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Lunitik
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I am only trying to provide a lamp to make your travels easier...
Do not label my statements as opinions, though, opinions are lies developed in the mind. I do not speak from mind, I speak from consciousness.
Islam gave birth to the Western civilisation
- Thread starter Abdullah
- Start date
I am only trying to provide a lamp to make your travels easier...
Do not label my statements as opinions, though, opinions are lies developed in the mind. I do not speak from mind, I speak from consciousness.
Bhaktajan II
Hare Krishna Yogi
- Messages
- 2,277
- Reaction score
- 115
- Points
- 63
Will some one now inform me that The "Magna Carta" was influenced by "Free Muslim" landowners?
It is generally considered part of the uncodified constitution. Lord Denning described it as "the greatest constitutional document of all times – the foundation of the freedom of the individual against the arbitrary authority of the despot".[1] In a 2005 speech, Lord Woolf described it as "first of a series of instruments that now are recognised as having a special constitutional status",[2] the others being the Habeas Corpus Act, the Petition of Right, the Bill of Rights, and the Act of Settlement.
Magna Carta - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It is generally considered part of the uncodified constitution. Lord Denning described it as "the greatest constitutional document of all times – the foundation of the freedom of the individual against the arbitrary authority of the despot".[1] In a 2005 speech, Lord Woolf described it as "first of a series of instruments that now are recognised as having a special constitutional status",[2] the others being the Habeas Corpus Act, the Petition of Right, the Bill of Rights, and the Act of Settlement.
Magna Carta - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
how about soap for 1?
; we gave you soap mate! :"The credit for manufacturing soap goes to Arab chemists, who introduced it to the world".
SCIENTIFIC INVENTIONS Muslims distinguished themselves not only as theoretical scientists and scientific thinkers
Here's some quotes of orientalists that back up everything shaykh hamza yusuf said; also the Quran backs it up too in that Allah says that the Prophet [saw] was sent as a mercy to the whole world:
ps: the first paragraph of this is very important in terms of modern science and engineering being based on Islam too, for without the 'experimental method' science and inventions would not have got further than theories in the West:
Experimental Method
Observation and experiment are the two sources of scientific knowledge. Aristotle was the father of the Greek sciences, and has made a lasting contribution to physics, astronomy, biology, meteorology and other sciences. The Greek method of acquiring scientific knowledge was mainly speculative, hence science as such could make little headway during the time of the Greeks.
The Arabs who were more realistic and practical in their approach adopted the experimental method to harness scientific knowledge. Observation and experiment formed the vehicle of their scientific pursuits, hence they gave a new outlook to science of which the world had been totally unaware. Their achievements in the field of experimental science added a golden chapter to the annals of scientific knowledge and opened a new vista for the growth of modern sciences. Al-Ghazali was the follower of Aristotle in logic, but among Muslims, Ishraqi and Ibn-iTaimiyya were first to undertake the systematic refutation of Greek logic. Abu Bakr Razi criticised Aristotle's first figure and followed the inductive spirit which was reformulated by John Stuart Mill.
Ibn-i-Hazm in his well known work Scope of Logic lays stress on sense perception as a source of knowledge and Ibn-i-Taimiyya in his Refuttion of Logic proves beyond doubt that induction is the only sure form of argument, which ultimately gave birth to the method of observation and experiment. It is absolutely wrong to assume that experimental method was formulated in Europe. Roger Bacon, who, in the west is known as the originator of experimental method in Europe, had himself received his training from the pupils of Spanish Moors, and had learnt everything from Muslim sources.
The influence of Ibn Haitham on Roger Bacon is clearly visible in his works. Europe was very slow to recognise the Islamic origin of her much advertised scientific (experimental) method. Writing in the Making of Humanity Briffault admits, "It was under their successors at the Oxford School that Roger Bacon learned Arabic and Arabic science. Neither Roger Bacon nor his later namesake has any title to be credited with having introduced the experimental method. Roger Bacon was no more than one of the apostles of Muslim science and method to Christian Europe; and he never wearied of declaring that the knowledge of Arabic and Arabic science was for his contemporaries the only way to true knowledge.
read on; salems2.tripod.com/sciences.htm
In these troubled times, when Islam is under seemingly perpetual attack, it is imperative to consider how much the West owes to the religion’s spiritual insights. Bestselling author Tim Wallace-Murphy presents the first major popular book to examine the common roots of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam and to reveal Islam’s immense contributions to our society—which included laying the foundations for our systems of education, astronomy, mathematics, and architecture. He also illustrates how the European Western powers helped foment the current crisis in the Middle East, and why we must strive for a just, equitable solution to these problems. Understanding can begin with this compelling acknowledgment of our shared spiritual heritage, including religious tolerance, respect for learning, and the concepts of chivalry and brotherhood.
www.powells.com/biblio?isbn=1842932012
While Europe was being crushed and brutalised by the Dark Ages, Islam bloomed. Because the Prophet Mohammed enjoined followers to study and to revere wisdom, many Greek sciences were protected and investigated by Muslim scholars [my comments: and they were revised]. But perhaps more tellingly, under Islamic rule and at the height of the Moorish Empire, the three great monotheistic faiths coexisted in relative harmony, enjoying a high degree of religious tolerance in a flourishing intellectual and artistic milieu.
Wallace-Murphy points out that the many legacies we have received from this happy coexistence includes the fact that the Muslim colleges formed in Andalusia became the model for Oxford and Cambridge colleges in the United Kingdom. Europe’s first effective medical school was founded by Jewish doctors who had been trained in the Muslim world. Islamic culture also gave the West navigation, mathematics, and Gothic architecture.
Perhaps most of us know that alchemy traces its name and origins to Islam but you might not realise the magnificent stained glass “rose” window that dominates Chartres Cathedral is a legacy of Islam and the alchemists who devised this art. This influence later birthed the beauty of the Renaissance and the magnificent blossoming of Western art and culture.
www.newdawnbooks.info/Reviews/Wh … or_Us.html
HRH, The Prince of Wales:
. . . we have underestimated the importance of 800 years of Islamic society and culture in Spain between the 8th and 15th centuries. The contribution of Muslim Spain to the preservation of classical learning during the Dark Ages, and to the first flowerings of the Renaissance, has long been recognised. But Islamic Spain was much more than a mere larder where Hellenistic knowledge was kept for later consumption by the emerging modern Western world. Not only did Muslim Spain gather and preserve the intellectual content of ancient Greek and Roman civilisation, it also interpreted and expanded upon that civilisation, and made a vital contribution of its own in so many fields of human endeavour - in science, astronomy, mathematics, algebra (itself an Arabic word), law, history, medicine, pharmacology, optics, agriculture, architecture, theology, music. Averroes and Avenzoor, like their counterparts Avicenna and Rhazes in the East, contributed to the study and practice of medicine in ways from which Europe benefited for centuries afterwards.
Islam nurtured and preserved the quest for learning. In the words of the tradition, 'the ink of the scholar is more sacred than the blood of the martyr'. Cordoba in the 10th century was by far the most civilised city of Europe. We know of lending libraries in Spain at the time King Alfred was making terrible blunders with the culinary arts in this country. It is said that the 400,000 volumes in its ruler's library amounted to more books than all the libraries of the rest of Europe put together. That was made possible because the Muslim world acquired from China the skill of making paper more than 400 years before the rest of non-Muslim Europe. Many of the traits on which modern Europe prides itself came to it from Muslim Spain. Diplomacy, free trade, open borders, the techniques of academic research, of anthropology, etiquette, fashion, various types of medicine, hospitals, all came from this great city of cities.
Medieval Islam was a religion of remarkable tolerance for its time, allowing Jews and Christians the right to practise their inherited beliefs, and setting an example which was not, unfortunately, copied for many centuries in the West. The surprise, ladies and gentlemen, is the extent to which Islam has been a part of Europe for so long, first in Spain, then in the Balkans, and the extent to which it has contributed so much towards the civilisation which we all too often think of, wrongly, as entirely Western. Islam is part of our past and our present, in all fields of human endeavour. It has helped to create modern Europe. It is part of our own inheritance, not a thing apart. 1001 Inventions: Discover the Muslim Heritage of Our World
www.twf.org/Library/Renaissance.html
Maria Rosa Menocal:
"[It] is no exaggeration to say that what we presumptuously call 'Western' culture is owed in large measure to the Andalusian enlightenment...."
Akbar S. Ahmed:
"It is well to recall that Islam not only caused Islamic civilization to develop but also enabled the European Renaissance to take root and grow. The time when Islam was most strongly established was also the time when art, culture and literature flourished, whether in Spain or, later, under the Ottomans, the Safavids and the Mughals. Christian Europe was enveloped in darkness until Islam came to the Iberian peninsula. For centuries Islam fed Greek, Sanskrit and Chinese ideas into Europe. Slowly and steadily Europe began to absorb those ideas. In England, France, Germany and Italy society began to explore literature and art with a new perspective; thus the seeds of the Renaissance were sown". --
David Self:
We are indebted to the Arabic world not only for arithmetic but also for algebra and trigonometry. Logarithms were invented by a mathematician called Al-Khwarizmi in the 7th century. Test tubes, the compass and the first surgical tools were all pioneered by Muslim inventors. A thousand years ago, it is said, Baghdad had 60 hospitals.
This scientific flowering was accompanied by the establishment of the first universities - or madrassahs. In a madrassah, the sheik or professor taught, literally, from a chair. He was assisted by readers. When the west eventually replicated such places of learning, we borrowed such terms.
Jared Diamond:
In the Middle Ages the flow of technology was overwhelmingly from Islam to Europe, rather than from Europe to Islam as it is today. Only around A.D. 1500 did the net direction of flow begin to reverse. -- p. 253
www.twf.org/Library/Renaissance.html
Wow! isn't it a wonder that every verse of the Quran is proven to be true:
21:107 and we have not sent you but as mercy for all the worlds.
We did not send you, O Muhammad (s), except as a mercy, that is, to [give] mercy, to all the worlds, [the worlds of] mankind and jinn through you.
ps: the first paragraph of this is very important in terms of modern science and engineering being based on Islam too, for without the 'experimental method' science and inventions would not have got further than theories in the West:
Experimental Method
Observation and experiment are the two sources of scientific knowledge. Aristotle was the father of the Greek sciences, and has made a lasting contribution to physics, astronomy, biology, meteorology and other sciences. The Greek method of acquiring scientific knowledge was mainly speculative, hence science as such could make little headway during the time of the Greeks.
The Arabs who were more realistic and practical in their approach adopted the experimental method to harness scientific knowledge. Observation and experiment formed the vehicle of their scientific pursuits, hence they gave a new outlook to science of which the world had been totally unaware. Their achievements in the field of experimental science added a golden chapter to the annals of scientific knowledge and opened a new vista for the growth of modern sciences. Al-Ghazali was the follower of Aristotle in logic, but among Muslims, Ishraqi and Ibn-iTaimiyya were first to undertake the systematic refutation of Greek logic. Abu Bakr Razi criticised Aristotle's first figure and followed the inductive spirit which was reformulated by John Stuart Mill.
Ibn-i-Hazm in his well known work Scope of Logic lays stress on sense perception as a source of knowledge and Ibn-i-Taimiyya in his Refuttion of Logic proves beyond doubt that induction is the only sure form of argument, which ultimately gave birth to the method of observation and experiment. It is absolutely wrong to assume that experimental method was formulated in Europe. Roger Bacon, who, in the west is known as the originator of experimental method in Europe, had himself received his training from the pupils of Spanish Moors, and had learnt everything from Muslim sources.
The influence of Ibn Haitham on Roger Bacon is clearly visible in his works. Europe was very slow to recognise the Islamic origin of her much advertised scientific (experimental) method. Writing in the Making of Humanity Briffault admits, "It was under their successors at the Oxford School that Roger Bacon learned Arabic and Arabic science. Neither Roger Bacon nor his later namesake has any title to be credited with having introduced the experimental method. Roger Bacon was no more than one of the apostles of Muslim science and method to Christian Europe; and he never wearied of declaring that the knowledge of Arabic and Arabic science was for his contemporaries the only way to true knowledge.
read on; salems2.tripod.com/sciences.htm
In these troubled times, when Islam is under seemingly perpetual attack, it is imperative to consider how much the West owes to the religion’s spiritual insights. Bestselling author Tim Wallace-Murphy presents the first major popular book to examine the common roots of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam and to reveal Islam’s immense contributions to our society—which included laying the foundations for our systems of education, astronomy, mathematics, and architecture. He also illustrates how the European Western powers helped foment the current crisis in the Middle East, and why we must strive for a just, equitable solution to these problems. Understanding can begin with this compelling acknowledgment of our shared spiritual heritage, including religious tolerance, respect for learning, and the concepts of chivalry and brotherhood.
www.powells.com/biblio?isbn=1842932012
While Europe was being crushed and brutalised by the Dark Ages, Islam bloomed. Because the Prophet Mohammed enjoined followers to study and to revere wisdom, many Greek sciences were protected and investigated by Muslim scholars [my comments: and they were revised]. But perhaps more tellingly, under Islamic rule and at the height of the Moorish Empire, the three great monotheistic faiths coexisted in relative harmony, enjoying a high degree of religious tolerance in a flourishing intellectual and artistic milieu.
Wallace-Murphy points out that the many legacies we have received from this happy coexistence includes the fact that the Muslim colleges formed in Andalusia became the model for Oxford and Cambridge colleges in the United Kingdom. Europe’s first effective medical school was founded by Jewish doctors who had been trained in the Muslim world. Islamic culture also gave the West navigation, mathematics, and Gothic architecture.
Perhaps most of us know that alchemy traces its name and origins to Islam but you might not realise the magnificent stained glass “rose” window that dominates Chartres Cathedral is a legacy of Islam and the alchemists who devised this art. This influence later birthed the beauty of the Renaissance and the magnificent blossoming of Western art and culture.
www.newdawnbooks.info/Reviews/Wh … or_Us.html
HRH, The Prince of Wales:
. . . we have underestimated the importance of 800 years of Islamic society and culture in Spain between the 8th and 15th centuries. The contribution of Muslim Spain to the preservation of classical learning during the Dark Ages, and to the first flowerings of the Renaissance, has long been recognised. But Islamic Spain was much more than a mere larder where Hellenistic knowledge was kept for later consumption by the emerging modern Western world. Not only did Muslim Spain gather and preserve the intellectual content of ancient Greek and Roman civilisation, it also interpreted and expanded upon that civilisation, and made a vital contribution of its own in so many fields of human endeavour - in science, astronomy, mathematics, algebra (itself an Arabic word), law, history, medicine, pharmacology, optics, agriculture, architecture, theology, music. Averroes and Avenzoor, like their counterparts Avicenna and Rhazes in the East, contributed to the study and practice of medicine in ways from which Europe benefited for centuries afterwards.
Islam nurtured and preserved the quest for learning. In the words of the tradition, 'the ink of the scholar is more sacred than the blood of the martyr'. Cordoba in the 10th century was by far the most civilised city of Europe. We know of lending libraries in Spain at the time King Alfred was making terrible blunders with the culinary arts in this country. It is said that the 400,000 volumes in its ruler's library amounted to more books than all the libraries of the rest of Europe put together. That was made possible because the Muslim world acquired from China the skill of making paper more than 400 years before the rest of non-Muslim Europe. Many of the traits on which modern Europe prides itself came to it from Muslim Spain. Diplomacy, free trade, open borders, the techniques of academic research, of anthropology, etiquette, fashion, various types of medicine, hospitals, all came from this great city of cities.
Medieval Islam was a religion of remarkable tolerance for its time, allowing Jews and Christians the right to practise their inherited beliefs, and setting an example which was not, unfortunately, copied for many centuries in the West. The surprise, ladies and gentlemen, is the extent to which Islam has been a part of Europe for so long, first in Spain, then in the Balkans, and the extent to which it has contributed so much towards the civilisation which we all too often think of, wrongly, as entirely Western. Islam is part of our past and our present, in all fields of human endeavour. It has helped to create modern Europe. It is part of our own inheritance, not a thing apart. 1001 Inventions: Discover the Muslim Heritage of Our World
www.twf.org/Library/Renaissance.html
Maria Rosa Menocal:
"[It] is no exaggeration to say that what we presumptuously call 'Western' culture is owed in large measure to the Andalusian enlightenment...."
Akbar S. Ahmed:
"It is well to recall that Islam not only caused Islamic civilization to develop but also enabled the European Renaissance to take root and grow. The time when Islam was most strongly established was also the time when art, culture and literature flourished, whether in Spain or, later, under the Ottomans, the Safavids and the Mughals. Christian Europe was enveloped in darkness until Islam came to the Iberian peninsula. For centuries Islam fed Greek, Sanskrit and Chinese ideas into Europe. Slowly and steadily Europe began to absorb those ideas. In England, France, Germany and Italy society began to explore literature and art with a new perspective; thus the seeds of the Renaissance were sown". --
David Self:
We are indebted to the Arabic world not only for arithmetic but also for algebra and trigonometry. Logarithms were invented by a mathematician called Al-Khwarizmi in the 7th century. Test tubes, the compass and the first surgical tools were all pioneered by Muslim inventors. A thousand years ago, it is said, Baghdad had 60 hospitals.
This scientific flowering was accompanied by the establishment of the first universities - or madrassahs. In a madrassah, the sheik or professor taught, literally, from a chair. He was assisted by readers. When the west eventually replicated such places of learning, we borrowed such terms.
Jared Diamond:
In the Middle Ages the flow of technology was overwhelmingly from Islam to Europe, rather than from Europe to Islam as it is today. Only around A.D. 1500 did the net direction of flow begin to reverse. -- p. 253
www.twf.org/Library/Renaissance.html
Wow! isn't it a wonder that every verse of the Quran is proven to be true
:21:107 and we have not sent you but as mercy for all the worlds.
We did not send you, O Muhammad (s), except as a mercy, that is, to [give] mercy, to all the worlds, [the worlds of] mankind and jinn through you.
thanks for that; it was from about a year back; the references for his other speeches are: 1; one of his old videos called 'Ihya Uloom ud Deen', 2; a video called 'Islamic civilisation'
Bhaktajan II
Hare Krishna Yogi
- Messages
- 2,277
- Reaction score
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- 63
Where these used in Roman Bath houses?
Was Columbus looking for a shorter route to Arabia?
Where in the time historic line did Arab Chemists find themselves living in Arabian territories?
Birth of Western Civilization: Birth of Western civilization: Greece, Rome, and Europe to c.1000 CE - The Flow of History
NiceCupOfTea
Pathetic earthlings
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how about soap for 1?
"The credit for manufacturing soap goes to Arab chemists, who introduced it to the world".
SCIENTIFIC INVENTIONS Muslims distinguished themselves not only as theoretical scientists and scientific thinkers
muslims never invented soap, i think the babylonians might have done though and the Celts were using it long before muslims.
although i understand that some Muslims find it very funny to think of all non muslims as being filthy and muslims being clean, I spent some time with some muslim relatives who took great delight in telling each other and me how bad Sikhs must smell because they never shave the underarms and pubic hair like muslims to.
its just another example of veiled racisms which is common in the islamic world.
Bhaktajan II
Hare Krishna Yogi
- Messages
- 2,277
- Reaction score
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- 63
I do not think any one doubts that Intelligent capable savvy men have solely authored great inventions ---men from what is currently famed as Muslim Countries.
But, IMO, Islam was Not involved in those inventor's achievements.
It was Habibi-Joe-Contractor that got the first marketing rights because he was a capitalist minded entrepaneur. He just happen to live in a Muslim Country.
a] The Prophet's testimony must be believed as to what Allah pronounces.
b] Without the 'experimental method' the best recipes would be bland.
The 'experimental method' is exactly how "Cooking Recipes" are perfected.
All Food conglumerates have Cooking labs & technicians always doing R&D to improve their market placement.
Demographically speaking, when Rome & Greece etc, fell into the Dark Ages ---where did the well-to-do emmigrate to ---while still gaining the benefit of the Silk-Road's offerrings?
But, IMO, Islam was Not involved in those inventor's achievements.
It was Habibi-Joe-Contractor that got the first marketing rights because he was a capitalist minded entrepaneur. He just happen to live in a Muslim Country.
a] The Prophet's testimony must be believed as to what Allah pronounces.
b] Without the 'experimental method' the best recipes would be bland.
The 'experimental method' is exactly how "Cooking Recipes" are perfected.
All Food conglumerates have Cooking labs & technicians always doing R&D to improve their market placement.
Demographically speaking, when Rome & Greece etc, fell into the Dark Ages ---where did the well-to-do emmigrate to ---while still gaining the benefit of the Silk-Road's offerrings?
NiceCupOfTea
Pathetic earthlings
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NiceCupOfTea
Pathetic earthlings
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- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 0
i must say sheik hamza yusuf has gone down in my estimation after all that, i can liken his claims to that of a man smelling his own farts and telling everyone how good it is.
radarmark
Quaker-in-the-Making
Whoa there! When the Arabs in Damascus and Bagdad were washing with soap in bathtubs with hot water most European Christians only used water to test a witch to death. While clearly Abdullah had a source that was in error, let's hold off piling on.
I still believe that we borrowed zero from the Arabs (and Fibonacci directly syas he did) and they saved many Greek and Latin classics from the fires of Christianity gone amuck.
Well, let us just agree to disagree. 1John1:5 is scientifically discernable as an addition, besides why did not the early Church Fathers bother to use it as source material when they were discussing the Trinity during the Nicean era?
If being a trinitarian is necessary to being a Christian, what about the other famous fractures -- like monophysitism or Revelations (the Ethiopeans do not consider it part of canon, the Armenians rcommend you do not believe it, no Orthodox Church uses it in Litergy). Do these beleifs (which go back much further than your or my Protestantism) make them "Sects" or "cults"?
It is possible to consider Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three separate divine entities or aspects of one entity whgich is greater than any of the three and still believe in the literal diety of Christ Jesus. These may be different than your beliefs but I (and most of the world) do not believe either against him or his teachings.
P.S. the vast majority of Quakers are trinitarians, we are not very exclusionist, so unitarians, universalists, Buddhists, Jews, atheists, and pagans all are welcome (at least to most Meetings).
If you wish to consider these groups along with Unitarians, Universalists, and Quakers as "sects" or "cults" that is an abuse of either term. If you believe that non-Trinitarians and Monophysmatics and the Armenian Church and the Ethiopean Church and the Coptic Church all "against him and Christian teachings", I suggest you pay attention to the plank in your eye before you point out the mote in ours.
Pax et amor vincunt omnia, radarmark
I still believe that we borrowed zero from the Arabs (and Fibonacci directly syas he did) and they saved many Greek and Latin classics from the fires of Christianity gone amuck.
Well, let us just agree to disagree. 1John1:5 is scientifically discernable as an addition, besides why did not the early Church Fathers bother to use it as source material when they were discussing the Trinity during the Nicean era?
If being a trinitarian is necessary to being a Christian, what about the other famous fractures -- like monophysitism or Revelations (the Ethiopeans do not consider it part of canon, the Armenians rcommend you do not believe it, no Orthodox Church uses it in Litergy). Do these beleifs (which go back much further than your or my Protestantism) make them "Sects" or "cults"?
It is possible to consider Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three separate divine entities or aspects of one entity whgich is greater than any of the three and still believe in the literal diety of Christ Jesus. These may be different than your beliefs but I (and most of the world) do not believe either against him or his teachings.
P.S. the vast majority of Quakers are trinitarians, we are not very exclusionist, so unitarians, universalists, Buddhists, Jews, atheists, and pagans all are welcome (at least to most Meetings).
If you wish to consider these groups along with Unitarians, Universalists, and Quakers as "sects" or "cults" that is an abuse of either term. If you believe that non-Trinitarians and Monophysmatics and the Armenian Church and the Ethiopean Church and the Coptic Church all "against him and Christian teachings", I suggest you pay attention to the plank in your eye before you point out the mote in ours.
Pax et amor vincunt omnia, radarmark
Romans may have got it of the muslims; however even orientalists admit that there has been a massive cover up of the origins of western civilisation:
Western historians, in general, have removed the Islamic source with regard to every single change that affected science and civilisation at the origin of Western civilisation, and modern civilisation, and then, each and everyone has substituted a number of explanations for such changes within their field of study. This systematic suppression of the Islamic source of modern science and civilisation has been, however, noted by individual historians who have re-considered the history of their subject. Thus, in his `History of Dams,’ Norman Smith, began his chapter devoted to Islamic dams, by noting how historians of civil engineering have ignored the Muslim period, and have claimed that nothing was done by the Muslims, even worse, they have blamed the Muslims for the decline of irrigation and other engineering activities, and their eventual extinction, which is `both unjust and untrue.’ [1]
Winder, too, observes, that even in one of the standard works dealing with the legacy of Islamic civilisation, Islamic mechanical engineering is completely set aside.[2]
A similar point is raised by Pacey, who points to the same generalised opinion that hydraulic engineering made little progress under the Muslims, whilst in truth, Muslims extended the application of mechanical and hydraulic technology enormously. [3]
In the development of agriculture, Cherbonneau makes the same observation, questioning the absence of reference to the Muslim contribution, insisting that `If we took the bother to open up and consult the old manuscripts, so many views will be changed, so many prejudices will be destroyed.’ [4]
Studying the history of Cartography, Harley and Woodward have noted how it seems nobody has mapped anything from the fall of Rome in the late 5th century to the fall of Constantinople in the 15th, again, completely setting aside any Islamic contribution.[5]
Addressing the history of astronomy, Krisciunas did not fail to notice how astronomical research has been made to fall `into a dazed slumber following Ptolemy (c 90-168 CE) not to reawaken until the time of Copernicus (1473-1543),’ totally bypassing centuries of Muslim contributions, except to acknowledge them as book burning fanatics. [6]
In mathematics, O’connor and Robertson make the same point, that, the widely held opinion is that after a brilliant period for mathematics when the Greeks laid the foundations for modern mathematics, there was a period of stagnation before the Europeans took over where the Greeks left off; whilst in truth O’cconor and Robertson note, modern mathematics owes so much to Muslim mathematicians centuries before the 16th.[7]
Talbot Rice, equally, hardly fails to note how the historians of art have set aside the Islamic role, turning it into pale imitation of others, whilst he offers both text and photographic evidence to prove the inanity of these widely held theories. [8]
This systematic suppression of the Islamic role in the rise of modern science and civilisation, through its impact on the West, has led to conclusions that hostility to Islam was the principal reason for it. Watt, thus, observes:
`When one keeps hold of all the facets of the medieval confrontation of Christianity and Islam, it is clear that the influence of Islam on Western Christendom is greater than is usually realised…. But, Because Europe was reacting against Islam, it belittled the influence of the Saracens and exaggerated its dependence on its Greek and Roman heritage.’ [9]
The same enmity towards Islam is seen by Glubb as the reason why `the indebtedness of Western Christendom to Arab civilisation was systematically played down, if not completely denied.’ [10]
Draper, equally, talks of the systematic manner in which the literature of Europe has contrived to put out of sight our scientific obligations to the Muslims; injustice founded on religious rancour and national conceit. [11]
Even Prince Charles observes: `There is also much ignorance about the debt our own culture and civilisation owe to the Islamic world… which stems from the straightjacket of history, which we have inherited…. Because we have tended to see Islam as the enemy of the West, as an alien culture, society, and system of belief, we have tended to ignore or erase its great relevance to our own history.' [12]
Although the systematic suppression of the Islamic role from mainstream Western history has been noted, hardly anything has been said how this is done. This is the object of this work...., Indeed, Western `historians’ dispose of enough expertise to build whole theories around the changes that affected their science or subject, and it is easy for them to fabricate whole histories, just as Hartner puts it, by `twisting and suppressing facts at the author's pleasure.’[13] By using their expertise in their specific subject, adding all the nitty gritty of academia, referencing, statements backed by other statements from similarly minded historians, they can convince whomsoever fails to see the wider picture, or is not knowledgeable enough to challenge them. [14]
www.kitaabun.com - NAVBAR_TITLE
I know the first few posts [speeches of Shaykh hamza Yusuf] is a bit hard, for those unaquainted with this information, to swallow, so lets see who exactly Shayk Hamza Yusuf is to see wether he can be trusted to be impartial
Shaykh Hamza Yusuf is a white western, former Christian, convert to Islam. His siblings and parents [apart from his Sister?] remain non-Muslims
Shaykh Hamza Yusuf has brought a background of being very fair to non-Muslims, especially westerners, in his speeches and views; he even said about people who are usually thought as KAAFIRS who are destined to an eternity in hell, that they are martyrs [refering to 911 firefighters, basing it on an opinion that Allah punishes only those who have received a compelling message of Islam and thereafter remain non-Muslim and die as one]
He said about the English non-Muslims in general 'I love them'
he has stressed that gratitude should be a two way thing and that Muslims should be gratefull for all the good things coming out of the West such as medicines and vaccinations for deseases etc,
Hence from all of that we can see how Shaykh Hamza is only too keen to stress any good of non-Muslims at all, and now Shaykh Hamza is oficially a 'bridge builder' between Islam and the West; he even got invited to the whitehouse after 911 by Bush
who ever is a fan of the Shaykh will know that he is very intelligent and delves into the roots of any issue to come out with the truth regarding it, and being the traditional great Islamic Scholar he is, he is sure to base his assertions on profound and verified evidences
Thus we can be sure that when he asserts Muslim contribution to Western civilisation is to the extent where he has coined the phrase 'Islam gave birth to the western civilisation' that he would have done his homework good and proper before doing so!
Even the 'enemy' [corporate media that is usually biased against Islam] can't ignore these facts:
Muslim inventions that shaped the modern world
January 29, 2010|By Olivia Sterns for CNN
Think of the origins of that staple of modern life, the cup of coffee, and Italy often springs to mind.
But in fact, Yemen is where the ubiquitous brew has its true origins.
Along with the first university, and even the toothbrush, it is among surprising Muslim inventions that have shaped the world we live in today.
The origins of these fundamental ideas and objects -- the basis of everything from the bicycle to musical scales -- are the focus of "1001 Inventions," a book celebrating "the forgotten" history of 1,000 years of Muslim heritage.
"There's a hole in our knowledge, we leap frog from the Renaissance to the Greeks," professor Salim al-Hassani, Chairman of the Foundation for Science, Technology and Civilisation, and editor of the book told CNN.
"1001 Inventions" is now an exhibition at London's Science Museum. Hassani hopes the exhibition will highlight the contributions of non-Western cultures -- like the Muslim empire that once covered Spain and Portugal, Southern Italy and stretched as far as parts of China -- to present day civilization.
Here Hassani shares his top 10 outstanding Muslim inventions:
1. Surgery
Around the year 1,000, the celebrated doctor Al Zahrawi published a 1,500 page illustrated encyclopedia of surgery that was used in Europe as a medical reference for the next 500 years. Among his many inventions, Zahrawi discovered the use of dissolving cat gut to stitch wounds -- beforehand a second surgery had to be performed to remove sutures. He also reportedly performed the first caesarean operation and created the first pair of forceps.
2. Coffee
Now the Western world's drink du jour, coffee was first brewed in Yemen around the 9th century. In its earliest days, coffee helped Sufis stay up during late nights of devotion. Later brought to Cairo by a group of students, the coffee buzz soon caught on around the empire. By the 13th century it reached Turkey, but not until the 16th century did the beans start boiling in Europe, brought to Italy by a Venetian trader.
3. Flying machine
"Abbas ibn Firnas was the first person to make a real attempt to construct a flying machine and fly," said Hassani. In the 9th century he designed a winged apparatus, roughly resembling a bird costume. In his most famous trial near Cordoba in Spain, Firnas flew upward for a few moments, before falling to the ground and partially breaking his back. His designs would undoubtedly have been an inspiration for famed Italian artist and inventor Leonardo da Vinci's hundreds of years later, said Hassani.
4. University
In 859 a young princess named Fatima al-Firhi founded the first degree-granting university in Fez, Morocco. Her sister Miriam founded an adjacent mosque and together the complex became the al-Qarawiyyin Mosque and University. Still operating almost 1,200 years later, Hassani says he hopes the center will remind people that learning is at the core of the Islamic tradition and that the story of the al-Firhi sisters will inspire young Muslim women around the world today.
5. Algebra
The word algebra comes from the title of a Persian mathematician's famous 9th century treatise "Kitab al-Jabr Wa l-Mugabala" which translates roughly as "The Book of Reasoning and Balancing." Built on the roots of Greek and Hindu systems, the new algebraic order was a unifying system for rational numbers, irrational numbers and geometrical magnitudes. The same mathematician, Al-Khwarizmi, was also the first to introduce the concept of raising a number to a power.
6. Optics
"Many of the most important advances in the study of optics come from the Muslim world," says Hassani. Around the year 1000 Ibn al-Haitham proved that humans see objects by light reflecting off of them and entering the eye, dismissing Euclid and Ptolemy's theories that light was emitted from the eye itself. This great Muslim physicist also discovered the camera obscura phenomenon, which explains how the eye sees images upright due to the connection between the optic nerve and the brain.
7. Music
Muslim musicians have had a profound impact on Europe, dating back to Charlemagne tried to compete with the music of Baghdad and Cordoba, according to Hassani. Among many instruments that arrived in Europe through the Middle East are the lute and the rahab, an ancestor of the violin. Modern musical scales are also said to derive from the Arabic alphabet.
8. Toothbrush
According to Hassani, the Prophet Mohammed popularized the use of the first toothbrush in around 600. Using a twig from the Meswak tree, he cleaned his teeth and freshened his breath. Substances similar to Meswak are used in modern toothpaste.
9. The crank
Many of the basics of modern automatics were first put to use in the Muslim world, including the revolutionary crank-connecting rod system. By converting rotary motion to linear motion, the crank enables the lifting of heavy objects with relative ease. This technology, discovered by Al-Jazari in the 12th century, exploded across the globe, leading to everything from the bicycle to the internal combustion engine.
10. Hospitals
"Hospitals as we know them today, with wards and teaching centers, come from 9th century Egypt," explained Hassani. The first such medical center was the Ahmad ibn Tulun Hospital, founded in 872 in Cairo. Tulun hospital provided free care for anyone who needed it -- a policy based on the Muslim tradition of caring for all who are sick. From Cairo, such hospitals spread around the Muslim world.
For more information on muslim inventions go to: muslimheritage.com. For more information about the exhibition at London's Science Museum go to: science museum.org.uk
Muslim inventions that shaped the modern world - CNN
Shaykh Hamza Yusuf is a white western, former Christian, convert to Islam. His siblings and parents [apart from his Sister?] remain non-Muslims
Shaykh Hamza Yusuf has brought a background of being very fair to non-Muslims, especially westerners, in his speeches and views; he even said about people who are usually thought as KAAFIRS who are destined to an eternity in hell, that they are martyrs [refering to 911 firefighters, basing it on an opinion that Allah punishes only those who have received a compelling message of Islam and thereafter remain non-Muslim and die as one]
He said about the English non-Muslims in general 'I love them'
he has stressed that gratitude should be a two way thing and that Muslims should be gratefull for all the good things coming out of the West such as medicines and vaccinations for deseases etc,
Hence from all of that we can see how Shaykh Hamza is only too keen to stress any good of non-Muslims at all, and now Shaykh Hamza is oficially a 'bridge builder' between Islam and the West; he even got invited to the whitehouse after 911 by Bush
who ever is a fan of the Shaykh will know that he is very intelligent and delves into the roots of any issue to come out with the truth regarding it, and being the traditional great Islamic Scholar he is, he is sure to base his assertions on profound and verified evidences
Thus we can be sure that when he asserts Muslim contribution to Western civilisation is to the extent where he has coined the phrase 'Islam gave birth to the western civilisation' that he would have done his homework good and proper before doing so!
Even the 'enemy' [corporate media that is usually biased against Islam] can't ignore these facts
:Muslim inventions that shaped the modern world
January 29, 2010|By Olivia Sterns for CNN
Think of the origins of that staple of modern life, the cup of coffee, and Italy often springs to mind.
But in fact, Yemen is where the ubiquitous brew has its true origins.
Along with the first university, and even the toothbrush, it is among surprising Muslim inventions that have shaped the world we live in today.
The origins of these fundamental ideas and objects -- the basis of everything from the bicycle to musical scales -- are the focus of "1001 Inventions," a book celebrating "the forgotten" history of 1,000 years of Muslim heritage.
"There's a hole in our knowledge, we leap frog from the Renaissance to the Greeks," professor Salim al-Hassani, Chairman of the Foundation for Science, Technology and Civilisation, and editor of the book told CNN.
"1001 Inventions" is now an exhibition at London's Science Museum. Hassani hopes the exhibition will highlight the contributions of non-Western cultures -- like the Muslim empire that once covered Spain and Portugal, Southern Italy and stretched as far as parts of China -- to present day civilization.
Here Hassani shares his top 10 outstanding Muslim inventions:
1. Surgery
Around the year 1,000, the celebrated doctor Al Zahrawi published a 1,500 page illustrated encyclopedia of surgery that was used in Europe as a medical reference for the next 500 years. Among his many inventions, Zahrawi discovered the use of dissolving cat gut to stitch wounds -- beforehand a second surgery had to be performed to remove sutures. He also reportedly performed the first caesarean operation and created the first pair of forceps.
2. Coffee
Now the Western world's drink du jour, coffee was first brewed in Yemen around the 9th century. In its earliest days, coffee helped Sufis stay up during late nights of devotion. Later brought to Cairo by a group of students, the coffee buzz soon caught on around the empire. By the 13th century it reached Turkey, but not until the 16th century did the beans start boiling in Europe, brought to Italy by a Venetian trader.
3. Flying machine
"Abbas ibn Firnas was the first person to make a real attempt to construct a flying machine and fly," said Hassani. In the 9th century he designed a winged apparatus, roughly resembling a bird costume. In his most famous trial near Cordoba in Spain, Firnas flew upward for a few moments, before falling to the ground and partially breaking his back. His designs would undoubtedly have been an inspiration for famed Italian artist and inventor Leonardo da Vinci's hundreds of years later, said Hassani.
4. University
In 859 a young princess named Fatima al-Firhi founded the first degree-granting university in Fez, Morocco. Her sister Miriam founded an adjacent mosque and together the complex became the al-Qarawiyyin Mosque and University. Still operating almost 1,200 years later, Hassani says he hopes the center will remind people that learning is at the core of the Islamic tradition and that the story of the al-Firhi sisters will inspire young Muslim women around the world today.
5. Algebra
The word algebra comes from the title of a Persian mathematician's famous 9th century treatise "Kitab al-Jabr Wa l-Mugabala" which translates roughly as "The Book of Reasoning and Balancing." Built on the roots of Greek and Hindu systems, the new algebraic order was a unifying system for rational numbers, irrational numbers and geometrical magnitudes. The same mathematician, Al-Khwarizmi, was also the first to introduce the concept of raising a number to a power.
6. Optics
"Many of the most important advances in the study of optics come from the Muslim world," says Hassani. Around the year 1000 Ibn al-Haitham proved that humans see objects by light reflecting off of them and entering the eye, dismissing Euclid and Ptolemy's theories that light was emitted from the eye itself. This great Muslim physicist also discovered the camera obscura phenomenon, which explains how the eye sees images upright due to the connection between the optic nerve and the brain.
7. Music
Muslim musicians have had a profound impact on Europe, dating back to Charlemagne tried to compete with the music of Baghdad and Cordoba, according to Hassani. Among many instruments that arrived in Europe through the Middle East are the lute and the rahab, an ancestor of the violin. Modern musical scales are also said to derive from the Arabic alphabet.
8. Toothbrush
According to Hassani, the Prophet Mohammed popularized the use of the first toothbrush in around 600. Using a twig from the Meswak tree, he cleaned his teeth and freshened his breath. Substances similar to Meswak are used in modern toothpaste.
9. The crank
Many of the basics of modern automatics were first put to use in the Muslim world, including the revolutionary crank-connecting rod system. By converting rotary motion to linear motion, the crank enables the lifting of heavy objects with relative ease. This technology, discovered by Al-Jazari in the 12th century, exploded across the globe, leading to everything from the bicycle to the internal combustion engine.
10. Hospitals
"Hospitals as we know them today, with wards and teaching centers, come from 9th century Egypt," explained Hassani. The first such medical center was the Ahmad ibn Tulun Hospital, founded in 872 in Cairo. Tulun hospital provided free care for anyone who needed it -- a policy based on the Muslim tradition of caring for all who are sick. From Cairo, such hospitals spread around the Muslim world.
For more information on muslim inventions go to: muslimheritage.com. For more information about the exhibition at London's Science Museum go to: science museum.org.uk
Muslim inventions that shaped the modern world - CNN
bananabrain
awkward squadnik
of course, this is all very interesting, we know that the islamic world was at the forefront of scientific progress until about the time of the last attempt on vienna and the battle of lepanto, after which it went into decline. but that was four or five centuries ago. what has the islamic world been up to since? it's not like it hasn't tried to modernise, but some serious mistakes were made (the turks took far too long to permit printing presses and, generally, where education was liberalised, it was done in a highly stupid way) and i would argue further that oil economics has really spoiled everywhere it has touched, giving, essentially, huge financial rewards without the discipline of intellectual attainment in the science base.
the issue for me is this: what patents and publications are now coming out of the islamic world? it's all very well to go on about how great things were in the middle ages, nobody's disputing that. the greeks also go on about being the inventors of philosophy and geometry and all that - but they've pretty much let things slip over the centuries.
what is islam doing now to refresh its own civilisation? theocracies, dictatorships idiotic political agendas and polemic simply won't substitute for education and investment in business, science and culture as i think people are now abundantly aware in the islamic world. islamism offer no answer whatsoever, abdullah - and i think hamza yusuf says as much elsewhere. what do you think?
b'shalom
bananabrain
the issue for me is this: what patents and publications are now coming out of the islamic world? it's all very well to go on about how great things were in the middle ages, nobody's disputing that. the greeks also go on about being the inventors of philosophy and geometry and all that - but they've pretty much let things slip over the centuries.
what is islam doing now to refresh its own civilisation? theocracies, dictatorships idiotic political agendas and polemic simply won't substitute for education and investment in business, science and culture as i think people are now abundantly aware in the islamic world. islamism offer no answer whatsoever, abdullah - and i think hamza yusuf says as much elsewhere. what do you think?
b'shalom
bananabrain
bob x
Well-Known Member
Almost everything you are talking about is what medieval Islam learned from ELSEWHERE: the science of the Greeks, the medicine of the Jews, the numeration from India, and writing on paper from China. And there was a lot of innovation, as a result of putting all these ideas together. But none of it comes out of the Qur'an. Modern Islam has rejected the notion of innovating new ideas, and is hostile to accepting ideas from outside. This is why it is stagnant.
NiceCupOfTea
Pathetic earthlings
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there is something borg like about aspects of contemporary sunni islam that wants to assimilate everything partly this manifests itself as claiming owership for things that our not theirs.
Also who cares anyway whether an invention was invented by a jew or a christian or a muslim, hindu etc, only an insecure cultural elitist really.
Also who cares anyway whether an invention was invented by a jew or a christian or a muslim, hindu etc, only an insecure cultural elitist really.
radarmark
Quaker-in-the-Making
Demanding that the Qu'ran be the source of Islamic influence in Western (by which we all know to be the Euro-American Christian) Civilization is like demanding that Genesis influenced (or contained within it) the notion of evolution for us to claim evolution for Western Civilization. I do not see kow that works.
During the height of Middle Eastern and Iberian Islam, it created a safe place for people (Jews and Christians as well as muslims) to add to our collective knowledge of the world (whether in math or medicine it does not matter). During the period of which I am speaking the Great Catholic Church (and there was no other) was busy burning ancient texts and wise people as "enemies of the Lord".
And almost everything is "borrowed" it is the innovative use or application that matters. Even Newton said "I stand on the shoulders of Giants".
Yes, the Greatness that was Cordoba and Cairo and Bagdad has died. But so has the Greatness that was Athens and Rome. No blame, just time marching on.
And doesn't "who cares anyway whether an invention was invented by a jew or a christian or a muslim, hindu etc, only an insecure cultural elitist really" really contradicts "islam wants to claim[ing] owership for things that our not theirs."
It was my impression that this is a forum for dialogue.
Pax et amore vincunt omnia--Radarmark
During the height of Middle Eastern and Iberian Islam, it created a safe place for people (Jews and Christians as well as muslims) to add to our collective knowledge of the world (whether in math or medicine it does not matter). During the period of which I am speaking the Great Catholic Church (and there was no other) was busy burning ancient texts and wise people as "enemies of the Lord".
And almost everything is "borrowed" it is the innovative use or application that matters. Even Newton said "I stand on the shoulders of Giants".
Yes, the Greatness that was Cordoba and Cairo and Bagdad has died. But so has the Greatness that was Athens and Rome. No blame, just time marching on.
And doesn't "who cares anyway whether an invention was invented by a jew or a christian or a muslim, hindu etc, only an insecure cultural elitist really" really contradicts "islam wants to claim[ing] owership for things that our not theirs."
It was my impression that this is a forum for dialogue.
Pax et amore vincunt omnia--Radarmark
bob x
Well-Known Member
Brahmagupta was troubled that there is no sensible way to divide by zero, but he was wrong in thinking that answers could simply be assigned by decree. Addition is an invertible operation, because it is "one-to-one", never sending more than one starting point to one and the same end point. "WHAT plus two gets you to six?" has only one possible answer, "FOUR plus two is six." There can never be different numbers which, plus two, come to the same sum. So, subtraction is well defined. Multiplication, except by zero, has the same property. There cannot be different numbers which, times two, give the same product; but there are indeed many different numbers (all of them in fact!) which, times zero, give the same product. "Six divided by two" means "WHAT, times two, gets you to six?" and can only have the answer "Three." But "zero divided by zero" means "WHAT, times zero, gets you to zero?" and the answer is "ANY NUMBER YOU LIKE". His "zero divided by zero equals zero" is not false (since zero times zero does make zero) but is no more true than "zero divided by zero equals seventeen" (since seventeen zeroes also come to zero). HOW MANY nothings does it take to make nothing? As many or as few as you like.
arthra
Baha'i
Abbas Ibn Firnas
I looked up Abbas Ibn Firnas on wiki and here's what I found:
Work
Ibn Firnas designed a water clock called Al-Maqata, devised a means of manufacturing colorless glass, he invented various glass planispheres, made corrective lenses ("reading stones"), developed a chain of rings that could be used to simulate the motions of the planets and stars, and developed a process for cutting rock crystal that allowed Spain to cease exporting quartz to Egypt to be cut.[3][4]
In his house he built a room in which spectators witnessed stars, clouds, thunder, and lightning, which were produced by mechanisms located in his basement laboratory. He also devised "some sort of metronome."[4]
The last part about the special room sounds pretty cool!
I looked up Abbas Ibn Firnas on wiki and here's what I found:
Work
Ibn Firnas designed a water clock called Al-Maqata, devised a means of manufacturing colorless glass, he invented various glass planispheres, made corrective lenses ("reading stones"), developed a chain of rings that could be used to simulate the motions of the planets and stars, and developed a process for cutting rock crystal that allowed Spain to cease exporting quartz to Egypt to be cut.[3][4]
In his house he built a room in which spectators witnessed stars, clouds, thunder, and lightning, which were produced by mechanisms located in his basement laboratory. He also devised "some sort of metronome."[4]
The last part about the special room sounds pretty cool!