The truth about Trinity

It is vital that we try and understand how God the Father and God the Son are "One". There is only one Jesus Christ, yet there are thousands of Christian denominations. John 17 seems invisible when people mention the Trinity, because Jesus pray that we should be "One".

Jesus Prays for All Believers
John 17:20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

The same God hears all our prayers, despite our differences. You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God.
 
whacky43 said:
Jesus said, "Where there are three, they are without god, and where there is but a single one I say that I am with him."' (Gospel of Thomas #30)
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Where did you get this translation from?

All translations I know don't put "without".

I have absolutely no knowledge of Coptic, but my suggestion of the original, based on all five translations I know, is
"Where there are three elohim, they are in Elohim. Where there are two or one, I Am with those.
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It is a play of words with elohim, used exclusively for "people of God", i.e. true followers/servants/bearers of God in the Mishnah, and Elohim used for God in the Torah.
 
Greg said:
Hi, if they are all the same God, what purpose does different names have? The idea is to relate to God as one personal Being. We don't relate to three, we relate to one.

(I have Christian background. Still see value but not trinity and not wrong view of Bible. Not Rome corrupted, educated Jews and others considered animal sacrifice obsolete but the system they had to work in was Rome [religious commonality]. Then later, Roman Church punished for heresy.)
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I find the Trinity confusing as well. However, I now know that many religions including Judaism have multiple names for God.
 
Greg said:
Protestants don't eat the "body" and don't "re-present" the sacrifice. That's a step in a better direction.
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Depends on the denomination. Some use the language about the body and blood, but most don't hold to the transubstantiation theory of Catholicism.
 
Could the greatest commandments possibly describe how Christ is One with the Father? Jesus prayed that we should be ‘One’ in exactly the same way that he is ‘One with the Father’.

The Father loves the Son as he loves himself.

The Son loves the Father as he loves himself.

Could the spirit be the power of God’s love; working through the perfection of the greatest commandments?

1 Samuel 18-1, NIV version. Jonathan became one in spirit with David, and he loved him as himself.

Can there be any greater definition of ’Oneness’? How can we truly love all our neighbours as we loves ourselves, and with all our differences.
 
@EricPH -

I find the NIV translation here not the best and in a way misleading. The Hebrew says nothing about Jonathan becoming one in spirit with David. It says that the soul of Jonathan came to be bound to the soul of David. You may want to argue the point with me, but I see different concepts here.
 
Thats what the Amplified version says as well.

1 Samuel 18:1 AMP
[1] When David had finished speaking to Saul, the soul of Jonathan was bonded to the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as himself.

Like there is a deep emotional bond as opposed to being a "oneness" with the Holy Spirit bridging the gap.

I like this better as an example.
1 Corinthians 6:17 AMP
[17] But the one who is united and joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.

Wanted to add that we are called to love unbelievers as well as believers as ourselves. Not sure uf the "oneness" concept works with every relationship.
 
RabbiO said:
The Hebrew says nothing about Jonathan becoming one in spirit with David. It says that the soul of Jonathan came to be bound to the soul of David. You may want to argue the point with me, but I see different concepts here.
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I looked up several translations, and the NIV was the only one with that interpretation. Whatever the true interpretation might be, linking the greatest commandments and the spirit, has a profound meaning for me. We all search for meaning, so I would not want to argue with you. Have a good day.
 
The talk of Oneness makes me think of Oneness Pentecostal / Apostolic churches. They are one of several Christian groups which explicitly depart from the conventional doctrine of the Trinity. I believe they are distinct in that they believe all 3 "persons" usually described as being in the Trinity are all actually Jesus appearing different ways.
 
TheLightWithin said:
The talk of Oneness makes me think of Oneness Pentecostal
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Oneness speaks more to me about unity for mankind. We all know there can only be 'One Jesus Christ', but we have thousands of Christian denominations. The more we recognise unity, the more likely we will be kinder to those we feel united to. The oneness of God should also encourage our unity.
 
EricPH said:
but we have thousands of Christian denominations.
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We do, but many, I suggest by number of members the majority, are in communions across denominations –

So a split of total Christians by denomination:
Catholic (48.6%)
Protestant (23.8%)
Independent (16.0%)
Orthodox (11.1%)
Other (0.5%)

Breakdown here
 
Greg said:
Hi, if they are all the same God, what purpose does different names have? The idea is to relate to God as one personal Being. We don't relate to three, we relate to one.

(I have Christian background. Still see value but not trinity and not wrong view of Bible. Not Rome corrupted, educated Jews and others considered animal sacrifice obsolete but the system they had to work in was Rome [religious commonality]. Then later, Roman Church punished for heresy.)
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We in Islam have the "99 Names of God". These are all descriptive attributes like "The Merciful" or "The Teacher". Islam is strictly monotheistic, though. We may translate "Allah" into any language. Still, God is One.
 
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