The End of the Organized Prophetical System.

bananabrain said:
princely:

i hate to say it but you are not the messiah. you are a very naughty boy.

who's coming to the stoning?

b'shalom

bananabrain
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Jesus sent me with the same message He was given and the same purpose. To continue in His words.

All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

The Lord has anointed me with His spirit . He has sent me to bring glad tidings to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to captives and give sight to the blind, to let the oppressed go free, and to proclaim a year of favor from the Lord.

The Lord says and it is written;

Lo, the day of the Lord comes, cruel, with wrath and burning anger; To lay waste the land and destroy the sinners within it!

Return, rebellious children, says the Lord, for I am your Master; I will take you, one from a city, two from a clan, and bring you to Zion.
15 I will appoint over you shepherds after my own heart, who will shepherd you wisely and prudently.
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Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.
Truly I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes in the one who sent me possesses eternal life and will not come under condemnation, but has passed from death to life.

The Lord who sent me has testified on my behalf. But you have never heard his voice nor seen his form,
and you do not have his word remaining in you, because you do not believe in the One whom he has sent.
 
Okay, as the perpetual doutbing Thomas:

1) How could you proove your claim?
2) How could you claim be falsified?

Panta Rhei!
Everything Flows!
 
I am tempted to debunk, but Princely's statement "All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me" spoken in the 1st person is counter to discussion, quoting someone else's statement as his own. Actually it is a good example of what all of this Bible stuff can bring out of people when they are learning all of this Bible stuff. Jesus is the founder of Christianity, and whatever he says is beyond argument in a Christian forum but Princely is pretending to be the founder, even if it is in a sort of mystical sense.

He even goes further by pretending to be both the founder of Christianity and the head of all Jews. It is characteristic of Jerusalem syndrome or what I would call Simonism after Simon the Sorcerer who started calling himself "That Great Power." In psychology it is called a delusion. It is so common that things were written about it and examples of it given in the NT, such as the story of the Seven Sons of Sceva: a story in Acts about men who attempted to drive out demons in Jesus name but couldn't, because they weren't him. Simonism, delusion, Jerusalem syndrome are all a demon of the mind. Its why someone suggests to Paul the apostle "Your great learning is driving you insane!" It is because apparently 'Great learning' can, so he was suspected of it when he went outside normal bounds.
 
radarmark said:
Okay, as the perpetual doutbing Thomas:

1) How could you proove your claim?
2) How could you claim be falsified?

Panta Rhei!
Everything Flows!
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What people don't see is that in the Gospel of John Jesus says that He is sending His disciples into the world as He was sent. He said He gave them the words that His Father gave Him.But Christianity follows Paul whereas I follow the Lord.Jesus and I have said where the proof lies, but people need to look deeper into the words, and stop worrying about what Paul said. I have to keep to His words, that is what He commanded, I am not suppose to interpret it for you. " No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws Him"


When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will realize that I AM, and that I do nothing on my own, but I only say what the Lord has taught me,
for the one who sent me is with me. He has not deserted me, because I always do what pleases him.

If you continue in my words, you are truly my disciple,
then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.

Truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave of sin.
A servant does not remain in a household forever, but a son always remains.
So if the son frees you, you will truly be free.

If I do not perform my Father's works, do not believe me;
but if I perform them, even if you do not believe me, put faith in the works, so that you may realize that the Lord is in me and I am in the Lord.

Whoever serves me must follow me, where I am, there will my servant be. The Lord will honor whoever serves me.

I came into the world as its light, so that everyone who believes in me might not remain in the dark.
If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not condemn him, for I did not come to condemn the world but to save it.
Whoever rejects me and does not accept my words he already has his judge namely the words I‘ve spoken that’s what will condemn him on the last day,
because I did not speak on my own, but the Lord who sent me commanded me what to say and speak.
And since I know that his commandment means eternal life, what I say is spoken just as he instructed me.

Do you not believe that I am in the Lord and the Lord is in me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on my own. The Lord who lives in me is doing his works.
Believe me that I am in the Lord and the Lord is in me, or else, believe because of the works themselves.
Truly I say to you, whoever believes in me will do the works that I do.
 
Dream said:
I am tempted to debunk, but Princely's statement "All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me" spoken in the 1st person is counter to discussion, quoting someone else's statement as his own. Actually it is a good example of what all of this Bible stuff can bring out of people when they are learning all of this Bible stuff. Jesus is the founder of Christianity, and whatever he says is beyond argument in a Christian forum but Princely is pretending to be the founder, even if it is in a sort of mystical sense.

He even goes further by pretending to be both the founder of Christianity and the head of all Jews. It is characteristic of Jerusalem syndrome or what I would call Simonism after Simon the Sorcerer who started calling himself "That Great Power." In psychology it is called a delusion. It is so common that things were written about it and examples of it given in the NT, such as the story of the Seven Sons of Sceva: a story in Acts about men who attempted to drive out demons in Jesus name but couldn't, because they weren't him. Simonism, delusion, Jerusalem syndrome are all a demon of the mind. Its why someone suggests to Paul the apostle "Your great learning is driving you insane!" It is because apparently 'Great learning' can, so he was suspected of it when he went outside normal bounds.
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I am continuing in His words as commanded. I am not Jesus, but yes I am son of man. we are One as He said His followers would be.
If you continue in my words you are truly my disciple then you will know the truth and the truth will set you free.If the son frees you, you will truly be free.

The son of man comes eating and drinking and people think he is madd or on drugs.
I assure you, we speak of what we know and we testify to what we have seen, but you people do not accept our testimony.

The one who comes from above is above all; He who is of the world belongs to the world and speaks in a worldly way. The one who comes from heaven is above all. He testifies to what he has seen and heard, yet no one accepts his testimony. Whoever accepts his testimony certifies that God is truthful. The One whom is sent by God, He speaks the words of God. His gift of the spirit is not rationed. The Father loves the Son and has given everything over to him. Whoever believes in the Son possesses eternal life; whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but must endure the wrath of God.

Here is what scripture says about eating and drinking in the way the Lord thinks.

Jeremiah;

Do what is right and just.

Didn't your Father eat and drink? He did what is right and just and it went well with him, because he dispensed justice to the weak and the poor it went well with him; Isn't this true knowledge of me?says the Lord.

Isaiah;

My servants shall eat, but you shall go hungry; My servants shall drink, but you shall be thirsty; My servants shall rejoice, but you shall be put to shame;
My servants shall shout for joy of heart, But you shall cry out for grief of heart and howl for anguish of spirit.
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Princely, I did not pick up on where you were coming from until now. I'm guessing what you are now is a Judaism informed member of believers, probably keeping the Torah laws & circumcised physically and potentially able to intermarry with Jews but not gentiles or modern Christians. You emphasize the one-ness of G-d with no atonement complications. Your conversion process requires some memorization, time and proofs of dedication, though different congregations may vary in what is required. You do not have an extant body of commentary on the gospels but feel you don't need it with the Torah (and Talmud?) study and commentary. You feel that Jesus is important and that what was entrusted to his disciples has been entrusted to you, possibly re-invigorated. Passover (Pesach) and other traditional Jewish festivals are important to you.

You have
  • one of the gospels (or whichever are consistent and aligned with classic Torah interpretation),
  • maybe I Peter,
  • maybe James,
  • Tanakh
  • Talmud with additional commentary
  • a set of hymns and prayers
For you Torah is tops and all other writings are judged by it, including or especially Jesus own words.
 
Dream said:
In Daniel 7:14 and other places it carries some additional meanings, but as prose they don't make a lot of sense. I think someone told me Daniel was written in the Apocalyptic style. Now there is the duel problem of separating what 'Son of man' meant to people in the past vs. what it means to me now and whether its meaning was left open-ended. I think that 'Son of man' is only one of the images used to describe. It may not have been clear to the author exactly what the being would be like after entering the presence of the 'Ancient of days', and he only says 'someone like a son of man.' It is beyond my training.
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Wouldn't "someone like a son of man" refer to a human-like being?
It used to be said that "no man can see God and live," yet a human-like being is entering the presence of the "Ancient of Days." Radical, no?
 
Seattlegal said:
Radical, no?
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Yes, radical; but you always say that the Tao which can be named is not the real Tao. Visions just like dreams can have impossible things happen in them. I have flown in dreams, wrestled with a tiger, been bitten by a monkey, chased by dogs, killed with a knife, attacked by a tarantula and also by ants and have been administered the hand-in-the-box punishment by Darth Vader in a school gymnasium. I have also driven a bus through a red light.
 
Dream said:
Princely, I did not pick up on where you were coming from until now. I'm guessing what you are now is a Judaism informed member of believers, probably keeping the Torah laws & circumcised physically and potentially able to intermarry with Jews but not gentiles or modern Christians. You emphasize the one-ness of G-d with no atonement complications. Your conversion process requires some memorization, time and proofs of dedication, though different congregations may vary in what is required. You do not have an extant body of commentary on the gospels but feel you don't need it with the Torah (and Talmud?) study and commentary. You feel that Jesus is important and that what was entrusted to his disciples has been entrusted to you, possibly re-invigorated. Passover (Pesach) and other traditional Jewish festivals are important to you.

You have
  • one of the gospels (or whichever are consistent and aligned with classic Torah interpretation),
  • maybe I Peter,
  • maybe James,
  • Tanakh
  • Talmud with additional commentary
  • a set of hymns and prayers
For you Torah is tops and all other writings are judged by it, including or especially Jesus own words.
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I use the word of the Lord that is written in the bible. I am not Jewish as the world thinks but I am Jacob/ Israel the servant of the Lord.I do not accept the books after the Gospels as being inspired except revelations.
 
gilliam.holy.grail2.jpg

OH, DO BE QUIET.
 
bob x said:
Jesus never called himself a prophet, and said No when asked if he was. So calling him a "false" prophet is unfair.
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There is nothing in the thread which gives the impression that Jesus was a false prophet. BTW, it does state that Jesus was NOT a false prophet. He just was not a prophet at all. And indeed, he never claimed to be one. Christians are the ones who have fabricated the idea.
Ben
 
radarmark said:
I would make that a big you are right but add that any claim of prophecy since the return from the Captivity.

Pax et amore omnia vincunt!
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Oh! Those claims have been common even up to our days. Joseph Smith for the Mormons and Ellen Gold White for the Seventh-Day Adventists were famously claimed to be prophets. False prophets therefore.
Ben
 
arthra said:
Here I am again in the Christian Forum..

Would Jesus not have referred to Himself or alluded to Himself as a prophet..in Mark

6:2 And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?

6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

But Jesus, said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.

(King James Bible, Mark 6:4)
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Arthra, the gospel of Mark was written by a Hellenistic Gentile, former disciple of Paul, who was himself a former Hellenistic Jew. Paul needed to establish Jesus as a prophet in order to claim the like-Moses prophet that God would raise from among the Jewish brotherhood, as stated in Deut. 18:18. Reason? Replacement Theology. That prophet was Joshua.
Ben
 
Dream said:
You give great examples there. I agree that its tragic for Christians in America (and subsequently in many other places) to think that God, who cannot lie, would reverse a promise. I think however, that it isn't the root of the issue. I also think that the passage in Hebrews takes its meaning of old and new from whatever it was that happened in Jeremiah. Its flexible that way and can accommodate your discovery, perhaps due to its being so old and in a dead language commenting upon another dead language. In order for the 'New' to come in the covenant had to be 'Updated', so then the author of Hebrews would have been talking about the same thing though it reads strangely in English. We read it to mean 'Old' but it cannot mean that, since that isn't what Jeremiah meant. That may seem a little frustrating, because you cannot invalidate and therefore can not validate. Its frustrating from a fundamentalist point of view but not if you are flexible.
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IMHO, what Jeremiah referred to as "New Covenant" was in the method of observance and not because the Sinaitic Covenant had become obsolete. And the method was more in the sense of more personal responsibility due to the availability of the written Torah, which had to be read by Levites and scribes, and interpreted by prophets in terms of how to know the Lord. Now, that the Word of God was in our own mouth, so to speak, and in our own heart, that prophetical function was no longer necessary. (Deut. 30:11-14; Jer. 31:34)
Ben
 
Princely said:
You are very much mistaken because you do not understand scripture and the power of God.The reason that kind of prophet ended is because the Lord left the Jewish people to their own ways,since they would not walk in His ways. Jesus was a prophet, but much more.God warned the Jewish people prophet after prophet but they didn't listen so He said He was going back to His place until they pay for their guilt and they seek His presence.As far as putting His law within them and writing it upon their hearts so that least to greatest will know Him that hasn't happened yet, but will happen when man accepts the son of man and all the prophets of the Lord.


I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Lord except through me.
If you know me, then you will also know my Father
Whoever has seen me has seen the Lord.
Do you not believe that I am in the Lord and the Lord is in me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on my own. The Lord who lives in me is doing his works.
Believe me that I am in the Lord and the Lord is in me, or else, believe because of the works themselves.
Truly I say to you, whoever believes in me will do the works that I do.

The only one who's gone up to heaven is the One who came down from there,the son of man.I came down from heaven to do the will of the Lord who sent me. Anyone who chooses to do His will shall know about this teaching namely whether it comes from God or I am merely speaking on my own.
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You speak of heaven as a place to go to or to come from. You are contradicting Jesus' own words in Luke 17:21, that the kingdom of heaven is esoteric; i.e., within every one of us. An inner condition which we cause to ourselves and to others here on earth. And the statements you have quoted above, none describes Jesus as a prophet. Therefore, Jesus was not a prophet. The claim is simply based on Christian pre-conceived notions.
Ben
 
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