool to live life with a purpose, don't you think?
I have heard that, in order to explain Deism, one should compare God to a watchmaker. He simply puts it together, turns it on, and lets it run its course. But even this comparison does not accurately describe Deism. Doesn't the watchmaker constantly look at his watch in order to determine the time? If it is not ticking, then he attempts to find out the problem, doesn't he? If it needs a new battery, he replaces the battery. If it is broken, then he fixes it.
The truth is, God did create us with a purpose, to honor and glorify Him (Genesis 2). But man chose to make his own decisions and rebelled against God, thereby bringing sin into the world (Genesis 3). Man lost his relationship with God because God is holy and cannot tolerate sin. But because He loved man so much, He sent His Son, Jesus Christ, who did not commit sin while on the earth, to take on our sin and die in our place, thus paying the penalty that sin brings upon everyone. Jesus came back to life three days later, conquering death once and for all. The Bible teaches that those who will place their trust in Jesus and in what He did for them will not have to pay the penalty for their sins (death/separation from God), but will have eternal life with Him in Heaven, after their physical death. When a person does this, God puts His Spirit in them, allowing them to have relationship with Him again and to honor and glorify Him as we were created to do. This doesn't mean we become perfect, but we do become more and more like Him when we study His Word and learn more about Him. He has done this for me, and He can do this for anyone who will believe in His Son, Jesus Christ (John 3:16). It's pretty cool to live life with a purpose, don't you think?