the resurrection of the body & the life of the world-to-come

[Thomas]

The body is suppose to be transformed into a spirit body

Yes ... it's still a body.

I do not understand why so many concentrate on death when the bible talks so much about the attainment of this new body.

I rather contend with the notion that escaping this world in pursuit of a spiritual otherworld is the aim of Christianity. It's not.

Perfection of man can only happen in this world. To be human is to be spirit and matter — a spiritual being is not a human being, whereas a human being is a spiritual being — most miss that point.

Doesnt faith in god ...

Faith is God is shown by resting in the content of Scripture. You seem to proclaim a lot of things that are not derived nor proven by Scripture?

God bless,

Thomas

 

[donnann]

Yes ... it's still a body.


I rather contend with the notion that escaping this world in pursuit of a spiritual otherworld is the aim of Christianity. It's not.

Perfection of man can only happen in this world. To be human is to be spirit and matter — a spiritual being is not a human being, whereas a human being is a spiritual being — most miss that point.


Faith is God is shown by resting in the content of Scripture. You seem to proclaim a lot of things that are not derived nor proven by Scripture?

God bless,

Thomas

Isnt it about the attainment of a higher state of being. An immortal body that is one with spirit and soul but made up of more spirit ? I call that body the crystal body consisting of nothing but whole body consciousness. Chakras are points of union but to me this body is like opening up the flood gates to those points so that the whole body is that light.

 

[Thomas]

Isnt it about the attainment of a higher state of being.

Well 'popular' notions would have ideas of pseudo-angelic beings, etc ... but the orthodox line is no.

After God, there is no higher state of being than man, who is composed of spirit, soul and matter, and thus all created natures are summed up, as it were, in human nature.

Christianity is about participation in the Divine Life by filiation (sonship by adoption).

An immortal body that is one with spirit and soul but made up of more spirit?

Well that's a fair guess, but it's just a guess. We don't know, do we? A body that is immortal and incorruptible will be something different to how we understand 'bodies' to be. Remember that that spirits are corruptible.

I call that body the crystal body consisting of nothing but whole body consciousness.

I'm discussing what the Christian tradition understands, not what we as individuals assume ... I can't imagine what 'whole body consciousness' is, or why we would need it ... to my mind it's not a quantitative thing, but a qualitative thing.

Chakras are points of union but to me this body is like opening up the flood gates to those points so that the whole body is that light.

As above ... the 'light' that Christianity speaks of is not the same order of light that the chakras speak of ...

God bless,

Thomas

 

[salishan]

Q: "Rabbi, I hear these things you say. How may we serve you?"
A: "The Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve."

AndrewX
exquisite creature

Jesus the Galilean is a parablist
& parables create expectations , then
subtly (or not so subtly) work-against those expectations

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

1. in the ancient (polytheistic) world

Temple gods are there to be served
(thru songs of praise & edible sacrifices) &
this includes the Jerusalem Temple of Jesus' day

this quip by Jesus the Galilean about "the Son of Man"
is a statement against the Jerusalem Temple
(& against the Sadducees & rich families which support the Temple)

(the gods are amoral
though they will abide by contracts with humans
humans recognized only as a block-of-people , as a tribe or a nation
abide by the covenant just as long as the humans keep-up-their-end)

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

2. in the ancient (polytheistic) world

Kings are meant to be served
(they are often perceived as divine or semi-divine beings)

so too the popular Jewish expectation
about the arrival of the Son of Man

a triumphant warrior-King
who will expand Gyd's kingdom from not just the Heavens
but extend Gyd's domain to encompass Earth , as well
(like Persia overtaking Babylon , a half-millennium earlier)

this Son of Man (this warrior-King) is a Lord to be served
to rally behind & give martial aid to , in
ridding the planet of the "impure" Roman status-quo

& here
Jesus the Galilean is implying
that this folk-expectation is the wrong expectation
that the change (the apocalypse) to come is far more profound

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

3. the end of the ancient (polytheistic) world is imminent

(a whole new picture of reality is at-hand
a reality devoid of Temple gods & of savior-Kings)

the whole nature of Divinity
is about to change
is soon to be turned inside-out

(or rather
turned
outside-in )

to Jesus the Galilean
the "command-structure" has ended
(& now) everybody matters

(instead) the Divine will serve
(will aid in the furtherance of) individual-human
person-to-person ( humane / moral ) pursuits

Gyd points
Gyd redirects natural-impulses

 

[taijasi]

Poignant & relevant commentary, salishan!

I like #3 especially. Perhaps it can be summed up in the phrase `Right Human Relations.'

Some might think that this sounds Humanistic. It can be, but if this seems to imply a limitation - exclusive of Deity - I would argue that this need not be the case.

Perhaps the Kingdom of Heaven can only manifest ... when we have taken one step closer to accepting the responsibility of being our Brother's keeper. Many already have, and do.

If the Kingdom of Heaven is to come into existence on Earth, I will expect that to occur *through* Humanity, and *with Humanity's help* ... not despite humanity.

Who better to demonstrate what the Kingdom of Heaven looks like *in expression* than Christ Jesus?

And what better way than to choose a variety of individuals to express various Heavenly or spiritual qualities [Divine archetypes, Virtues & ideals]?

I notice he didn't have to wait around until he died, however. And he sure isn't the one responsible for all the folks getting confused about the details of Resurrection and the life to come. There were already abundant problems with the theology extant before Christ's coming ... which obviously are every bit as clear [as mud] today.

"All your followers are blind/Too much heaven on their minds"
"... and they'll hurt you when they THINK you've lied"
​

 

[salishan]

What about St. Paul and his discussion of spiritual bodies?

AndrewX
exquisite creature

the idea of the spiritual body
is key to the thinking of Paul of Tarsus , in his Corinth-letters

u are correct to query about it

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

to Paul of Tarsus
Jesus the Galilean is essentially no different than any other human-being
Jesus' corpse (at Easter) did not leave the tomb
(the "empty tomb" is a folk-anecdote produced by later Gospel writers)

Jesus is given (instead) a "new body" (one without "impurities")
a body fit for heaven , & it is this body via which "Jesus ascends to heaven"

& Paul of Tarsus anticipates all righteous souls , at the end of time
to (likewise) leave their impure (perishable) corpse in the grave &
be given a new ("incorruptible") body , when the Final Trumpet blasts

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

for as in Adam , all die
so in Christ , all will be made alive

AndrewX , replace (in this text)
the word "Adam" with the word "flesh", &
the word "Christ" with the word "spirit"
& u get the true gist of Paul of Tarsus' concept

for in the flesh , each person will die
so in the spirit , each person will live on

flesh is our human inheritance (genetic instinct-driven behaviors)
spirit is our portal linking us the divine (to Gyd-embracing conduct)

because no human is more than 49% spirit (at least 51% flesh)
this is why the Law of Moses is needed , as a brake upon instinctual behaviors
(to make us righteous , despite ourselves)

but then Jesus the Galilean comes along
53% spirit , only 47% flesh
(a tipping-point is reached , critical-mass achieved)
& the Law of Moses becomes irrelevant for Jesus
because he can walk-in-righteousness without the crutch of the Law
(& so too , others who learn to walk in Jesus' footsteps)

human behavior has a new software
(a non-instinctual software) , &
this software can be taught
(because the ingredients are already inside us)
taught , by the grace of the spirit

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Paul fumbles with the language to speak his idea
but this is essentially what Paul of Tarsus means

if u'r investment in spirit
crests over this 50% mark
in the blink of an eye , everything is changed

the only thing "special" about Jesus
(to Paul of Tarsus) is that
Jesus the Galilean was first (first to crest , first to breach)

Jesus pulls us (each) out of the impure kingdom of the flesh
& shows us (each) the spiritual way (a new software of behavior)

&
this is our saving grace

 

[taijasi]

Yep ... minor points of difference aside [truly minor!] ... and I quite agree.

Sounds like the Perennial Wisdom, or Ageless Wisdom with which I am familiar.

Seems like a famous poet somewhere once reminded us that no matter what you call a rose, it remains just as fragrant.

So quickly-quipped, I wonder if people realize what this is emphasizing!

Cheers!