"The Body", mystic ideas from a friend

[Lorenzo Bermejo]

The Body, by Amoray

The body is the barrier that doesn’t let you see reality. You must transcend the idea of your body. You must do it if you want to see the Light of the Self. Because the idea of the body creates illusion and dependencies.

Once you have gone beyond the idea of the body, everything else lacks any importance. Because what you really are exists beyond the body and to know this opens the doors of real knowledge for you.

What you are exists beyond the body. But you identify yourself with your body and although you don’t know it, you are always thinking in something that isn’t you. Because you cannot reach what you are with your mind. This is so, that nothing of what you think is you.

Whatever you think and never mind how elevated your thoughts could be, your thoughts will always be separated from you; you are not that. No, you are not what thinks nor what feels; you are what you are and nobody who lives on this Earth can explain what it is.

It isn’t possible to discern the Self if you are in a body. You can try to do it, but you will never be able to enclose in an idea or a concept what you are. Whatever you do or think, you will always be thinking in something that is not you.

You can’t know yourself using thoughts. Even by thinking in whatever you are, you will always be thinking in something that isn't you. What you are exists beyond the body and beyond thinking. You are pure light. Pure energy.

 

[Vajradhara]

could you explain how the idea of a body creates illusions and dependencies?

metta,

~v

 

[Lunitik]

When we cling to mind and body, and define it as "I", of course it is a barrier to attainment of something higher. We are not the body or the mind, this is our maya, we believe that if our body dies we cease to be. Spirituality is about discovering our true nature, but it has always been our nature - it is more about remembering. For many, understanding the body is not you is quite easy, understanding that the mind is where this illusion stems is a lot more difficult for most. That pure light is the experience of enlightenment, and is the goal. Do not become your own enemy, do not cling to the lies society has provided you. Become deprogrammed and you will know truth, but the programming runs deep.

To say the body is not important though? The body is your vehicle for exploring this place, enlightenment does not mean you are above the necessity to care for it. It is like a car, you know it is not you, but if it breaks down on your way to the destination you will not be pleased.

 

[Lunitik]

could you explain how the idea of a body creates illusions and dependencies?

It is not the body at all, it is the mind... I think this is what you're getting at though

 

[pseudonymous]

I think the use of 'mystic' in the post is a bit erroneous. This is just paint by number Eastern thought. It is basically the same East meets West approach to advanced Self Awareness - but unfortunately pre-packaged in the Eastern box of definitions. I have been writing about the need to separate the Self from brain identification for over a decade, but lucky for me I was not told what to think prior to attaining my awareness. My writings can be found here:

www.the-crows-nest.com

for anyone wishing for a West-did-not-need-to-meet-East perspective.

 

[Lunitik]

I think the use of 'mystic' in the post is a bit erroneous. This is just paint by number Eastern thought. It is basically the same East meets West approach to advanced Self Awareness - but unfortunately pre-packaged in the Eastern box of definitions. I have been writing about the need to separate the Self from brain identification for over a decade, but lucky for me I was not told what to think prior to attaining my awareness. My writings can be found here:

www.the-crows-nest.com

for anyone wishing for a West-did-not-need-to-meet-East perspective.

You are showing your own preference, and thus writing on things that are common hat in the East. If you are aware, you will understand that segregation is false, that the nature of the need for separation is ego-based. All should accept the lessons of East and West, leaving nothing out, for otherwise you are left with a half truth, you are missing a whole host of knowledge - you are damaging your own growth because you want to remain in your particular box. Pull from both what is useful, and forget what is not, this is the only path to truth, the only holy path, the only path to creating a whole person.

East has perfected flowering, West has perfected strong roots, without the stem, neither can be healthy. Without the roots, the nutrition from the soil is not accessible, without the flower, there is no way to soak in the sun. The stem passes between each, yet it depends on both and allows both to utilize it. Like the stem, if man refuses either soil or sun, he too must eventually whither and die. The East is so concentrated on the sun that it has forgotten to create a strong society, to push technology forward. The West is too concentrated on the soil, they are not interested in awakening to their full potential for it damages their societal structure. Both have come to the heights of their particular concentration, but neither set of people are content.

 

[pseudonymous]

Moving the ideal of both awarenesses is not an issue - however it is rarely the ideal that is expoused upon...it tends to be more a watered down approach of both which leads to statements like "You are pure light. Pure energy." We are neither, but it does sound romantic.

Statements such as this, "If you are aware, you will understand that segregation is false" are conceptual, not experiencial. Unity is entirely a brain perception that stumbles upon the void - bodies do have one source, but Self is not the body, and Self does not come from the same source. Experiencial findings, not parroted vicarious belief.

 

[earl]

Moving the ideal of both awarenesses is not an issue - however it is rarely the ideal that is expoused upon...it tends to be more a watered down approach of both which leads to statements like "You are pure light. Pure energy." We are neither, but it does sound romantic.

Statements such as this, "If you are aware, you will understand that segregation is false" are conceptual, not experiencial. Unity is entirely a brain perception that stumbles upon the void - bodies do have one source, but Self is not the body, and Self does not come from the same source. Experiencial findings, not parroted vicarious belief.

One school of thought is that the "essence/Self/core consciousness " of us does not meld with the body of the fetus until it achieves birth into this plane of existence. So, "not one, not two." earl

 

[pseudonymous]

Thus going to the white light may indeed be the birth canal...written about that, too. Makes sense to me given my experiences with spirits and entities.

 

[Lunitik]

Moving the ideal of both awarenesses is not an issue - however it is rarely the ideal that is expoused upon...it tends to be more a watered down approach of both which leads to statements like "You are pure light. Pure energy." We are neither, but it does sound romantic.

Statements such as this, "If you are aware, you will understand that segregation is false" are conceptual, not experiencial. Unity is entirely a brain perception that stumbles upon the void - bodies do have one source, but Self is not the body, and Self does not come from the same source. Experiencial findings, not parroted vicarious belief.

Quantum mechanics would have to stop you with the statement that we are not pure energy. What is key, however, is that this doesn't mean we reject our perception. I assure you this can be experienced, if you study quantum mechanics entirely separate from religion I believe it would be possible to stumble upon this. Self is the source, we have just forgotten.

 

[pseudonymous]

This is why spirituality should leave science alone - science can only address presently what the body is composed of. I am not the body. We are not pure energy...we use energy. Since we have no way of turning around and looking at ourselves, we have no idea what we are made of...but something tells me there is no reference point here in the body's reality. Quantum physics is only going to address the body, so delving into it is only going to make body-centric people more body-centric.

Self is not the source, nor have we forgotten anything. Evolution moves in one direction only, and the ever more complex brains over time should lead someone to think we are headed towards more advanced awareness. Trying to wed spirituality and science is just another way to wed East & West. The two are not congruent...one addresses the Witness in a limited degree, and one addresses what is witnessed to a great degree. Joining them tends to lead the aspirant to believe that they are what is being witnessed.

 

[Lunitik]

I am not the body. We are not pure energy...we use energy. Since we have no way of turning around and looking at ourselves, we have no idea what we are made of...but something tells me there is no reference point here in the body's reality. Quantum physics is only going to address the body, so delving into it is only going to make body-centric people more body-centric.

You make a bold statement, and yet clearly you do not know the answer, this is something which is learned not known. How can you not be the body? What is more important is to know what exactly the body is. Quantum physics has discovered the subtle bodies, and the subtle reality which the mystics have always described. Your whole statement is about duality, sorting this and that into groups. The material universe is the gross body of God, just as this structure is the gross body of man.

There certainly is a reference point where we can know this within this life, and there are plenty that are fully aware of what we are made of. It is wrong to separate what you are, this is the whole problem with many spiritual pursuits, they deny that physical things are real as well. The materialist does the opposite, they say that everything, including mind, is merely a physical function. Both compete against each other, but they can learn a great deal from each other if they collaborated. Competing with the materialist serves no purpose, and in fact you will never experience truth if you continue to deny an entire half of you.

Self is not the source, nor have we forgotten anything. Evolution moves in one direction only, and the ever more complex brains over time should lead someone to think we are headed towards more advanced awareness. Trying to wed spirituality and science is just another way to wed East & West. The two are not congruent...one addresses the Witness in a limited degree, and one addresses what is witnessed to a great degree. Joining them tends to lead the aspirant to believe that they are what is being witnessed.

Here's the thing, evolution is a physical process... if the physical advances, it means the spiritual must in turn experience involution - there is always a balance, and evolution is taking precedence, so spiritual is going to go backwards. Perhaps eventually evolution will merely culminate in the point spiritual began - it certainly seems feasible. I will not be around when that happens though, thus I choose to create a total condition now. This means I have focused on both aspects of myself equally, and allowed each to empower the other. This has taken me to a state where I have known Self and thus I laugh at your statements of ignorance.

Are you not what is being witnessed? Who is the witness? The true witness is the Self, the whole, to separate is again a mark of ignorance. It is always the mark of ignorance on the spiritual trail when you find yourself differentiating anything. In every situation, you are both the object and the subject, and the means for their coming together. This is the very thing which the trinity attempts to describe: beloved (father, object), lover (son, subject), and love (holy spirit, means) are entirely one.

 

[Lunitik]

It is disgusting that this is exactly the reason the Christians and Muslims cannot get along. The Muslim says nothing exists save God, and the Christian says everything is entirely one. They are merely caught up in semantics and billions of people have died because of this misunderstanding.

 

[radarmark]

Lunitik and Pseuonymous,

You are onto something here. Let me add that there could be a third metaphysical substance (besides mind/body or energy/matter). First, though let me make this clear that this is beyond physics (no quantum theory applies). All there is are moments of experience ... becoming not being ... Heraclitus not Plato.

It is what is being pointed to, not that which is pointing which is central

Pax et amor vincunt omnia Radarmark

 

[earl]

Lunitik and Pseuonymous,

You are onto something here. Let me add that there could be a third metaphysical substance (besides mind/body or energy/matter). First, though let me make this clear that this is beyond physics (no quantum theory applies). All there is are moments of experience ... becoming not being ... Heraclitus not Plato.

It is what is being pointed to, not that which is pointing which is central

Pax et amor vincunt omnia Radarmark

IMO quantum physics cannot explan the mystery of consciousness, though, perhaps, it is attractive to some as an explanation simply because it is a useful analogy to the action and nature of consciousness. Have certainly read a number of Q physicists chastising those in this camp for over-reaching in that regard. earl

 

[radarmark]

earl,

QM may be nice as a model or analogy, But just remember that is what it is. What I was referring to was just old-fashioned (and very much nearly forgotten) pre-logical positivist metaphysics or speculative philosophy as Whtehead put it.

Pax et amor vincunt omnia radarmark

 

[radarmark]

earl,
As long as you use it a a model or analogy. QM has many freaky facets, but direct application to consciousness is not one of them. What I was referrring to was a simple old-fashiod (and out of favor) pre-logical positivist meta-physics or speculative philosophy (per Whitehead).

Pax et amor vincunt omnia radarmark

 

[pseudonymous]

I can only repeat myself. It comes down to an experiential knowing versus conceptual knowing. Concepts are borrowed, experience is first hand. Mind you, the perceptions of the experience may be limited, but I would rather a person define their own experience, rather than have it defined for them. Not the first time esoteric truths were read and interpreted in exoteric ways. Been there, done that, bought the tee-shirt and wore it out.