Spiritual Stages Advice?

[TruthSatnaam]

=Lunitik;264949]Again, we are shown that mind must be conquered, it is the very mind which is Satan - the adversary. Yet, where is information stored? How can you go beyond the mind, how can you encounter your true self, when you remain confined to the mind? This I call sin, anything which is intended to save the mind, for as long as the mind remains the master, you remain distinct from God, you continue to miss. Jesus says repent, return to God, Krishna says we must dissociate with all doing, see that the only doer is God, that we are all merely characters he is playing. Buddha simply says all separation is illusion.

Please understand.

Great post...

We should understand that the mind does not need to be conquered, for it does not exist.

The Truth reality has, is and always will be the Most Simple and Most Humble.

The Truth= Nothing.

God discovered himself to be this after many ages- and has given us the oppertunity to discover the same in a fraction of the time..

It is simply a frequency beyond which Maya(Illusion) dwellers can comprehend- for they live in the mind, and not the heart which is the key- the doorway to Truth (Our heart is His heart/is the entire creation and beyond).

When the Mind/Ego/Identity/5 thieves(as As Gurbani calls them)/logic is recognised as God himself- as the Truth of Nothing-As simply a part of God's illusionary play which He Himself Pervades, it finds it's death.

 

[Persona]

I am speaking about a recognition of "me me me" and "you you you" is not different at all, and it is something very important in what you have talked about here. You cannot allow the child to be a burden, there is no reason why you should feel down about being a mother, like it is the end of you. There is no reason you can't be carefree and fancy free while still being responsible for the child, it is just a new dimension in your life but you will add more stress to it all if you think this is a sacrifice. A child is not a sacrifice, it is a gift, it is the most beautiful experience in life to actually create life yourself.

Of course, I go on saying that love growing is actually life growing within you, there is no possible way to exhaust the supply unless you cut the cord of love. It is very easy, and life teaches you in its way that it is just whenever you do things (traditionally) selfishly, when you see the benefits as being strictly for your own life, when you are asking how you will be repaid for this, you always feel more exhausted when it is done. It only takes a little change in perception, approach everything through love and you will always have more in reserve, this is an law of existence, the more you share the more comes back to you.

Hi Lunitik,
You might not check this, so I might just copy & email you my response.
I like your point about loving with no strings attached. Yet, I wonder how realistic that is. Don't we all give to get something - otherwise we wouldn't give, would we? We're all selfish - even God. If God were all about us & not doing it for a higher purpose, he'd be all over the place (inconsistent spiritually, etc) because we are. I think it's not such a bad thing, as long as it's "smart" (not stupid) selfishness. Smart selfishness knows that we are all connected & that what I do affects others & that I'm also affected by others.

Still, I can see what you mean about perspective in giving... When we give when we feel empty inside, we feel emotionally in debt. But when we give from our hearts that are filled with love, it's like a natural outpouring.

 

[Persona]

1: archaic consciousness of Infants-- to me, this doesn't exist. Children only "know" the Gods they are given

Children have an amazing imagination - they believe in EVERYTHING!
Archaic consciousness is about the stage when infants are co-dependant to the max - they don't realize they are separate from their mothers (or caregivers).

2. Magical consciousness of Children -- all children are prone to "magical thinking". It's like... reality testing. All children exposed to religious conditioning will participate in reality testing. "If I pray, can I make the bad things go away?" "If I pray, will God love/protect/listen to me?".

Yeah, good examples.

3. mythic consciousness -- children believe the themes of the stories they have been presented with -- they know their religious histories, and believe in them...

Yes, this is the stage of strict adherence to rules, & the belief that all others must believe & follow the same. In the extreme, religious persecutions/wars are based on this level.

4. rational consciousness -- most people never develop a rational consciousness. Unfortunately. They stick with the magical thinking. Until something really BIG happens, and they become severely disappointed.

Probably - many have mixed this stage with mythic consciousness.

5. vision-logic consciousness "seeing is believing". Hardly anyone ever "sees". They pretend instead. IMHO.

Either we pretend to understand other perspectives, or we are completely clueless that there are any other way of viewing things besides the one we've adopted from years of tradition.

6. Psychic consciousness -- most of the people I meet who profess to be psychic are not. In my belief system, this is stage 3

I'm really not an expert on this - especially starting with this phase. But what I think "psychic consciousness" is really in essence (as Lunitik mentioned before) - is a understanding & sensing of energetic consequences.

7. Dark Night of the Senses -- aka the Long Dark Night of The Soul... In my belief system, this exists, but not as a seperate stage.

I agree - it seems to be mingled with other stages - I think all they all are often integral. But there are times when I've realized what I really wanted couldn't be satisfied by my 5 senses.

8. Subtle Consciousness -- this exists, in my system, but it wouldn't be placed here.

I'm not sure about this one either - I think it's a deeper awareness of truth & "feasting after the spirit."

9. Dark Night of the soul -- see 7, above...

Often depression may be part of this - except, I guess as one realizes oneself spiritually more & more... the depression isn't about superficial things, but it's getting more & more to the heart of our fears & shame that we've buried.

10. Resurrection from the Dark Night -- this wouldn't occur, in my system

We tend to bounce back.
Whenever I've been depressed or sick for a while, when I get & feel better, I feel like a new person! I appreciate things more.

11. Christ (or however you define God) Consciousness -- this occurs, but not here, in my system..

I like how you pointed out that it's "however you define God."

12. Nondual Consciousness -- this occurs, in my system, but not here.

Wholeness - again, I think it's more integral, than stages.

Instead, I have a... system like this...

1 Self's Knowledge of God -- ecstatic, fervent, massive, transcendental
2 "God" and self merging -- transforming, blessed, in love,
3 development of psychic powers/holyness --uniting, becoming, absorbing
4 fall from grace -- realising the idol has feet of clay/realising you're not the controller/ getting your fingers burnt/having somebody pee on your bonfire
5 long dark teatime of the soul -- coming to terms with the reality of things, recovering, realigning, replenishing,
6 self and god shake hands -- acceptance of reality, both good and bad
7 easy acceptance... have come to terms, have loosened up, less fervent, less polemical...

This, of course, is based on the assumption wanting to know more of God, wanting to develop "spiritually" springs from an actual "meeting with source", as opposed to... hearing about it from somebody else...

Thank you for sharing your system, Sam.
I agree that our experience of God/spirituality is personal.

 

[Persona]

I am sometimes mystified at the lengths which the human mind will go to continue the illusion.
This conversation is surprising, shocking, and (you'll pardon me? ) amusing....
I find it very interesting that folks are always looking for a ruler to measure how "advanced" they are. Spiritual Stages? I'm thinking STAGE COACH........
There are only two states which are important to the actual spiritual seeker, as far as I see it. Asleep and awake...

I don't think it's about measuring "advancement" but more about trying to understand spiritual processes, as we want to understand psychological & physiological processes.
I don't think it's essential to intellectually understand spiritual stages, unless that's how you resonate. I like to mix logic with spirituality - it helps me understand & relate it with everyday practical living.
Sometimes, I've had spiritual experiences that confused & scared me.
I think it's important to keep both logic & spirit balanced. If you're too logical, you miss passion, if you're too spiritual (without logic), you might end up doing something unhealthy for yourself or others (or "lose a few marbles" mentally).