The End of the Organized Prophetical System.

[Ben Masada]

Ben has not returned here for a while, so you may not get a response from him.


Everybody misunderstands the scripture except you, because you have gone through the narrow gate. We have already established this. You have also pointed out that your are the son of man, a very exalted title..

I feel like my theory is being tested. Jesus has told his disciples that he is the way, which I suspect means he expected them to say the same thing. Did he mean them to also repeat it by rote? Not sure. Should they call themselves the 'Son of man' or not? Does this extend to Christians or was it for Jews only? Its one of those questions like the question of whether one must 'Say' they are baptized in the 'Name of the Father, Son, Holy Ghost' or whether they must merely 'Be' baptized in that name while saying it is optional. Its not plain and obvious from the gospels alone. Another question pertains to how he taught them to pray. People discuss whether his prayer must be spoken verbatim or not. Must one say exactly "Our father which art..." and so on. It is interesting to see someone saying 'I am the Son of man'.

There is no mystery connected with the expression, "Son of man." Here in Israel, it is very common to relate one to another as "Ben adam," which means son of man. And ben adam is a reference to both sexes, male and female. It means nothing more, nothing less than the human being itself. The connotation Christians have applied to it with reference to Jesus is probably rooted on the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology.
Ben

 

[Ben Masada]

In the generic physical sense, I see "sons of God" as meaning spirit creatures, whereas "son(s) or daughters of man" meaning human beings.

However, when it comes the spiritual meaning, one can see from Genesis 6 that spiritual creatures can be physically minded and have physical desires, and from Jesus that physical creatures can be spiritually minded.

The expression "sons of God" was commonly used during the Roman occupation of Israel as an euphemism to hide the shame on thousands of Jewish children born as a result of rapes by Roman soldiers. Hence the following text was derived from:

The Alleged Sons of God

According to an ancient Roman policy, any able-bodied man from the conquered lands, who joined the Roman Army, would obtain authomatic citizenship. And if he was lucky enough to reach retirement age, he could choose where he would like to spend the rest of his life, and he would be granted a piece of land or farm as severance pay for his services to the Empire. Rome excluded.

When the Roman Legions arrived in the Middle East and conquered Sidon, a man called Pantera applied to join the Army and was accepted. Then, he was conscripted into the Roman Legion which got stationed in Syria. When he reached retirement age, he chose to return to Sidon and got his farm there to live for the rest of his life.

According to Josephus, in the year 4 BCE, there was a local revolt in Israel against Herod. It became known as the Revolt of the Pharisees. It was so strong that it was threatening to depose him. Herod appealed to Rome for help and Caesar gave orders to the Legion stationed in Syria to cross over into Israel and put down the revolt.

Thousands of Roman soldiers came over and the task was quite easy. They crucified a few thousand Jews, and decided to stay for some time to make sure the discontent were subdued. In the meantime, the Roman soldiers would rape young Jewish ladies almost daily.

As it was to expect, many children were born as a result of those rapes. Since the unfortunate mothers were not to blame for promiscuity, the religious authorities forbade to ostracize them or to consider their children as mamzerim or ba$tards. But they grew up with the epithet of "sons of God." (Lecture on the "Historical Jesus" at Stanphord University)

Since Jesus was born just about that time, I am of the opinion that's much more prudent and less embarrassing to acknowledge that he was a biological son of Joseph's than to run the risk that Jesus might have been one of those sons of God.

Ben:

 

[Princely]

You speak of heaven as a place to go to or to come from. You are contradicting Jesus' own words in Luke 17:21, that the kingdom of heaven is esoteric; i.e., within every one of us. An inner condition which we cause to ourselves and to others here on earth. And the statements you have quoted above, none describes Jesus as a prophet. Therefore, Jesus was not a prophet. The claim is simply based on Christian pre-conceived notions.
Ben

No I am not contradicting Jesus, you misquote Him. The scripture is "The kingdom of God is among you."Those words were the words Jesus gave me and He wouldn't contradict himself. And just like Jesus said the Father sent Him, so do I. That would make Him a prophet as well as me.We are son of man along with all the other prophets that the Jews have rejected.A prophet is someone who spreads the word of God. Scripture defines the son of man as this;

"Observe what is right and do what is just, for my salvation is about to come ,my justice about to be revealed, blessed is the man who does this the son of man who holds to it".

"When the lion roars who will not fear it, when the Lord God speaks who will not prophesy".

"Wisdom makes friends of God and prophets."

"The Lord gives wisdom, from His mouth come knowledge and understanding."

No one can see the reign of God without being born from above.
No one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.
Flesh makes flesh ,spirit makes spirit.
Do not be amazed that I told you, You must be born from above.
The wind blows where it wills, and you can hear the sound it makes, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes; so it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.

Truly I say to you, the son can do nothing on his own, he can only do what he sees his father doing; for whatever the father does the son does likewise
For the Father loves the Son and whatever he does he shows him, and he will show him greater works than these, so that you may be amazed.
For just as the Father raises the dead and grants life, so too does the Son give life to those who do His wishes.
Almighty God judges no one, but has given all judgment over to the son so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.

Truly I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes in the one who sent me possesses eternal life and will not come under condemnation, but has passed from death to life.
Truly I tell you, the hour is coming and is now here when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who have heeded it will live.
For just as the Father has life in himself, so too has he given his Son the possession of life in himself.
And he gave him power to pass judgment, because he is the Son of Man.
I do nothing on my own; I judge as I hear, and my judgment is just, because I’m not seeking my own will but the will of the one who sent me.
The Lord who sent me has testified on my behalf. But you have never heard his voice nor seen his form,
and you do not have his word remaining in you, because you do not believe in the one whom he has sent. Search the scriptures if you think you have eternal life through them; even they testify on my behalf.
But you do not want to come to me to have life.

My teaching is not my own it comes from the one who sent me.I came to do His will not my own.
Whoever chooses to do his will shall know about this teaching whether it comes from God or whether I‘m speaking on my own.

 

[Dream]

IMHO, what Jeremiah referred to as "New Covenant" was in the method of observance and not because the Sinaitic Covenant had become obsolete. And the method was more in the sense of more personal responsibility due to the availability of the written Torah, which had to be read by Levites and scribes, and interpreted by prophets in terms of how to know the Lord. Now, that the Word of God was in our own mouth, so to speak, and in our own heart, that prophetical function was no longer necessary. (Deut. 30:11-14; Jer. 31:34)
Ben

Thanks I hadn't made that connection before although I recognize those two passages.

 

[Ben Masada]

No I am not contradicting Jesus, you misquote Him. The scripture is "The kingdom of God is among you."Those words were the words Jesus gave me and He wouldn't contradict himself. And just like Jesus said the Father sent Him, so do I. That would make Him a prophet as well as me.We are son of man along with all the other prophets that the Jews have rejected.A prophet is someone who spreads the word of God. Scripture defines the son of man as this;

The kingdom of God and the kingdom of heaven is one and the same. And it was about the news of the kingdom of heaven or kingdom of God that Jesus forbade his disciples to preach to the Gentiles. Read Mat. 10:5,6. And regarding being a prophet, Jesus was not one, he never declared to be one, and you are claiming to be a false prophet, according to Daniel 9:24, where it says that prophets and prophecies had been over by the time the Jews returned from exile in Babylon.

"Observe what is right and do what is just, for my salvation is about to come ,my justice about to be revealed, blessed is the man who does this the son of man who holds to it".

Jesus himself made it very clear that salvation comes from the Jews. Read John 4:22. And focus your attention on the fact that he did not say from one among the Jews, but from the Jews, period.

"When the lion roars who will not fear it, when the Lord God speaks who will not prophesy".

That was before Daniel, when prophets and prophecy were still in effect.

Truly I say to you, the son can do nothing on his own, he can only do what he sees his father doing; for whatever the father does the son does likewise.

Jesus was a Jewish man and not a Greek demigod, which is the son of God with an earthly woman. This is vandalism of Judaism by Christianity to pick up a Jew and to make of him a Greek demigod.

For just as the Father raises the dead and grants life, so too does the Son give life to those who do His wishes.

God would not work against His natural laws and Scriptures by bringing the
dead back to life. There is no such thing as bodily resurrection. God is God
of the living and not of the dead.

Truly I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes in the one who sent me possesses eternal life and will not come under condemnation, but has passed from death to life.

Eternal life belongs with God only. That's an attribute which was not granted to man. That's exactly the reason why Adam and Eve were banned from the Garden of Eden; to prevent them from eating of the tree of life and live forever. Read Genesis 3:22.

Whoever chooses to do his will shall know about this teaching whether it comes from God or whether I‘m speaking on my own.

The only test to prove if a teaching is genuinely from God is in Isaiah 8:20. "To the Law and the Testimony; if they don't speak according to this method, it's because there is no light (truth) in them." Your teachings are not according to the Law and the Testimony. But Jesus' teaching were
because he taught according to the Law. Read Mat. 5:17-19.

Ben

 

[Ben Masada]

Thanks I hadn't made that connection before although I recognize those two passages.

Hey Dream, how are you doing? I am back, as you see. Sorry for the absence.
Ben

 

[Princely]

The kingdom of God and the kingdom of heaven is one and the same. And it was about the news of the kingdom of heaven or kingdom of God that Jesus forbade his disciples to preach to the Gentiles. Read Mat. 10:5,6. And regarding being a prophet, Jesus was not one, he never declared to be one, and you are claiming to be a false prophet, according to Daniel 9:24, where it says that prophets and prophecies had been over by the time the Jews returned from exile in Babylon.

[/B]

Jesus himself made it very clear that salvation comes from the Jews. Read John 4:22. And focus your attention on the fact that he did not say from one among the Jews, but from the Jews, period.



That was before Daniel, when prophets and prophecy were still in effect.



Jesus was a Jewish man and not a Greek demigod, which is the son of God with an earthly woman. This is vandalism of Judaism by Christianity to pick up a Jew and to make of him a Greek demigod.

God would not work against His natural laws and Scriptures by bringing the
dead back to life. There is no such thing as bodily resurrection. God is God
of the living and not of the dead.

Eternal life belongs with God only. That's an attribute which was not granted to man. That's exactly the reason why Adam and Eve were banned from the Garden of Eden; to prevent them from eating of the tree of life and live forever. Read Genesis 3:22.

The only test to prove if a teaching is genuinely from God is in Isaiah 8:20. "To the Law and the Testimony; if they don't speak according to this method, it's because there is no light (truth) in them." Your teachings are not according to the Law and the Testimony. But Jesus' teaching were
because he taught according to the Law. Read Mat. 5:17-19.

Ben

The Jews have not returned from Babylon.That scripture is metaphoric in nature.

Jesus said those things I wrote, so how can you say He wouldn't preach that.He also said to make disciples of all the nations not just the Jews.He also
said; "The Lord has anointed me with His spirit . He has sent me to bring glad tidings to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to captives and give sight to the blind, to let the oppressed go free, and to proclaim a year of favor from the Lord". I say that as well. That would make Him a prophet and those He sent as well.

If you don't see I teach according to the Law then you don't know the Law.

"Once you have the light keep faith in the light and you will become a child of light."

 

[Ben Masada]

The Jews have not returned from Babylon.That scripture is metaphoric in nature.

Jesus said those things I wrote, so how can you say He wouldn't preach that.He also said to make disciples of all the nations not just the Jews.He also
said; "The Lord has anointed me with His spirit . He has sent me to bring glad tidings to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to captives and give sight to the blind, to let the oppressed go free, and to proclaim a year of favor from the Lord". I say that as well. That would make Him a prophet and those He sent as well.

If you don't see I teach according to the Law then you don't know the Law.

"Once you have the light keep faith in the light and you will become a child of light."

Not the whole of the Jewish People returned from Babylon; you are right. Even the majority did not. Isaiah says that, for though Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet only a remnant of them shall return. (Isa. 10:22) Indeed, only a small remnant of them returned. But, as you say, that return was metaphorical, would you enlighten me with what that metaphor points to? If you have Jesus in mind, I am sorry to disappoint you, because we are back and have inaugurated the third Jewish Commonwealth, and Jesus is still to come.

Where did you get the idea that it was Jesus who said to make disciples of all the nations and not just the Jews? You either do not know your NT well enough or don't care to dig more and more contradictions from it. Take a look at Mat. 10:5,6. Every time he sent his disciples on a mission to spread the news about the Kingdom of God, he would forbid them to take the message to the Gentiles or even enter a Samaritan town. How could he make disciples from among the Gentiles if he had an aversion to Gentiles? Once a Gentile woman begged him to cure her daughter and he
answered and said that it was not proper to take from the bread of the children and throw it unto the dogs. (Mat. 15:26) Sorry, I did not write that. It's from your NT.

Last but not least, about being the child of light that you appeal to me to become. Have you ever heard about the Essene doctrine of the conflict between the children of darkness and the children of light? Do you have any idea who were the children of light and the children of darkness in their doctrine? That was a conflict of Gentiles against Jews. Jesus agreed with the Essenes when he declared that the Jews were the light of the world. That's also in Mat. 5:14.
Ben

 

[Dream]

Hey Dream, how are you doing? I am back, as you see. Sorry for the absence.
Ben

Its an open relationship, so you may choose to have some days off at any time.

 

[Princely]

Not the whole of the Jewish People returned from Babylon; you are right. Even the majority did not. Isaiah says that, for though Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet only a remnant of them shall return. (Isa. 10:22) Indeed, only a small remnant of them returned. But, as you say, that return was metaphorical, would you enlighten me with what that metaphor points to? If you have Jesus in mind, I am sorry to disappoint you, because we are back and have inaugurated the third Jewish Commonwealth, and Jesus is still to come.

Princely Wrote;

People have to earn the right to have scripture revealed to them.

"It is written in the prophets: They shall all be taught by God. Everyone who listens to my Father and learns from him comes to me.

If you continue in my words, you are truly be my disciple,
then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.

Whoever denies me before others, I will deny before my heavenly Father.
Whoever does not take up his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me.

Whoever has my commandments and keeps them is the one who loves me. And whoever loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and reveal myself to him."

Where did you get the idea that it was Jesus who said to make disciples of all the nations and not just the Jews? You either do not know your NT well enough or don't care to dig more and more contradictions from it. Take a look at Mat. 10:5,6. Every time he sent his disciples on a mission to spread the news about the Kingdom of God, he would forbid them to take the message to the Gentiles or even enter a Samaritan town. How could he make disciples from among the Gentiles if he had an aversion to Gentiles? Once a Gentile woman begged him to cure her daughter and he
answered and said that it was not proper to take from the bread of the children and throw it unto the dogs. (Mat. 15:26) Sorry, I did not write that. It's from your NT.

Princely Wrote;

I know the NT very well, and remember those verses. but there is another verse that says differently.There is also a verse from the OT to back it up.

It is written;

Matthew 28:19; Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit.

Book of Isaiah; To the outsiders who observe my sabbaths and choose what pleases me and hold fast to my covenant: I will give, in my house and within my walls, a monument and a name Better than sons and daughters; an eternal, imperishable name I shall give them. For my house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples.

Last but not least, about being the child of light that you appeal to me to become. Have you ever heard about the Essene doctrine of the conflict between the children of darkness and the children of light? Do you have any idea who were the children of light and the children of darkness in their doctrine? That was a conflict of Gentiles against Jews. Jesus agreed with the Essenes when he declared that the Jews were the light of the world. That's also in Mat. 5:14.
Ben

Yes I do know who are the children of light and the children of darkness but I do not need the Essene doctrine to know who they are.

Yes, I know Mat. 5:14, but He was speaking to His disciples, those who truly follow Him. Example;

"I am the light of the world. No one who follows me will ever walk in darkness, cause he will possess the light of life. Whoever walks in the dark does not know where he is going.
Once you have the light, keep faith in the light, and you will become a child of light".

Isaiah;
I will appoint peace your governor,( Zion), and justice your ruler.
60:18No longer shall violence be heard of in your land, or plunder and ruin within your boundaries. You shall call your walls "Salvation" and your gates "Praise."
19No longer shall the sun be your light by day, Nor the brightness of the moon shine upon you at night; The Lord shall be your light forever, your God shall be your glory.
20No longer shall your sun go down, or your moon withdraw, For the LORD will be your light forever, and the days of your mourning shall be at an end.
21Your people shall all be just, they shall always possess the land, They, the bud of my planting, my handiwork to show my glory.
22The smallest shall become a thousand, the youngest, a mighty nation; I, the LORD, will swiftly accomplish these things when their time comes.


I am the way the truth and the life no one comes to the Lord except through me. Those are the words of the Lord who sent me. He commanded me what to say and how to speak and since I know His commandment means eternal life, what I say is spoken just as He instructed me.

 

[bananabrain]

The Jews have not returned from Babylon.That scripture is metaphoric in nature.

as a babylonian (i.e. iraqi) jew, i can pretty much tell you that it is also literally true, or the 2nd Temple would never have been built, nor would we distinguish between the Oral Law that was written in israel (the mishnah and jerusalem talmud) and that which was written elsewhere (the babylonian talmud).

b'shalom

bananabrain

 

[Ben Masada]

If you don't see I teach according to the Law then you don't know the Law.

To teach according to the Law is to teach according to Judaism; and you don't. You teach according to Christianity, which is to teach Hellenism.
Ben

 

[Ben Masada]

Yes, I know Mat. 5:14, but He was speaking to His disciples, those who truly follow Him.

Great! Jesus climbs the Mount of the Beatitudes, waits a little why the crowds of Jews accommodate down the mountainside to listen to his famous sermon on the mount and he delivers it in the ears of his disciples.
Does it make any sense to you? Before you answer, read Mat. 5:1 and 7:28. These verses show that he was speaking to a multitude of Jews.

"I am the light of the world. No one who follows me will ever walk in darkness, cause he will possess the light of life. Whoever walks in the dark does not know where he is going.

When Jesus said that, he spoke as part of the People of Israel and not on an individual basis. Can you see the difference? That's the same as when he said that salvation comes from the Jews. From the Jews, he said, and not from one among the Jews. Read John 4:22.

I am the way the truth and the life no one comes to the Lord except through me. Those are the words of the Lord who sent me. He commanded me what to say and how to speak and since I know His commandment means eternal life, what I say is spoken just as He instructed me.

Again, Jesus spoke as part of the People, whom Isaiah said, was given as light unto the Gentiles. Read Isaiah 42:6, which was confirmed by Jesus in Mat. 5:14, when he spoke to the Jews in general and not only to his disciples. And Jesus did not say that God's commandments mean eternal life, because there is no eternal life for man. This is an attribute that belongs with God only. So much so that, the reason why Adam and Eve were banned from the Garden of Eden was to prevent them from eating of the tree of life and live forever. Therefore, eternal life was not granted to man. We are under the law of Genesis and destruction; i.e., birth and death.

Ben

 

[Princely]

Great! Jesus climbs the Mount of the Beatitudes, waits a little why the crowds of Jews accommodate down the mountainside to listen to his famous sermon on the mount and he delivers it in the ears of his disciples.
Does it make any sense to you? Before you answer, read Mat. 5:1 and 7:28. These verses show that he was speaking to a multitude of Jews.

Princely wrote; He was speaking to those who would follow Him that is what the beatitudes are about. Sure he was speaking so others could hear because it is for everyone who will follow. I notice you didn't remark on the scripture about whoever wants to join themselves to the Lord, and His house being a house of prayer for all people. Again you didn't comment on where Jesus said to go and make disciples of all the nations.Because you are mistaken.

When Jesus said that, he spoke as part of the People of Israel and not on an individual basis. Can you see the difference? That's the same as when he said that salvation comes from the Jews. From the Jews, he said, and not from one among the Jews. Read John 4:22.

Princely wrote; No you are mistaken. You do not see the whole story and what Jesus is going to accomplish.You are twisting it to suit your own agenda. If He was speaking for the Jews then why did the Pharisees not accept Him?And then He told them they belong to what is below and that if they didn't believe that He is I AM they would die in there sins.The reason is because He was not speaking for the Jewish people you claim to belong to. A Jew is someone who is faithful to the Lord.That is why He said salvation is from the Jews.You are not a Jew. I am son of man, a Jew. It is not human blood that makes someone a Jew."They are truly my people children who are not unfaithful". "Faithfulness has disappeared, the word of God is gone from there speech"."They will be my people and I will be there God with faithfuness and justice".

Again, Jesus spoke as part of the People, whom Isaiah said, was given as light unto the Gentiles. Read Isaiah 42:6, which was confirmed by Jesus in Mat. 5:14, when he spoke to the Jews in general and not only to his disciples. And Jesus did not say that God's commandments mean eternal life, because there is no eternal life for man. This is an attribute that belongs with God only. So much so that, the reason why Adam and Eve were banned from the Garden of Eden was to prevent them from eating of the tree of life and live forever. Therefore, eternal life was not granted to man. We are under the law of Genesis and destruction; i.e., birth and death.

Ben

Princely Wrote;

Yes ,in Isaiah He is speaking of His servant that will be a light for the nations, not the people who claim to be Jews and do not follow the son of man.

Here is my servant whom I uphold, my chosen one with whom I am pleased, upon whom I have put my spirit;he shall proclaim justice to the nations.

That scripture is fulfilled in me. I am son of man.

You are under the law of Genesis because you will not allow the Lord to teach you.The Law is described in Psalms, take a look.


128:1 Happy is everyone who fears the Lord, who walks in his ways. You shall eat the fruit of the labor of your hands; you shall be happy, and it shall go well with you.


119:55 I remember your name in the night, O Lord, and keep your law.


119:77 Let your mercy come to me, that I may live; for your law is my joy.


119:142 Your righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and your law is the truth


119:174 I long for your salvation, O Lord, and your law is my delight.

145:13 The Lord is faithful in all his words, and holy in all his works.

145:17 The Lord is just in all his ways, and holy in all his works. 18 The Lord is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth.

Bk of John; "Father your word is truth."

If scripture says that the Lord will be your light and then says the servant of God is the light to the nations but also says,"I said you are gods" what is God trying to tell you.The son of man says "It is impossible for man to be saved but everything is possible for God".Then says "everyone who enters by me will be saved", what is God trying to tell you.He says JN 17:22 "I have given them the glory you gave me so that they may be One as we are One.

Now if the followers are One as He is One with God the Father and His glory, and He is the son of God as He claimed then His followers are as well.That is how to be the light,to be like God.He has made it possible to have eternal life. God made it possible in His own way, not in mans understanding but in the way of the Lord, by walking in His ways and fearing Him.

 

[Ben Masada]

Princely Wrote;

Yes ,in Isaiah He is speaking of His servant that will be a light for the nations, not the people who claim to be Jews and do not follow the son of man.

Are you sure, Isaiah is not speaking about Israel, the Jewish People? Take a look at Isaiah 41:8,9; 44:1,2,21. Isaiah identifies that Servant with Israel by name. Are you ready for that truth?

That scripture is fulfilled in me. I am son of man.

Where is it written? According to the Hebrew text, "son of man" means simply "ben adam," which is a person; any human being, man or woman.

You are under the law of Genesis because you will not allow the Lord to teach you.The Law is described in Psalms, take a look.

What do you mean by Law of Genesis? The Law is in Exodus and not in Genesis. (Exo. 20:3-17) The Law described in Psalm 119 is the same as the one given in Exodus to Israel, the Jewish People.

119:55 I remember your name in the night, O Lord, and keep your law.

Do you keep God's Law? I mean, do you adopt God's Law? Take a look at Exodus 20:3-17 and test yourself. Perhaps yours and God's Law are not the same.

119:142 Your righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and your law is the truth.

Great! God's Law is the Truth. Now, read Psalm 147:19,20 to see whom was that truth given to. "To Israel only and to no other people on earth." Now, you know whom the Truth is found with.

18 The Lord is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth.

According to John 4:22-24, Jesus said that the Gentiles know not what they worship, while the Jews do know what they worship, because they worship the Lord in spirit and in truth. What do you say?

Bk of John; "Father your word is truth."

This is in John 17:17. So the Truth is the Word of God. That's the Word of God which was given to Israel only and to no other people on earth, which I quoted for you in Psalm 147:19,20.

If scripture says that the Lord will be your light and then says the servant of God is the light to the nations but also says,"I said you are gods" what is God trying to tell you.The son of man says "It is impossible for man to be saved but everything is possible for God".Then says "everyone who enters by me will be saved", what is God trying to tell you.He says JN 17:22 "I have given them the glory you gave me so that they may be One as we are One.

God is trying to tell me that, according to Psalm 82:6, the children of the Most High are gods. And Jesus confirmed that fact by identifying the children of the Most High with Israel, the Jewish People, in John 10:34,35, to whom the Word of God was given to, according to Psalm 147:19,20.

Now if the followers are One as He is One with God the Father and His glory, and He is the son of God as He claimed then His followers are as well.That is how to be the light,to be like God.He has made it possible to have eternal life. God made it possible in His own way, not in mans understanding but in the way of the Lord, by walking in His ways and fearing Him.

First of all, Jesus was not son of God in the Christian sense, because Jesus was a Jewish man, and in Judaism, which was his Faith, there is nothing as the Greek mythology of a demigod, which is the son of a god with an earthly woman. And second, man was denied the attribute of eternal life when Adam and Even were banned from the Garden of Eden as they were prevented from eating of the tree of life and live forever. That's in Genesis 3:22.

Ben

 

[Ben Masada]

Quote:

Princely wrote;

He was speaking to those who would follow Him that is what the beatitudes are about. Sure he was speaking so others could hear because it is for everyone who will follow.

You are rewriting your own gospel. Sorry, but it won't help you.

I notice you didn't remark on the scripture about whoever wants to join themselves to the Lord, and His house being a house of prayer for all people.

This was said by Isaiah in 56:1-8 with reference to the Gentiles who have decided to convert to Judaism. Nothing to do with Jesus.

Again you didn't comment on where Jesus said to go and make disciples of all the nations.Because you are mistaken.

He didn't. What you are trying to do is to dig a contradiction with Mat. 10:5-7, where we have that Jesus would forbid his disciples to take the gospel about the Kingdom of Heaven to the Gentiles.

Quote:

Princely wrote;

No you are mistaken. You do not see the whole story and what Jesus is going to accomplish.You are twisting it to suit your own agenda. If He was speaking for the Jews then why did the Pharisees not accept Him?

What a question Princely! I am sorry to hear such an elementary question. I am speaking to you; why don't you accept what I am saying? See what I mean by an elementary question?

And then He told them they belong to what is below and that if they didn't believe that He is I AM they would die in there sins.

Princely, they were Jewish. They could not accept that a Jewish man could be God. That would be tantamount to idolatry. Jews do not adopt Greek Mythology.

The reason is because He was not speaking for the Jewish people you claim to belong to.

I know. He was not speaking for the Jewish People, but to the Jewish People. Read Mat. 5:1; 7:28.

A Jew is someone who is faithful to the Lord.That is why He said salvation is from the Jews.You are not a Jew. I am son of man, a Jew. It is not human blood that makes someone a Jew."They are truly my people children who are not unfaithful". "Faithfulness has disappeared, the word of God is gone from there speech"."They will be my people and I will be there God with faithfuness and justice".

Behold, it didn't take too long to show your real role as a promoter of the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology. That's where resides your faith, in the prejudice against the Jews. You have found out the best way to fight them: To deny their identity. But as Jesus himself said on the cross: "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they are doing."

Ben

 

[seattlegal]

Where is it written? According to the Hebrew text, "son of man" means simply "ben adam," which is a person; any human being, man or woman.

Ben

We are in agreement.

In the generic physical sense, I see "sons of God" as meaning spirit creatures, whereas "son(s) or daughters of man" meaning human beings.

However, when it comes the spiritual meaning, one can see from Genesis 6 that spiritual creatures can be physically minded and have physical desires, and from Jesus that physical creatures can be spiritually minded.

 

[Princely]

Princely Wrote;



Are you sure, Isaiah is not speaking about Israel, the Jewish People? Take a look at Isaiah 41:8,9; 44:1,2,21. Isaiah identifies that Servant with Israel by name. Are you ready for that truth?

Princely Wrote; No, He is saying the servant is Israel, a big difference.

Where is it written? According to the Hebrew text, "son of man" means simply "ben adam," which is a person; any human being, man or woman.

Princely Wrote; Yes the son of man can be any and all people who serve the Lord. We are One.

What do you mean by Law of Genesis? The Law is in Exodus and not in Genesis. (Exo. 20:3-17) The Law described in Psalm 119 is the same as the one given in Exodus to Israel, the Jewish People.

Princely Wrote; You were the one who said you or man was bound by the Law of Genesis with Adam and Eve, not me.

Do you keep God's Law? I mean, do you adopt God's Law? Take a look at Exodus 20:3-17 and test yourself. Perhaps yours and God's Law are not the same.

Princely Wrote;Yes and I keep the new covenant which is similar. "One heart and One way is what I will give them, so that they will fear me always, for there own good and the good of there children after them.'

This is the covenant I will make with them; my spirit which is upon you and my words which i have put into your mouth shall never leave your mouth nor the mouths of your children nor the mouths of your children's children from now on and forever."

"You've been told what is good and what the Lord requires of you, only to do what is right love goodness and walk humbly with the Lord your God".

"Speak the truth to one another and let honesty and peace be in the judgments at your gate".

" As the Father has loved me so I have loved you ,live on in my love. You will live in my love if you keep my commandments just as I have kept my Fathers commandments and live in His love".

Great! God's Law is the Truth. Now, read Psalm 147:19,20 to see whom was that truth given to. "To Israel only and to no other people on earth." Now, you know whom the Truth is found with.

Princely Wrote; Yes I know that it is given to the servant of the Lord. The servant of the Lord is Israel. Israel is not by the blood of man but by serving the Lord.

"Listen Jacob, Israel whom I have chosen, I formed you to be a servant to me.

" I put salvation in Zion and give to Israel my glory. I give my glory to no other."

This is why I understand the truth and was given His glory, because I serve Him.

According to John 4:22-24, Jesus said that the Gentiles know not what they worship, while the Jews do know what they worship, because they worship the Lord in spirit and in truth. What do you say?

Princely Wrote; I say yes, that is exactly why I know, because I worship in spirit and in truth. It is for everyone to become the servant, Israel.

This is in John 17:17. So the Truth is the Word of God. That's the Word of God which was given to Israel only and to no other people on earth, which I quoted for you in Psalm 147:19,20.

Princely Wrote;Yes, the servant of the Lord is Israel.

God is trying to tell me that, according to Psalm 82:6, the children of the Most High are gods. And Jesus confirmed that fact by identifying the children of the Most High with Israel, the Jewish People, in John 10:34,35, to whom the Word of God was given to, according to Psalm 147:19,20.

Princely Wrote; Yes but like I said it is not by the blood line of man but by serving the Lord and walking in His name, fearing Him.

First of all, Jesus was not son of God in the Christian sense, because Jesus was a Jewish man, and in Judaism, which was his Faith, there is nothing as the Greek mythology of a demigod, which is the son of a god with an earthly woman. And second, man was denied the attribute of eternal life when Adam and Even were banned from the Garden of Eden as they were prevented from eating of the tree of life and live forever. That's in Genesis 3:22.

Ben

Princely Wrote; Jesus was giving an example of how to be the son/ servant of God. He was actually God the Father posing as the son. He said He would come Himself and He did. The Lord has has made it possible to have a type of eternal life. It is His will that His sons have eternal life.Scripture says "I said you are gods, sons of the most high.Israel is my son, my first born let my son go so he can serve me".

The servant of God is the son of God. Because he serves the Lord he is given eternal life.It is no like what man thinks living forever is, but what God says it is.

 

[Ben Masada]

We are in agreement.

Seattlegal, the spiritual creatures you refer to in Genesis 6 is about a Babylonian legend about the sons of their god interbreeding with female humans. That text was written by Ezra, who, by some reason of his own inserted it into the Torah just prior to the text about the Flood. It comprises the verses from 1 to 7, while, from verse 8 on, the Flood is reported. IMHO, he inserted that legend just before the Flood to explain the evil of the pre-Flood generation, which caused the catastrophic Flood to happen.
Ben