Some things about Religion i have observed

I thank your God that I don't live in a real Theocracy like Americans do. My theocracy in the UK is simply nominal and non-belief is not a crime. America has First-Amendment separation of church and state but ignores its Constitution. The Republicans are recognised here and around the world as a Christian Taliban.

Amergin, proud to be free to think.
 
Amergin, proud to be free to think.
And yet it seems to me you claim the same kind of often ill-informed polemical nonsense as the majority of the anti-religious, and when confronted with material evidence to the contrary of your opinions, you put metaphorical hands over your ears and chant 'la-la-la' ... ;)

God bless

Thomas
 
If you talk about scientists of the past, of course most will either be theists or hide their non-theism. Those mentioned by Thomas, except for Einstein, were at least nominal theists. Galileo was threatened by the Inquisition for noting planets had moons. I suspect his belief was out of fear of the Inquisition. Giordano Bruno was burned alive because he said stars were other suns and refused to acknowledge Christian Mythological Creation. Hypatia was beaten, dragged through the streets, drawn and quartered by Christian Monks on orders from St. Cyril, Bishop of Alexandria. Her crime was teaching the ancient Greek sciences such as the globular Earth, Heliocentrism, and an early theory of biological evolution.

Christianity has never felt kindly to scientists. They like paedophiles but not scientists.

A survey carried out of members of the American Association for Science recently put the figure at 93% - ie, only 7% were believers. The percentage of UK scientists who are non-theists is higher but close to America.

I find that interesting that 93% of Non-Theists versus 7% theists is nearly opposite the numbers in non-scientist Americans. Common Americans are 90% theists (89% probably Christians) while Atheists number somewhere between 5% to 15% among non-scientists. Of course we must remember that Atheists are the most hated minority in Extremely Christian America. They are more hated than gays, Muslims, and Blacks.

Therefore, many people are quite afraid of admitting atheism to any pollster or questioner. It could cost an American his/her job being fired for some other made up excuse. Most scientists are not under so much public pressure. Among Medical Doctors, about 95% of Neurologists and Neuroscientists are atheistic. Yet, at least 80% of Family Doctors who receive patients without referral. Atheist outing destroyed several practiced in America. Having taught briefly in a US medical school, I found almost no Theists in 2nd and 3rd year Med Students. They learn from experienced family physicians and the general public hatred level makes those going into self-referral practices, hide or even lie about believing. Academic and research specialists are protected by their institutions and not forced to pretend to believe in gods.

Amergin

I thank your God that I don't live in a real Theocracy like Americans do. My theocracy in the UK is simply nominal and non-belief is not a crime. America has First-Amendment separation of church and state but ignores its Constitution. The Republicans are recognised here and around the world as a Christian Taliban.

Amergin, proud to be free to think.

Amergin, I think you have drunk the Kool-Aide. While there might be plenty of hate to go around here in the US, I seriously doubt that atheists are anywhere near the top of the most hated list. (That honor would have to go to child-molesters.) Here's an excerpt from the wiki article on Religion in the United States:


Religion in the United States is characterized by both a wide diversity of religious beliefs and practices and by a high adherence level. According to recent surveys, 83 percent of Americans identify with a religious denomination, 40 percent state that they attend services nearly every week or more, and 58 percent say that they pray at least weekly.[1] A majority of Americans report that religion plays a "very important" role in their lives, a proportion unique among developed nations.[2] Many faiths have flourished in the United States, including both later imports spanning the country's multicultural immigrant heritage, as well as those founded within the country; these have led the United States to become one of the most religiously diverse countries in the world.[3]
The majority of Americans (76% to 80%) identify themselves as Protestants or Catholics, accounting for 51% and 25% of the population respectively, according to one survey by Trinity College.[4] Non-Christian religions (including Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism etc.), collectively make up about 5% of the adult population.[4][5][6] Another 15% of the adult population claim no religious affiliation.[4] When asked, about 5.2% said they did not know, or refused to reply.[4] According to the American Religious Identification Survey, religious belief varies considerably by region. The lowest rate is in the West with 59% reporting a belief in God, and the highest rate in the South (the "Bible Belt") at 86%.[4][7]
Despite a high level of religious adherence, only 9% of Americans in a 2008 poll said religion was the most important thing in their life, compared with 45% who said family was paramount in their life and 17% who said money and career was paramount.[8] Mark Chaves, a Duke University professor of sociology, religion and divinity, found that 92% of Americans believed in God in 2008 but that they have significantly less confidence in their religious leaders than they did a generation ago.[9]
I admit that living here on the west coast where 41% of the people do not report a belief in God might have something to do with my puzzlement over your claim of atheists being hated. I look around and see absolutely no supporting evidence for this. Sure, there are the Secular Fundamentalist Activists whacks who do such ridiculous things as vandalize nativity scenes on private property, and try to ban "giving trees" and such (among other things,) most of the people around here recognize them as the whack jobs they are. We don't lump all atheists in with them any more than we lump all Christians in with the whack jobs from Westboro Baptist Church.
 
Well Amergin, all well and good. Wow, big surprise, over 90% of scientists are non-theistic. That does not mean (as you claimed in Post #17 herein) that they do not believe in spirituality. Not the same thing at all (sorry, Brother Thomas, but we can continue our debate elsewhere).

You miss the flip-side of our Yankee Dominationalism (the kind of religious belief you criticize, quite well in your responses to my comment), our Yankee Pragmatism. In the early days of the XXth Century New England thinkers like Emerson, James, and (though German still part of this in spirit) Otto explored a modern conception of spirituality as something separate from Religion. The teachings of Crowley, Blavatsky, Steiner, Guenon, Shuon, and Heelas have bled into this sophisticated foundation along with dogmatic secularism to create a "New Age" belief in a kind of "do your own thing" spirituality.

It really is the polar opposite (in beliefs and world-view and ideology) of what you deride us Yanks for. However, polls among scientists, mathematicians, philosophers, and engineers show that this form of modern conception of spirituality is widely held.

The exceptions seem to be Einsteinian strict materialists (a pervasive post-modern ideology that seems scientific, but ain't). So along with those (it seems you are one) and the Dominationalists you deride, you must consider both we "metaphysical" (in terms of classic philosophy) spiritualists and the "New Age" spiritualists; neither of whom are strictly theistic (by most accounts) but still are not materialists.
 
Radar and Thomas, I respect your views though I disagree. I must stick to my perceptions of religiosity good and bad. I recognise that some churches do great charity work. All US Christians are not Taliban types. But I believe some of them really are extreme and hateful. I experienced several examples of hate toward me in Texas. I once wrote a letter to the local paper supporting teaching evolution in schools. For that I received hate filled responses, night-time telephone threats. My letter did not claim atheism. Rednecks just assumed it. Pictures of my house my infant son and wife in an envelope, I found in my mail box. Police, unsympathetic, said, "you brought this on yourself, criticising American faith." I never criticised faith. I criticised education. I moved quickly in fear of my family's safety. Let us not make our debate too personal.
 
Radar and Thomas, I respect your views though I disagree. I must stick to my perceptions of religiosity good and bad. I recognise that some churches do great charity work. All US Christians are not Taliban types. But I believe some of them really are extreme and hateful. I experienced several examples of hate toward me in Texas. I once wrote a letter to the local paper supporting teaching evolution in schools. For that I received hate filled responses, night-time telephone threats. My letter did not claim atheism. Rednecks just assumed it. Pictures of my house my infant son and wife in an envelope, I found in my mail box. Police, unsympathetic, said, "you brought this on yourself, criticising American faith." I never criticised faith. I criticised education. I moved quickly in fear of my family's safety. Let us not make our debate too personal.

Wow. When and where was this? (So I know to avoid that area! :eek:)
 
It seems Britain exported intolerant Christians and the response has been intolerant atheism.

That's the impression of an outsider looking in; gleaned from forums and news articles. If I'd read Amergin's appalling anecdote in isolation I would have thought 'sounds like America...'

Sorry, but that is how it looks.
 
Back
Top