The Meaning of Life

[Archimysticus]

As long as we search for the meaning of life with our minds, we will not find it. The meaning of life is not an explicandum, something in need of clarification. It is not something I'll come up with one day to tell you all about it. When we could force the famous statue of Rodin to speak to us, it surely would have a lot of interesting things to say, but it would not succeed in informing us about the meaning of life, though it doesn't do much else than thinking.

This is because the word 'meaning' and the word 'life' aren't exclusively compatible. Not that they contradict one another, but they are more like apples and pears. Both fruit, but of a different kind. Life is so much more than meaning. Meaning is solid, vast, unmovable. But life is changing, always new, floating by, here and there. Life offers new horizons, new meanings every day. There will never come a moment for me to say: 'Now I know the meaning of it all!'

This is not to say that life is meaningless, that there is nothing meaningful to say about life. It only means that all our meanings are tentative, proviso, ad hoc explications for the moment. Maybe life will offer us a complete new meaning the next morning.

What has worked for me well is to give up searching for the meaning of life. I have learned to sink back into life itself, not to resist it, not to force some meaning out of it. It is too huge for my small, fallible brain to make some sense out of it.

The mystical paradox here is that by giving up all search for the meaning of life, the deepest meaning presents itself of its own accord. Not knowing I know everything.

Jan
mysticism.nl

 

[seattlegal]

LOL! Why do you think Rodin had The Thinker on top of his Gates of Hell sculpture?

 

[Archimysticus]

I didn't know that, Seattlegal. Thanks for the info.

 

[China Cat Sunflower]

As long as we search for the meaning of life with our minds, we will not find it. The meaning of life is not an explicandum, something in need of clarification. It is not something I'll come up with one day to tell you all about it. When we could force the famous statue of Rodin to speak to us, it surely would have a lot of interesting things to say, but it would not succeed in informing us about the meaning of life, though it doesn't do much else than thinking.

This is because the word 'meaning' and the word 'life' aren't exclusively compatible. Not that they contradict one another, but they are more like apples and pears. Both fruit, but of a different kind. Life is so much more than meaning. Meaning is solid, vast, unmovable. But life is changing, always new, floating by, here and there. Life offers new horizons, new meanings every day. There will never come a moment for me to say: 'Now I know the meaning of it all!'

This is not to say that life is meaningless, that there is nothing meaningful to say about life. It only means that all our meanings are tentative, proviso, ad hoc explications for the moment. Maybe life will offer us a complete new meaning the next morning.

What has worked for me well is to give up searching for the meaning of life. I have learned to sink back into life itself, not to resist it, not to force some meaning out of it. It is too huge for my small, fallible brain to make some sense out of it.

The mystical paradox here is that by giving up all search for the meaning of life, the deepest meaning presents itself of its own accord. Not knowing I know everything.

Jan
mysticism.nl

I attended the Easter service at the Lutheran church my fiancee goes to yesterday. I was struck by the beauty and utter nonsensical nature of the thing, and I couldn't help thinking that it doesn't really matter to the participants that they're celebrating what amounts to an entirely creative anachronism. The meaning is completely free floating, and doesn't at all rely on anything "real" or historical. The psychological and cultural benefits accrue regardless. How very interesting.

Chris

 

[Archimysticus]

The great things in life are often inexplicable, non-sensical even. Like a great symphony, a landscape or a beautiful painting. It is always a bit ridiculous when we try to descibe the workings of a Shostakovich symphony.

The same with the mystical. Whatever works in lifting you up and freeing you from yourself is to be cherised.

 

[Paladin]

Hail Archimysticus!

Love where this is going guys, this thread promises a great read. I think searching for the meaning of life generally is like asking what is the meaning of a puppy... or a tree, or a rock.
Relaxing into life and enjoying it with a sense of bemusement and childlike wonder seems the best course for me, and I suspect for many others. It's amazing how so many wonderful things present themselves when you aren't busy looking for your own expectations to be resolved.

 

[Vajradhara]

i don't think that people are actually searching for a meaning to life, whatever that may actually mean. i think that people are searching for an experience of actually being alive and having that experience resonate throughout their being.

 

[Paladin]

i don't think that people are actually searching for a meaning to life, whatever that may actually mean. i think that people are searching for an experience of actually being alive and having that experience resonate throughout their being.

Hey! How are you?

I think you may well have hit upon the point of the entire universe

 

[Archimysticus]

i don't think that people are actually searching for a meaning to life, whatever that may actually mean. i think that people are searching for an experience of actually being alive and having that experience resonate throughout their being.

I see what you mean. Most people, though, are not content with having that pure experience. They also want the experience to be meaningful. They want to derive some knowledge out of the experience, so to have some insight and pleasure from it, also on moments they are not actually having the experience you talk about.

I agree that there perhaps the whole problem starts (turning the experience into some form of knowledge; making it meaningful and therefore solid), but most people feel that way. They are in search of the meaning of their lives.


Jan
mysticism.nl

 

[Vajradhara]

Hey! How are you?

I think you may well have hit upon the point of the entire universe

you wouldn't believe me if i told you Paladin

i don't think the universe has a point other than to be a universe and even that is so fraught with human intellectual encrustation that it's nearly meaningless.

if i had to ascribe some sort of meaning to it, which seems hardly more than hubris, i would suggest that human consciousness manifests as a way for the universe to experience itself and the experience thereof resonates through our being in a manifestly meaningful way.

how could it not?

 

[Kenneth]

As long as we search for the meaning of life with our minds, we will not find it. The meaning of life is not an explicandum, something in need of clarification. It is not something I'll come up with one day to tell you all about it. When we could force the famous statue of Rodin to speak to us, it surely would have a lot of interesting things to say, but it would not succeed in informing us about the meaning of life, though it doesn't do much else than thinking.

This is because the word 'meaning' and the word 'life' aren't exclusively compatible. Not that they contradict one another, but they are more like apples and pears. Both fruit, but of a different kind. Life is so much more than meaning. Meaning is solid, vast, unmovable. But life is changing, always new, floating by, here and there. Life offers new horizons, new meanings every day. There will never come a moment for me to say: 'Now I know the meaning of it all!'

This is not to say that life is meaningless, that there is nothing meaningful to say about life. It only means that all our meanings are tentative, proviso, ad hoc explications for the moment. Maybe life will offer us a complete new meaning the next morning.

What has worked for me well is to give up searching for the meaning of life. I have learned to sink back into life itself, not to resist it, not to force some meaning out of it. It is too huge for my small, fallible brain to make some sense out of it.

The mystical paradox here is that by giving up all search for the meaning of life, the deepest meaning presents itself of its own accord. Not knowing I know everything.

Jan
mysticism.nl

Very nice views and opens up many questions for a good discussion.

I wish to understand what you mean by "searching for a meaning in life" with some examples and how to live without that with examples.

 

[Vajradhara]

I see what you mean. Most people, though, are not content with having that pure experience. They also want the experience to be meaningful. They want to derive some knowledge out of the experience, so to have some insight and pleasure from it, also on moments they are not actually having the experience you talk about.

I agree that there perhaps the whole problem starts (turning the experience into some form of knowledge; making it meaningful and therefore solid), but most people feel that way. They are in search of the meaning of their lives.


Jan
mysticism.nl

i think that such experience seems as if it wouldn't be particularly meaningful until a being experiences it directly at which point the meaning of it becomes manifest without any linguistic encrustation, the meaning (though such concepts are hardly relevant) of the experience lies within the experience itself.

i think that you touch on something very key, namely, the continuance of the experiential feeling on a constant, day to day basis. every religious or spiritual tradition that i've studied or looked into recognizes this aspect of human experience and offer means and methods by which a being can continually "tune" their mind into the underlying theme of it all, so to speak.

 

[Kenneth]

i don't think that people are actually searching for a meaning to life, whatever that may actually mean. i think that people are searching for an experience of actually being alive and having that experience resonate throughout their being.

Can you please give some examples in a few specific areas pertaining to our day to day life.

 

[Vajradhara]

Can you please give some examples in a few specific areas pertaining to our day to day life.

there are no examples that i can give you other than experiences which have provided the experience for me which is, of course, totally subjective and important only to myself.

i would suggest, however, the the Buddhist idea of Satori or the Taoist idea of "being in the groove everywhere you go" hint at such experiences.

 

[Kenneth]

there are no examples that i can give you other than experiences which have provided the experience for me which is, of course, totally subjective and important only to myself.

i would suggest, however, the the Buddhist idea of Satori or the Taoist idea of "being in the groove everywhere you go" hint at such experiences.

I was just requesting some general broad examples that are common to everybody is searching for as you said.

 

[Vajradhara]

I was just requesting some general broad examples that are common to everybody is searching for as you said.

that's just it. there are no common experiences. each being experiences whatever it is they are experiences completely uniquely. it is a *shared* experience but the actual visceral experience of it isn't shared that is unique.

a rather clumsy way of trying to explain that i'm afraid.

 

[seattlegal]

there are no examples that i can give you other than experiences which have provided the experience for me which is, of course, totally subjective and important only to myself.

i would suggest, however, the the Buddhist idea of Satori or the Taoist idea of "being in the groove everywhere you go" hint at such experiences.

Athletes call it "being in the zone."

 

[Archimysticus]

i think that such experience seems as if it wouldn't be particularly meaningful until a being experiences it directly at which point the meaning of it becomes manifest without any linguistic encrustation, the meaning (though such concepts are hardly relevant) of the experience lies within the experience itself.

i think that you touch on something very key, namely, the continuance of the experiential feeling on a constant, day to day basis. every religious or spiritual tradition that i've studied or looked into recognizes this aspect of human experience and offer means and methods by which a being can continually "tune" their mind into the underlying theme of it all, so to speak.

I like your apophatic stance and I myself am also wrapped in the 'Cloud of Unknowing' every moment of the day. But on the Middle Way I have found to be mystically the most effective for me, I have also found that there is perhaps -we are speaking here very tentatively- a kataphatic side to the religious experience as well: we seem to derive some higher transrational knowledge from it also, which makes it possible for us to talk about the Divine in some shared terms, like St. Dionysos tried to do in his treatise 'Divine Names'.

Some of this shared traits of the mystical experience are blissfulness, Oneness, goodness, righteousness, to name but a few. Some of these terms sound rather dual and that is, perhaps, because they are already a part of duality but at a level of emanation where Godliness is still pure and undivided, coming right from the Source, so to speak.

Well, however this may be, there has always been a kataphatic side to mysticism as well: the belief that we can know and say something about (divine) Reality. I'm open to this solution as well and find it promising.

Jan
mysticism.nl

 

[Paladin]

you wouldn't believe me if i told you Paladin

i don't think the universe has a point other than to be a universe and even that is so fraught with human intellectual encrustation that it's nearly meaningless.

if i had to ascribe some sort of meaning to it, which seems hardly more than hubris, i would suggest that human consciousness manifests as a way for the universe to experience itself and the experience thereof resonates through our being in a manifestly meaningful way.

how could it not?

I would too believe you!

I really think having a point and having meaning (while subjective in nature) are somewhat different.
For example I think life is for living, but what does that mean? Well... nothing really. Living our lives one frame at a time while juggling the concepts of past and future keeps us pretty busy.
And the shared experience thought you mentioned, I'm not so sure anymore that is a cut and dried truth.
I mean the whole mirror neuron idea puts that on some shaky ground don't you think?

 

[Vajradhara]

I really think having a point and having meaning (while subjective in nature) are somewhat different.
For example I think life is for living, but what does that mean? Well... nothing really. Living our lives one frame at a time while juggling the concepts of past and future keeps us pretty busy.
And the shared experience thought you mentioned, I'm not so sure anymore that is a cut and dried truth.
I mean the whole mirror neuron idea puts that on some shaky ground don't you think?

i agree that have a point or purpose is different than ascribing meaning to said purpose or to anything else for that matter. it can be reasonably be said that purpose would exist even if humans didn't whereas meaning, more than likely, would not.

it is a shared experience only in the sense that two or more beings may witness or have sensory input of the same event in spacetime. their subsequent cognitive processes are unique unto themselves.

it is only when we, ourselves, eat the persimmon do we know of what it tastes.