What it means to be a spiritual person?

Kenneth

Established Member
Messages
35
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Philosophy was derived from the Greek word “philosophia” which means "love of wisdom". Since then people have coined the name "philosophy" to express views on the wisdom of various aspects of human living like politics, religious views, etc.

But the word "spirituality" is much much higher. Philosophy is subjective. Spirituality is beyond Ego or personal views. It is not a subject of just mankind. It encompasses the whole of life - man, women, our soul, animals, the earth, the sun, the planets and all other things that we are yet to know and the numerous ways in which each interact with the other, controlled by that Vast wholeness or GOD.

So, what it means to be a spiritual person? I would like to get views on the subject before I give my views.
 
Hello Kenneth,

It has been my experience that after spending years in pursuit of spiritual goals, meditating, praying, contemplation, and general seeking one will become completely ordinary.
If you think about it, the universe is exactly what it is, and when we begin a spiritual journey there is always something to get and something to leave behind.
Perhaps spirituality then if done correctly should bring you back to the place you started from.
I believe a poem by TS Eliot addresses this experience.

An old Zen story also illustrates this,

Once there was an old hermit who by all accounts was a very holy person. During his prayers and meditations birds would alight on his arms and shoulders to be near such holiness.
One day the old hermit attained enlightenment, and the birds never returned.
 
very deep Pal........ nice.

I dont know what its like to be a spiritual person. I try to be a good person etc, and appreciate nature and God. I think its either a simple thing that a complicated person like me cannot fathom ...... or is a very complicated thing that someone as simple as myself could only try to attain.

Love the Grey
 
I believe a poem by TS Eliot addresses this experience.

Maybe Eliot appreciated Wittgenstein...

"The place I really have to get to is a place I must already be at now."

s.
 
I wouldn't say spirituality is beyond opinion. Everything is subjective to some point. Immanuel Kant has written much about reasoning.
There is a good story that tells of Buddha leading several blind men to an elephant. Buddha then asked which each blind man thought was in front of him.
One grabs the ear and remarks: "This is a leather apron! This must be the home of an honourable butcher who feeds many people! A great man he must be; we should revere him!"
Another grasps the elephant's trunk and exclaims: "No, this is the root of a great tree that must have been here since the dawn of time! We should all praise this ancient tree of much wisdom!"
Another feels the elephant's leg and cries: "No this is pillar of what must be an astounding temple! Such strength it has! It must support a giant shrine which we must worship!"
And so on...
Only the Buddha who cares not for what he wants to see or what he doesn't want to see actually realises that it is nothing more than a simple elephant!!
The story goes something like that anyway i can't remember it exactly.
 
Hello Kenneth,

It has been my experience that after spending years in pursuit of spiritual goals, meditating, praying, contemplation, and general seeking one will become completely ordinary.
If you think about it, the universe is exactly what it is, and when we begin a spiritual journey there is always something to get and something to leave behind.
Perhaps spirituality then if done correctly should bring you back to the place you started from.

This is my experience as well, Mark.

I would define "spirituality" simply as that which edifies the spirit. In that sense I find Paul's words about dwelling consciously on that which is lovely, true, and of good report, etc. quite profound. But the grit and gristle of life is also worthy of contemplation. I need to feel the pain, sorrow, sense of loss, and regret as well. Without that I have no sense of empathy or acceptance. I have to live in the middle of it all. The only way to stay high is to invent compensating mechanisms to block out the lows. I've tried that, but I found out that it fractures me, and leaves me dependent on artificial control mechanisms and an imaginary mythology of self.

It's interesting how cultural programming is designed to foster a dualism of hedonistic consumption compensated for with guilt and a sense of a need for redemption. This supports an odd dynamic which blends the otherwise opposing forces of consumerism and moral control and sets up a rather schizophrenic, or bipolar set of behavior drivers which makes it ever so hard to get to a place of meaning and moderation. I struggled with this for the longest time, desiring both holiness and pleasure, and feeling like a ping pong ball being batted back and forth between the extremes. It took a long time to realize that the system is set up this way on purpose to create the essential guilt that drives demand for consumption on one end, and politics and religion on the compensating end.

Chris
 
Tolle said something to the effect of, "If you are looking to the future for enlightenment, you'll never find it, it can only be found in the now"

Our Seattle gal inquires as if it is possible to be non-spiritual?

Which to me indicates that if you believe...you are a spiritual being.

(hmmm does non belief make a being non spiritual?)

or does belief really make all beings spiritual???

Does this line of inquiry just tackle the age old unanswerable question?

And does the line of inquiry change by contemplating what is a spiritual being vs. spiritual person?
 
This is my experience as well, Mark.

I would define "spirituality" simply as that which edifies the spirit. In that sense I find Paul's words about dwelling consciously on that which is lovely, true, and of good report, etc. quite profound. But the grit and gristle of life is also worthy of contemplation. I need to feel the pain, sorrow, sense of loss, and regret as well. Without that I have no sense of empathy or acceptance. I have to live in the middle of it all. The only way to stay high is to invent compensating mechanisms to block out the lows. I've tried that, but I found out that it fractures me, and leaves me dependent on artificial control mechanisms and an imaginary mythology of self.


Chris

Sometimes I wonder if it is all just a story, or to be more exact billions of stories. And each story must have a complex and twisty plot with heroes and villains, success and failure, not to mention the love interest.
Remember the eight worldly concerns taught in Buddhism? Pretty much an outline for a great novel.
So we live out the story and if enlightenment wakes us up from our slumber we have only Puck's soliloquy for solace.
 
Is that even possible? :eek:
The word 'spiritual' looks ambiguous. Is it:

1. Believing that there is a spirit.
2. Seeing the activity of spirits.
3. Believing a spirit.
4. Interacting with a spirit (knowingly or not).
5. Receiving from a spirit (knowingly or not).
6. Being a spirit (knowingly or not).
7. Worshipping in spirit (knowingly or not).
8. Considering animals to have spirits.
9. Considering objects to retain spirits.
10. Considering an emotion or thought to be a spirit.
11. Considering a behavior to be a spirit.
12. Considering a path to be a spirit.
... etc ...

Depending on the definition, I imagine it is possible to be non-spiritual. If it is every definition, I imagine not. That wouldn't stop someone from claiming to be non-spiritual.
 
So, what it means to be a spiritual person? I would like to get views on the subject before I give my views.

A person who conscientiously tries to live according to their highest spiritual values can be said as a spiritual person. It can also be said that spiritual means to seek truth and meaning for the life and to live your best according to the principles that you discover within you.

 
From the traditional perspective, it depends what you mean by 'spiritual' — d'you mean the spirit of one's psyche, or the Spirit as in the Divine.

From the POV of the Christian Tradition, the concept is somewhat overworked — what is Baptism? what is Eucharist? How can a Christian not be?

A question arises when one assumes 'spiritual' to be 'experiential', especially in the Christian Tradition, when the works of the great mystics — Dionysius the pseudoAreopagite, The Cloud of Unknowing, Meister Eckhart, etc, speak against the whole idea of thinking in terms of 'spirituality' as a sought experience.

It's worth noting the term itself did not come into common usage until the 17th century.

God bless,

Thomas
 
Hi Kenneth,

I would say that being spiritual is simply the pursuit of some form of spirituality, by which I mean trying to understand and employ moral and ethical values, often held together in some sort of religious structure.

This pursuit usually brings the person round in a full circle back to where they were before they set off on there spiritual quest, but with a better understand of it and a knowledge that there is only the now that exists.

When Zen Buddhists meditate on Emptiness, it is said that, they reach three levels of understanding:

1: Form is Emptiness and Emptiness is Form.
(All is one)

2: There is no Form, There is no Emptiness.
(An understanding beyond words)

3: Form is Form and Emptiness is Emptiness.
(The sky is blue, the grass is green)

The point here being that, in their understanding, they come full circle back to the now and understand things to be as they are, without prejudice, bias or opinion. Then they can be one with the universe and just be. This, I think, is what being a spiritual person is all about, or at least it the goal that most spiritual people set for themselves. A way of stripping away all the distractions and deliberate attempts by advertisers and media to keep us unhappy with ourselves and wanting more.

To be a spiritual person, I would say, is also an attempt to improve ones mind. It is a way of being that allows for self improvement from within.

What does it mean to be a non-spiritual person?

To be a non-spiritual person is simply a person that does not pursue a spiritual life. It is a conscious choice not to do this, just as it is a conscious choice to pursue this kind of life.

It does not matter which route you take on your spiritual journey or what religion or philosophy you follow, because we each walk our own paths and we each have our own spirituality to find within ourselves, because this is the only place we can find it. We all have within us a spirituality waiting to be discovered, or as the Buddha said, we all have a Buddha nature, which we can see once we remove the self.

TU:D
 
From the traditional perspective, it depends what you mean by 'spiritual' — d'you mean the spirit of one's psyche, or the Spirit as in the Divine.

From the POV of the Christian Tradition, the concept is somewhat overworked — what is Baptism? what is Eucharist? How can a Christian not be?

A question arises when one assumes 'spiritual' to be 'experiential', especially in the Christian Tradition, when the works of the great mystics — Dionysius the pseudoAreopagite, The Cloud of Unknowing, Meister Eckhart, etc, speak against the whole idea of thinking in terms of 'spirituality' as a sought experience.

It's worth noting the term itself did not come into common usage until the 17th century.

God bless,

Thomas

Interesting distinction, but perhaps one is the demi-form of the other? I often hear people speak of having their "spirit renewed" from attending services. When I stand on the first tee box in the early morning, listening to the birds stirring, watching the sun rise in the sky, and reveling in the calm coolness, I feel my spirit renewed. I don't think that these things are much different.

Chris
 
Hi Chris –
Interesting distinction, but perhaps one is the demi-form of the other?
I agree — I think this is the middle ground, or the 'human margin'.

I think there is a purely natural human spirit, and a purely supernatural divine spirit, and a demi-form where the two meet and mingle, to a greater or lesser degree.

God bless,

Thomas
 
When I stand on the first tee box in the early morning, listening to the birds stirring, watching the sun rise in the sky, and reveling in the calm coolness, I feel my spirit renewed. I don't think that these things are much different.

Chris
I hear ya... but don't need the tee box.

A charitable person.

God bless,

Thomas
All charitable people? Many an oger, has been charitable...

What did Jesus say? Even the tax man loves his children (something to that effect)

What you do to the least.... I think that more defines it.
 
All charitable people? Many an oger, has been charitable...
One doesn't have to be perfect to be a spiritual person. The story of the tanner of Alexandria is a good one.

What did Jesus say? Even the tax man loves his children (something to that effect)
I don't know ... I know he called a taxman to be His disciple, and stayed in the house of a publican. Jesus doesn't judge by appearances.

"By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, if you have love one for another." John 13:35.

What you do to the least.... I think that more defines it.
Cuts both ways tho ... doesn't define a spiritual person.

God bless,

Thomas
 
So Andrew Carnegie....philanthropist, charitable as it gets....
1889: Johnstown Flood

Carnegie was one of more than 50 members of the South Fork Fishing and Hunting Club, which was blamed for the Johnstown Flood that killed 2,209 people in 1889.
At the suggestion of his friend Benjamin Ruff, Carnegie's partner Henry Clay Frick had formed the exclusive South Fork Fishing and Hunting Club high above Johnstown, Pennsylvania. The charter members of the South Fork Fishing and Hunting Club were: Benjamin Ruff; T. H. Sweat; Charles J. Clarke; Thomas Clark; Walter F. Fundenberg; Howard Hartley; Henry C. Yeager; J. B. White; Henry Clay Frick; E. A. Myers; C. C. Hussey; D. R. Ewer; C. A. Carpenter; W. L. Dunn; W. L. McClintock; and A. V. Holmes.
The sixty-odd club members were the leading business tycoons of Western Pennsylvania and included among their number Frick's best friend, Andrew Mellon, his attorneys Philander Knox and James Hay Reed, as well as Frick's business partner Andrew Carnegie. High above the city, near the small town of South Fork, the South Fork Dam was originally built between 1838 and 1853 by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania as part of a canal system to be used as a reservoir for a canal basin in Johnstown. With the coming-of-age of railroads superseding canal barge transport, the lake was abandoned by the Commonwealth, sold to the Pennsylvania Railroad, and sold again to private interests and eventually came to be owned by the South Fork Fishing and Hunting Club in 1881. Less than 20 miles downstream from the dam sat the city of Johnstown, and Carnegie Steel's chief competitor (from whom Carnegie had hired away steelmaking expert Bill Jones), the Cambria Iron and Steel Company, which boasted the world's largest annual steel production.
Poor maintenance, a reduction in height, and unusually high snowmelt and heavy spring rains combined to cause the dam to give way on May 31, 1889 resulting in twenty million tons of water to sweep down the valley causing the Johnstown Flood. When word of the dam's failure was telegraphed to Pittsburgh, Frick and other members of the South Fork Fishing and Hunting Club gathered to form the Pittsburgh Relief Committee for assistance to the flood victims as well as determining never to speak publicly about the club or the flood. This strategy was a success, and Knox and Reed were able to fend off all lawsuits that would have placed blame upon the club's members.
Although Cambria Iron and Steel's facilities were heavily damaged by the flood, they returned to full production within a year and a half. By that time, Carnegie's steel production had outstripped Cambria's. After the flood, Carnegie built Johnstown a new library to replace the one built by Cambria's chief legal counsel Cyrus Elder, which was destroyed in the flood. The Carnegie-donated library is now owned by the Johnstown Area Heritage Association, and houses the Flood Museum.
1892: Homestead Strike


The Homestead Strike


The Homestead Strike was a bloody labor confrontation lasting 143 days in 1892, one of the most serious in U.S. history. The conflict was centered on Carnegie Steel's main plant in Homestead, Pennsylvania, and grew out of a dispute between the National Amalgamated Association of Iron and Steel Workers of the United States and the Carnegie Steel Company.
Carnegie left on a trip to Scotland before the unrest peaked. In doing so, Carnegie left mediation of the dispute in the hands of his associate and partner Henry Clay Frick. Frick was well known in industrial circles for maintaining staunch anti-union sensibilities.
After a recent increase in profits by 60%, the company refused to raise worker's pay by more than 30%. When some of the workers demanded the full 60%, management locked the union out. Workers considered the stoppage a "lockout" by management and not a "strike" by workers. As such, the workers would have been well within their rights to protest, and subsequent government action would have been a set of criminal procedures designed to crush what was seen as a pivotal demonstration of the growing labor rights movement, strongly opposed by management. Frick brought in thousands of strikebreakers to work the steel mills and Pinkerton agents to safeguard them.
On 6 July, the arrival of a force of 300 Pinkerton agents from New York City and Chicago resulted in a fight in which 10 men—seven strikers and three Pinkertons—were killed and hundreds were injured. Pennsylvania Governor Robert Pattison ordered two brigades of state militia to the strike site. Then, allegedly in response to the fight between the striking workers and the Pinkertons, anarchist Alexander Berkman shot at Frick in an attempted assassination, wounding Frick. While not directly connected to the strike, Berkman was tied in for the assassination attempt. According to Berkman, "...with the elimination of Frick, responsibility for Homestead conditions would rest with Carnegie."[31][32] Afterwards, the company successfully resumed operations with non-union immigrant employees in place of the Homestead plant workers, and Carnegie returned to the United States. However, Carnegie's reputation was permanently damaged by the Homestead events.

Spiritual is completely seperate from physical actions?
 
Back
Top