Jesus and the "I AM"

NiceCupOfTea

NiceCupOfTea

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Jesus made a number of "I AM" statements

I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me shall not hunger.” John 6:35

I am the light of the world; he who fallows Me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life.” John 8:12

I am the gate; if anyone enters through Me, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.” John 10:9

I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for His sheep.” John 10:11

I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me shall live even if he dies.” John 11:25

I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me.” John 14:6
I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.” John 15:1
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many people relate these to the Great I AM that Moses met,

Is this the case, since the Old Testament was written in Hebrew and the New Testament in Greek.

So are they the same "I AM" ?
 
Good talking point to bring up! One thing I notice is the verses you've picked are all in one gospel, John.
 
Dream said:
Good talking point to bring up! One thing I notice is the verses you've picked are all in one gospel, John.
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oh yeah, i never noticed, that i just copied these from somewhere anyway.

Gospel of John is my fav anyway.
 
Gospel of John is the one that is least likely to contain actual words that Jesus ever spoke.
 
Bob X said:
It has almost zero overlap with the other sources, and was the latest to appear.
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:eek: Time flies.

NiceCupOfTea said:
many people relate these to the Great I AM that Moses met,

Is this the case, since the Old Testament was written in Hebrew and the New Testament in Greek.

So are they the same "I AM" ?
Click to expand...
To me Jesus seems to want his disciples to say 'I Am' to other people, in turn expecting them to repeat it. So a disciple of Jesus might say "I am the way the truth and the life" to you, and then you would say it to the next person. John particularly stresses that God has come down to live in people as a group, so it makes sense for all of these I Am verses to be in John. For several of the 'I Am' verses you've mentioned there are obvious cousin verses where Jesus tells his disciples 'You Are' instead of 'I am'. I get a strong impression that when he says 'I Am' we are also supposed to say 'I Am' and act responsibly in line with that affirmation.

  • Luke 9:13 But he said to them, "You give them something to eat."
  • Matthew 5:14 "You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hid.
 
Dream said:
:eek: Time flies.

To me Jesus seems to want his disciples to say 'I Am' to other people, in turn expecting them to repeat it. So a disciple of Jesus might say "I am the way the truth and the life" to you, and then you would say it to the next person. John particularly stresses that God has come down to live in people as a group, so it makes sense for all of these I Am verses to be in John. For several of the 'I Am' verses you've mentioned there are obvious cousin verses where Jesus tells his disciples 'You Are' instead of 'I am'. I get a strong impression that when he says 'I Am' we are also supposed to say 'I Am' and act responsibly in line with that affirmation.

  • Luke 9:13 But he said to them, "You give them something to eat."
  • Matthew 5:14 "You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hid.
Click to expand...

Not sure how I forgot about this, but about 2 years ago I got whacked by the Holy Spirit, it was like i started vibrating at the speed of light and then got this revelation that Christ is the divine spark that is in all Life, this divine spark is conciousness, or "I AM". Like the "I AM " that Moses met.

But is this what Jesus means when he says "I AM the way the truth and the life etc "
 
Jesus made a number of "I AM" statements
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It is my understanding it is then he is speaking of himself as G!d, he is speaking from his "I AM" self, not from his earthly self.
Dream said:
:eek: Time flies.

To me Jesus seems to want his disciples to say 'I Am' to other people, in turn expecting them to repeat it. So a disciple of Jesus might say "I am the way the truth and the life" to you, and then you would say it to the next person.
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Say or grock? Are you indicating that we all if we understand fully can reach a Christ "I AM" understanding?


NiceCupOfTea said:
Not sure how I forgot about this, but about 2 years ago I got whacked by the Holy Spirit, it was like i started vibrating at the speed of light and then got this revelation that Christ is the divine spark that is in all Life, this divine spark is conciousness, or "I AM". Like the "I AM " that Moses met.

But is this what Jesus means when he says "I AM the way the truth and the life etc "
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G!dsmacked!

Namaste....All that is good/divine in me, sees, salutes, and acknowledges all that is good/divine in you.

I agree fully with what you've said, I'd love for you to expound upon it and contemplate. Whether that divine is 'The Christ' or a Christ understanding, a Christ concept, a concept that exceeds the written word. That Christ(ed), like G!d is undefinable, yet achievable, as you touched it, glimpsed it.

Let the mind in Christ be in you.
 
Wil said:
Say or grock? Are you indicating that we all if we understand fully can reach a Christ "I AM" understanding?
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I did a poor job of explaining. I meant 'Say.' not 'Grok.'

I think in saying 'I Am the Way' he's incorporating all of his teachings since they go against the idea of the teacher -> student order. Previous to him 'The way' involved following the teachings of Moses and becoming a Moses-like person. Jesus is always saying the opposite. The beatitudes are inclusive of anyone who hungers for righteousness, anyone who is a peacemaker and with no certification. When Jesus was only thirteen he was himself answering questions at the temple. When preaching he would say to repent and that "the kingdom of God is at hand." Its the 'At hand' that indicates the kingdom is near to you, completely opposite of saying its at the temple or in Jerusalem. His main opponents were Priests, Sadducees and Pharisees because they were so discipleship oriented. He derided their discipleship and traditions as problem causing.

In John 10 we see him about to be stoned for saying he was one with the Father, but after some dialogue he points out "Is it not written in your law, `I said, you are gods'?" He's not denying the concept of truth or of one God but is saying that whoever does the works of the Father is one with the Father. The chapter caps it off by saying those who met Jesus would comment "Everything that John said about this man is true." This was John the Baptist who was quite anti establishment and anti discipleship. When the ministry of John passes to Jesus it isn't by means of education but instead they briefly meet at the river, and John says to Jesus "You should be baptizing me but you want me to baptize you instead!" The rite is blessed by the spirit descending from heaven in the form of a dove. In other words the prophet's mantle passed from one to another with no teaching, and this was testified to by the holy spirit. Jesus tells his own disciples later that the Holy Spirit would come to lead them into all truth, meaning that he was not instructing them like a normal master would have done. They would also be the Way the Truth and the Life.
 
"I AM" is the whole, Jesus has experienced the whole - what buddhists might call kensho or satori - but in the physical form he is still only a part. Jesus cannot be omnipresent, therefore he cannot be called God. Jesus will be coming back, but this alone proves he is not fully enlightened in the Bible - if he were, how can he return? Cursing a fig tree, whipping innocent animals for the actions of their master, these are simply not enlightened actions. Of course, this is quite important when trying to understand why he is so popular. He has the same weaknesses as any person so he is easy to identify with. We call him God incarnate because otherwise we are worshiping a man no better than our ancestor who has died in a gruesome way - and each of us undoubtedly have one.
 
wil said:
Are you indicating that we all if we understand fully can reach a Christ "I AM" understanding?
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The Bible itself tells us this, it is not important what he is indicating.

The Bible tells us that, if we can know that all is a part of the whole, if we do not separate anything at all, we can attain to the body of Christ. Now, body has two meanings, the metaphor directly discusses one meaning, what is the other?

Body can also mean a group, for instance the body of congress. Thus, to say we can be the body of Christ - the anointed body - takes a far different meaning.
 
Dream said:
The chapter caps it off by saying those who met Jesus would comment "Everything that John said about this man is true." This was John the Baptist who was quite anti establishment and anti discipleship. When the ministry of John passes to Jesus it isn't by means of education but instead they briefly meet at the river, and John says to Jesus "You should be baptizing me but you want me to baptize you instead!"
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This is a perfect example of why the gospel of John has to be treated as fiction. In Acts, Christians meet followers of John the Baptist's sect who have never heard of Christian baptism (the sect does, barely, survive to this day); if John the Baptist ever decided that Jesus really was the Messiah, he evidently neglected to tell any of his followers that! What we find in the synoptic gospels is that John was sufficiently interested in Jesus to send someone (John was in prison at the time) to ask Jesus if he was the Messiah: Jesus told the messenger to tell John about the faith healings he was accomplishing-- but whether John was impressed by that or not, we do not hear.
 
bob x said:
This is a perfect example of why the gospel of John has to be treated as fiction. In Acts, Christians meet followers of John the Baptist's sect who have never heard of Christian baptism (the sect does, barely, survive to this day); if John the Baptist ever decided that Jesus really was the Messiah, he evidently neglected to tell any of his followers that! What we find in the synoptic gospels is that John was sufficiently interested in Jesus to send someone (John was in prison at the time) to ask Jesus if he was the Messiah: Jesus told the messenger to tell John about the faith healings he was accomplishing-- but whether John was impressed by that or not, we do not hear.
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bob do you have anything to say on the subject of this thread ?
 
The gospel of John portrays an egotistical Jesus who is all about ME! ME! ME! Devote yourselves to ME! The other sources portray a Jesus who wants us to devote ourselves to each other. The two are very different, and it is the gospel of John which I completely reject as a valid source of what Jesus ever said. That IS the topic of this thread.
 
Well the billion dollar question........

Can God (or his Son) utter "I AM" in hebrew or aramaic?

I doubt it !!
 
Bobx, if I haven't said it before I've not read very much. I'm willing to look at John as fiction rather than as a consistent book, and I'll think about what an egotistical Jesus would be trying to say. I'm not able to discuss when John was written or by whom. Its all very interesting, but the problem is that there is so much of it.
 
Some additional background. There are non-Johanine "I am" sayings, however they are apocryphic (see Thomas saying 13). What does this mean? Thomas was probably closer to the Jerusalem (Jamesian) stream of early Christianity.

While John was probably written last there is plenty of contextual proof that it may be the closest to an eyewitness account of the crucifixion and Jerusalem. It may also contain some other seed truths (the length of Jesus' mission and his many visits to Jerusalem). On the other hand, it provides both a "higher" or more "spiritual" portrait of Jesus and a more anti-Semetic one.

What does this mean? Perhaps John is the source, but the author is clearly closer to the Hellenistic side of early Christianity than James or the other gospels. What we may be seeing is both a more Greek version of Jesus and one trying to distance itself from Jesus the Jew. The "I am" sayings in John are very likely an anti-Jamesian addition (they do not fit well with the context of Jesus).

Pax et amor vincunt omnia--radarmark
 
Perhaps you meant some number other than 13, or have a non-standard numbering of the Thomas sayings?
 
13 " I am not your teacher" 77 "I am the All...Split open a timber I am there" very close to an exact translation of I am on Hebrew to Coptic (I think).

Pax et amor vincunt omnia--radarmark
 
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