Hindu deities=1 God?

[Thomas]

Francis ... let me explain something ...

if I so chose, I could do what you are doing, going through Hindu doctrinal terms explaining them as half-grasped concepts that are clearly stated in Christian metaphysics.

Where would that get us?

But that's not in the spirit of Interfaith. If you want to get some good guidelines, may I suggest the Sophia Perennis? The authors in mind are René Guenon (Sufi, but a master of Hindu metaphysics), Fritjof Schuon (Sufi) Marco Pallis (Tibetan Buddhism). These have been my guiding lights, and in the spirit of the Way of the Heart I delight in the correspondences between traditions, but never go as far as the elitism that you're currently engaged in.

I have realised that 'the Absolute' can be, and is too often, just another idol and a false God, one that appeals to the intellectually-inclined.

I have come to see all creation as symbol, and as such, the Absolute can be experienced', immediately and Immanently, through the contemplation of such. As long as one holds 'the absolute' as superior to anything other, and the world at arm's length, one is still caught up in the veils of illusion.

 

[Francis Earl]

It is hardly surprising, since I have no interest in the doctrine.

You have shown an equally poor grasp of Vedic doctrines, yet we are in the Hindu section of the forums.

 

[Francis Earl]

I could do what you are doing, going through Hindu doctrinal terms explaining them as half-grasped concepts that are clearly stated in Christian metaphysics.

Please do so.

Where would that get us?

I think it would give us a valid basis for actual dialog.

I do not care to learn your belief system, I want an understanding to develop beyond doctrine.

But that's not in the spirit of Interfaith.

I disagree, I think the only purpose of genuine interfaith dialog can be a synthesis of understanding.

As long as we insist on remaining separate, there is no point to such dialog at all.

II have realised that 'the Absolute' can be, and is too often, just another idol and a false God, one that appeals to the intellectually-inclined.

God is not another idol, but you are making him such by insisting on your idea rather than direct experience.

Understand that nothing you think about God can possibly be the reality.

It doesn't matter how well verses you are in scholarship, God is not contained in any book.

If, for you, interfaith is not about deepening your understanding of the reality, we cannot engage.

II have come to see all creation as symbol, and as such, the Absolute can be experienced', immediately and Immanently, through the contemplation of such. As long as one holds 'the absolute' as superior to anything other, and the world at arm's length, one is still caught up in the veils of illusion.

I have suggested nothing of the sort.

It is exactly why I am attempting at all to correlate notions.

What we call these things cannot be more irrelevant, what we imagine them to mean will be far from the reality.

I attempt to use the words to bring about common understanding.

Make no mistake, information about it isn't the same thing.

 

[Francis Earl]

I think the most important thing to recognize in interfaith dialog is that we're talking about the same reality, really only terminology differs.

I am simply uninterested in pretending your reality differs from mine, it means one of us is depending too much on a mental notion, on our belief system.

I can look at a Sufi, a Buddhist, a Hindu and see the same truth being conveyed.

I happen to think the Vedas and Upanishads are more complete and alive, this is not a preference.

If Christianity was more successful in enlightening its practitioners, I would be more than willing to give it more time.

As it is, life is very short, and I am more interested in living truth than studying what others say about it.

 

[Francis Earl]

I enjoy talking about the truth, but in an interactive way.

This is also why you will not see me quote others often...

I am using these terms to discuss my own experience, I am not preaching.

I genuinely just enjoy meeting others who share the experience.

I like bringing others to the experience.

I am not interested in gathering more information, I am interested in individuals.

 

[Devils' Advocate]

I am simply uninterested in pretending your reality differs from mine, it means one of us is depending too much on a mental notion, on our belief system.

Actually you are both depending on your mental notions of your belief systems. As are we all. Your reality does differ from Thomas's. Or mine. Or anyone else's. Reality is like that. I am astonished you cannot see that.

 

[wil]

Yes....your own experience....your perceptions of your own experiences....your reality is almost always different from others...

you may coincide on some items, but in the whole our reality is as divergent as the paths that brought us together.

One kid hates the teacher, the other is amazed at how much they are learning....our preconceived notions affect what we see and believe.

 

[Francis Earl]

Actually you are both depending on your mental notions of your belief systems. As are we all. Your reality does differ from Thomas's. Or mine. Or anyone else's. Reality is like that. I am astonished you cannot see that.

I am suggesting those differences are due to projections, they are subjective rather than real.

I am suggesting that no real dialog can happen unless we recognize these projections, and instead accept them as differences of language.

What is actually so? Beyond past experiences or future aspirations, what is actually real?

This is the only place faith can happen.

 

[Francis Earl]

Yes....your own experience....your perceptions of your own experiences....your reality is almost always different from others...

you may coincide on some items, but in the whole our reality is as divergent as the paths that brought us together.

One kid hates the teacher, the other is amazed at how much they are learning....our preconceived notions affect what we see and believe.

Again, how to move beyond our preconceptions?

I suppose I am in a strange situation, I have taken mystical experiences into my interpretation of scriptures.

I have primarily attempted to find words to convey a reality, rather than studying a belief for consolation or whatever else.

Now, those mystical experiences have come and gone, but I can understand when they are being referenced.

We cannot come together unless we understand nothing that has ceased can be real.

Again, what is actually real now?

It is impossible to agree on what isn't here.

Are we really showing true faith by projecting it here?

 

[Francis Earl]

For me, this begins with fundamentally doubting our minds.

We have to understand it is the source of all illusion.

There is no reality to anything we have to project, believe.

Now, what is here?

This, alone, I consider Truth.

Beyond this, whatever is changing cannot be true either.

The form and mind both go on changing.

Surroundings are constantly changing.

Who is observing all change?

This is the only thing worthy of identification.

Yet, that which identifies is still dependent on consciousness.

What is left?

It is the only thing that is always here.

 

[wil]

Seems your preconception is that we are wrong...

Seems while you feel you see the true reality... this is your perception.

The Dali Lama said you know you are enlightened when everyone you see...you see as enlightened...

I came back to this forum to gauge how far I had to go...

 

[Francis Earl]

Seems your preconception is that we are wrong...

Seems while you feel you see the true reality... this is your perception.

The Dali Lama said you know you are enlightened when everyone you see...you see as enlightened...

I came back to this forum to gauge how far I had to go...

This is your projection, again...

I know you are enlightened because you cannot be otherwise.

No matter how lost you get in appearances, that which is lost is not an appearance.

That for which all is appearing is eternally enlightened.

You have taken your own meaning from his words.

Yet, what you have failed to recognize is that I'm speaking because I know this is true of you.

Else, why will I bother to talk at all?

 

[Francis Earl]

I do not even consider this something difficult to recognize...

It is simply the actual reality.

Yet, I also know the benefits of seeing reality correctly.

Which is also why I bother to speak on it.

 

[wil]

Yet, what you have failed to recognize is that I'm speaking because I know this is true of you.

Else, why will I bother to talk at all?

If you see me as enlightened.... why would you bother to talk at all?

 

[Francis Earl]

If you see me as enlightened.... why would you bother to talk at all?

My usual response would be because you do not see it...

Here, it is even more simple, you have addressed me, it is rude to ignore.

 

[A Cup Of Tea]

Hey guys!
Let me tell you about this poster, Lunitik, that was here now and then a while back. I don't know what happened to him, he might have been banned for all I know.
Well he was a contrary guy, on principle I would guess, who would go off on long tangents about anything. Mostly how everyone has got everything wrong always. Except Buddha, Jesus, Lunitik and so on. He was always slippery because he would always change the discussion and make vague references to something without giving actual references. Some times after days of back and forth some people would actually exhaust him enough that he would admit that nothing he ever said was remotely relevant but he only said these things to help the other poster see the truth.
That's nice right, so helpful. No one ever felt helped, mostly frustrated that they where deceived, but still, hearts in the right place right?
He stopped interacting with people when people just ignored his dramatic proclamations when they understood they were just his way of getting his needed attention...to help people.
Anyways...good luck in your future discussions, hope they are fruitful!

 

[Francis Earl]

Why do you suppose I am something static?

 

[Francis Earl]

Don't get me wrong, I'm honored you still remember me.

I don't even remember how I was 4-5 years ago, but your description seems pretty detailed.

I guess I made a pretty huge impact in your life? Wow...

 

[Senthil]

I believe this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandiose_delusions is useful to those people who are trying or have tried to engage folks with these attributes who happen along. It adds clarity to the situation, I think.

 

[Francis Earl]

smh...

Is anyone actually trying to have an on topic discussion?