beyond islam is possible ?

kenshin

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peace be upon you
a few months ago, I was thinking about how to choose a religion. then I came to this statement
"Is it possible to deny Islam and accept previous religions?"
as I know, and I don't know a lot since I'm young, muslims brought different demonstration. now if one reject all of those, how can the one choose other Abrahamic religions?
have any idea? for example some grounded reasons which are just applicable for Christianity ? I ask for real not to challenge. :)
 
Islam means surrender, it is not the name of the religion, it is the most important statement of any religion. Every religious person, truly religious not just one who practices religion outwardly, tells us to surrender to God, to surrender our ego to the divine.

Do not choose this or that, do not allow yourself to become confused, focus only on God. The Quran tells us 'nothing exists save God', that oneness must be sought. Overcoming duality and finding that overall reality is the way. Trust your intuition as I said before, but remain focused on God until you know what God is - not merely a conception or idea, but something actualized.
 
thanks for mentioning the point
Islam means surrender, it is not the name of the religion, it is the most important statement of any religion. Every religious person, truly religious not just one who practices religion outwardly, tells us to surrender to God, to surrender our ego to the divine.
I here mean by Islam the religion which is brought by Muhammad (pbuh) not the the reality of Islam or religions. thanks for mentioning the point .
and generally I believe in your way bro. I actually follow the same path. maybe a bit, just a little bit, different than what you described. ( I just don't go for details for it's not related to this post)
 
Every religious person, truly religious not just one who practices religion outwardly, tells us to surrender to God, to surrender our ego to the divine.
This is not true of all religions in the world
 
This is not true of all religions in the world

Name a religion that doesn't say this.

Now, God is named variously in different religions, in your practice it is the higher self that is surrendered to but the meaning is the same. This is why I have said 'surrender the ego to the divine', the higher self is divine. You remain with the ego, and it is exactly because you refuse to surrender it.

You have had glimpses of truth apparently, yet you have not understood what has actually happened. Your mind has stopped functioning, you have become pure consciousness, you have surrendered to the moment and the present has exploded into reality. Why have you come out of these states? Have you looked at it? It will be because mind has arisen and you have become identified with its assertion. This talkative thought process is the ego, mind can exist in pure consciousness, and you have seen it you say.
 
Kenshin wrote:

I came to this statement

"Is it possible to deny Islam and accept previous religions?"

My comment:

In the Baha'i concept we accept Islam as a divine revelation as well as previous ones but for us it (Islam) is also a "previous religion".
 
Name a religion that doesn't say this.
Luciferianism - Satanism - Setianism

Now, God is named variously in different religions, in your practice it is the higher self that is surrendered to but the meaning is the same. This is why I have said 'surrender the ego to the divine', the higher self is divine. You remain with the ego, and it is exactly because you refuse to surrender it.
Surrendered to? I wouldn't say that at all.

You have had glimpses of truth apparently, yet you have not understood what has actually happened. Your mind has stopped functioning, you have become pure consciousness, you have surrendered to the moment and the present has exploded into reality. Why have you come out of these states? Have you looked at it? It will be because mind has arisen and you have become identified with its assertion. This talkative thought process is the ego, mind can exist in pure consciousness, and you have seen it you say.
LOL . . . are you on medication?
 
peace be upon you
a few months ago, I was thinking about how to choose a religion. then I came to this statement
"Is it possible to deny Islam and accept previous religions?"
as I know, and I don't know a lot since I'm young, muslims brought different demonstration. now if one reject all of those, how can the one choose other Abrahamic religions?
have any idea? for example some grounded reasons which are just applicable for Christianity ? I ask for real not to challenge. :)

Christianity and Islam are very different at least the type of Christianity that I have been involved in.

For me Islam was about rules, whereas Christianity is about relationship and intimacy with God.

There are also plenty of other modern religions to consider also, Wicca, Bahai, Satanism, Scientology, Unity etc.
 
NCOT has a point. However, some of us have found (mainstream, esp in the U.S.) Christianity has too many rules as well. And if you meet a Sufi or a very old-fashioned Sunni, you may find that rules are (if just a little) flexible. Kind alike the traditions of Rabbinic Judaism (halakha, I believe). But it is very hard to get culturally inside of the Sufi and Kabbalic-Hasidic tradition. It is not so hard to get inside of the "radical wing" of Christianity (Unity, UU, RSF).

Best of luck!
 
islam just means surrender to God.

anyone who does that, whether calling themselves christian or whatever, automatically accepts islam.
 
Even though those who want to claim exclusive right to the term differ with that stance. Big deal... Einstein never did accept quantum mechanics, Mach never accepted the existence of atoms, Mel Gibson does not accept Shoah... we all have shortcomings.
 
islam just means surrender to God.

anyone who does that, whether calling themselves christian or whatever, automatically accepts islam.

islam is the religion founded by mohamed, Christians, Hindus, Seiks etc who dedicate themselves to God are not muslims, a muslim is a follower of mohamed.
 
thanks for the answer
sorry but I asked for reasons and demonstration and proofs for other religions. what you mentioned are your valuable feelings about religions and that's appreciable. however I'm asking for demonstration. thanks.
and about Islam. there are two usage :
1 - followers of muhammad(pbuh)
2 - follower of the truth and the obedient observer of it.
( these concepts are normally mistaken even among muslims)
 
I asked for reasons and demonstration and proofs for other religions. what you mentioned are your valuable feelings about religions and that's appreciable. however I'm asking for demonstration. thanks.
and about Islam. there are two usage :
1 - followers of muhammad(pbuh)
2 - follower of the truth and the obedient observer of it.
( these concepts are normally mistaken even among muslims)
I'm sorry, but how does one 'demonstrate' or 'prove' a religion?
 
peace be upon you
a few months ago, I was thinking about how to choose a religion. then I came to this statement
"Is it possible to deny Islam and accept previous religions?"
as I know, and I don't know a lot since I'm young, muslims brought different demonstration. now if one reject all of those, how can the one choose other Abrahamic religions?
have any idea? for example some grounded reasons which are just applicable for Christianity ? I ask for real not to challenge. :)
I'll get back to your original post; and ask you why would you need to limit yourself only to the Abrahamic religions?
 
I'll get back to your original post; and ask you why would you need to limit yourself only to the Abrahamic religions?
if there is any other religion that you can prove its sacredness, bring it up :)

I'm sorry, but how does one 'demonstrate' or 'prove' a religion?
just prove it's from God and how we can trust it. even if it was from God, how do we know that it remained the same.
 
thanks for the answer
sorry but I asked for reasons and demonstration and proofs for other religions.

no you did not

peace be upon you
a few months ago, I was thinking about how to choose a religion. then I came to this statement
"Is it possible to deny Islam and accept previous religions?"
as I know, and I don't know a lot since I'm young, muslims brought different demonstration. now if one reject all of those, how can the one choose other Abrahamic religions?
have any idea? for example some grounded reasons which are just applicable for Christianity ? I ask for real not to challenge.

what you mentioned are your valuable feelings about religions and that's appreciable. however I'm asking for demonstration. thanks.
and about Islam. there are two usage :
1 - followers of muhammad(pbuh)
2 - follower of the truth and the obedient observer of it.
( these concepts are normally mistaken even among muslims)

did you not like the answers you got and now need to change the questiosn ? :rolleyes:
 
if there is any other religion that you can prove its sacredness, bring it up :)


just prove it's from God and how we can trust it. even if it was from God, how do we know that it remained the same.
I can neither prove any religion is sacred or comes from any god because there are no gods, this includes all your Abrahamic religions.
 
Salaam kenshin

shaykh nuh keller has a very straight forward and clear cut article on this that really couldn't be more to the point; enjoy! :):

the Qur'an says, "We do not differentiate between any of His messengers" (Qur'an 2:285), showing that previous religions were the same in beliefs, and though differing in provisions of works, and now abrogated by the final religion, were valid in their own times.

As for today, only Islam is valid or acceptable now that Allah has sent it to all men, for the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) has said,
"By Him in whose hand is the soul of Muhammad, any person of this Community, any Jew, or any Christian who hears of me and dies without believing in what I have been sent with will be an inhabitant of hell" (al-Baghawi: Sharh al-sunna 1.104).
This hadith was also reported by Muslim in his Sahih by `Abd al-Razzaq in his Musannaf, and others. It is a rigorously authenticated (sahih) evidence that clarifies the word of Allah in surat Al 'Imran
"Whoever seeks a religion other than Islam will never have it accepted from him, and shall be of those who have truly failed in the next life" (Qur'an 3:85)
and many other verses and hadiths. That Islam is the only remaining valid or acceptable religion is necessarily known as part of our religion, and to believe anything other than this is unbelief (kufr) that places a person outside of Islam, as Imam Nawawi notes:
"Someone who does not believe that whoever follows another religion besides Islam is an unbeliever (like Christians), or doubts that such a person is an unbeliever, or considers their sect to be valid, is himself an unbeliever (kafir) even if he manifests Islam and believes in it" (Rawda al-talibin, 10.70).
This is not only the position of the Shafi'i school of jurisprudence represented by Nawawi, but is also the recorded position of all three other Sunni schools: Hanafi (Ibn 'Abidin: Radd al-muhtar 3.287), Maliki (al-Dardir: al-Sharh al-saghir, 4.435), and Hanbali (al-Bahuti: Kashshaf al-qina', 6.170). Those who know fiqh literature will note that each of these works is the foremost fatwa resource in its school. The scholars of Sacred Law are unanimous about the abrogation of all other religions by Islam because it is the position of Islam itself. It only remains for the sincere Muslim to submit to, in which connection Ibn al-`Arabi has said:
"Beware lest you ever say anything that does not conform to the pure Sacred Law. Know that the highest stage of the perfected ones (rijal) is the Sacred Law of Muhammad (Allah bless him and give him peace). And know that the esoteric that contravenes the exoteric is a fraud" (al-Burhani: al-Hall al-sadid, 32).

Traditional Islam certainly does not accept the suggestion that
"it is true that many Muslims believe that the universality of guidance pertains only to pre-Qur'anic times, but others disagree; there is no 'orthodox' interpretation here that Muslims must accept" (Religious Diversity, 124).​
Orthodoxy exists, it is unanimously agreed upon by the scholars of Muslims, and we have conveyed in Nawawi's words above that to believe anything else is unbelief. As for "others disagree," it is true, but is something that has waited for fourteen centuries of Islamic scholarship down to the present century to be first promulgated in Cairo in the 1930s by the French convert to Islam Rene Gunon, and later by his student Frithjof Schuon and writers under him. Who else said it before? And if no one did, and everyone else considers it kufr, on what basis should it be accepted?

Universal Validity of Religions
 
Kenshin-- what you ask is pretty much impossible. What do you mean by "sacredness"? Do you mean "holy" and not "wholy"? Sanctity is an experience--not the judgement of some Religious leader or Holy man. Does it bestow love and unity? Or does it only bestow a mythic beleif?

What do you mean "from God"? G!d does not exist in some (what may be incorrectly termed) religions. Off the top of my head the Sanatana (Hindu) Dharma does not necessarily believe in what we call G!d, nor does Buddhism, nor does Taoism, nor does almost all Aboriginal Spritualities. So what you mean by G!d must be defined first. IMHO G!d is that which bestows mystical experiences, creativity in everything, and the rules-of-the-game (which may be laws of logic, physics, Catholic Theology, or the Ten Commandments). So "G!d speaks" to those listed above as well as Zorastrians, Jews, Christians, Muslims, Sikhs, Ba'hais (all Abrahamic religions). And "from G!d" for me does not mean something written or taught (necessarily).

What do you mean by "how we can trust it"? About the same way we can trust all of mathematics more complex than arithmetic after Godel: faith and reasoning. There ain't no proof (logical at least), so do not waste time trying.

What so you mean "know that it remained the same"? For me this would be evidence of a false Religiousness. The universe evolves, everything is change, so I wouold not expect G!d to speak to Zarathustra the same way Sh! speaks to me.

If you are asking all of these from within an Abrahamic frame of reference and G!d cannot be a pantheistic or panentheistic something and the "Truth" comes from some "Written Word", that is fine. Most Westerners (especially here in the U.S.) see it that way. There are more things in heaven and earth, Kenshin, than are dreamt of in your philosophy (sorry Bill).
 
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