And When the Leaders Are Worst Than the People They Lead...

Amica

Amica

Well-Known Member
Messages
649
Reaction score
11
Points
18
Belgrade (Serbia) mufti calls Serbia's Muslims as "Serb" Muslims and states that he is a "serb patriot." His statements would not be an issue if he used different terminology. "Serb" refers to an ethnic group. "Serbian" would refer to someone from the country of Serbia. His calling Serbia's Muslims as "Serb Muslims" is an offense as that is what Serb nationalists claimed when they decided to start the war in the Balkans. "Serb Muslims must be reverted back to the heavenly faith, Christianity." Also, the mufti is a patriot of an ethnic group, not of Serbia as a country.

In the Communist era, fake muftis, imams, priests, bishops--were all common. They worked for Udba, a secret service that spied on people. Anyone working against the state had to be reported. Obviously, Serbian government has decided to continue using some of the Udba servants for their own personal agendas.

Allah SWT please protect us from people like this! Truly, Allah SWT told us that we will recognize fake Muslims by their speech.

JUSUFSPAHI?, SLU?BENIK SRPSKE PRAVOSLAVNE CRKVE POD AHMEDIJOM — Bosnjaci.Net
 
Okay, this is what I remember from my time there during the USA's involvement and from my Catholic Serb sixth-grade teacher (bless you where ever you went to Nickshaw Padovan). The three languages (Croatian, Serbian, and Bosnian) are mutaully understandable but in three different alphabets: Croatian in Roman, Serbian in Cyrillic, and Bosnian in a strange psudo-Arabic (I am using Bosnia to refer to the Muslim group in Former Yougoslavia). And they proctice three different faiths: Catholic Croatian, Orthodox Serbian, and Islamic Bosnians. However, the genetic testing show that the three groups (and the Montenegrans) are one ethnicity racially.

At one time all three spoke the same language and lived pretty much the same way (Bosnians and Montenegrans have always been more Isolated). The Catholics converted the Croats (hence the Roman alphabet). The Orthodix the Serbs (hence the Cyrillic). Bosnia fell somewhere in-between (early alphabet Cyrillic but faith Catholic, I think). The "Bogomillian Crusade" changed that... The Bosnians kept some heretical views (to the Catholics, which may or may not have been semi-Gnostic). They were ripe for conversion when the Ottomans conquered all three peoples (so they did).

The rest of the history you know. Croats seem to dispise Serbs and Bosnians. Serbs dispise the Croats and Bosnians. Bosnians the Croats and Serbs. And the divides go so deep (as deep as the infamous divisions of the Bedouins Lawrence wrote about). But they all speak the same language, have the same genetics, and (more or less) the same culture (sans religion--Bosnians actually seem to put religion in a second place to their folk culture, see Fine's Bosnian Church).

Bottom line, the mufti is a patriot for a religious group, IMHO. Politically and ethnically there is no difference between him and the Serbs around him (if he is not an alien from outside the Former Yugoslavia).
 
nearly all leaders of organised religion are utterly devoid of any integrity :eek:
 
Well, that was one of George Fox's reasons for forming the Seekers of the Truth, Children of the Light, and Religious Society of Friends. And that is why integrity is our firstest and mostest trestamony. Oh, and why we have no leaders or an organized religion.
 
radarmark said:
Well, that was one of George Fox's reasons for forming the Seekers of the Truth, Children of the Light, and Religious Society of Friends. And that is why integrity is our firstest and mostest trestamony. Oh, and why we have no leaders or an organized religion.
Click to expand...

sounds good.
 
Hi Radarmark,

You are right in much what you said. The issue is not about how physically or culturally alike we are. The issue lies in where the mufti's priorities are. As a religious leader of a group, he should try to represent that group. It is one thing to say that he is a patriot of a nation and feels that two peoples have so much to share. However, it is completely different thing to call an ethnic group by the name of other, or with the prefix of the other--especially when such names have very serious political connotations.

You see, there is no question that paganism predated Christianity in the Balkans. And the facts are that Christianity predated Islam in the Balkans. Balkan Muslims will never deny such facts. However, calling the Balkan Muslims with prefix of "Croat" or "Serb" five hundred years later, makes no sense, is disrespectful and degrading, as such prefixes were used to mobilize mobs of Croat and Serb nationalists to support the divisions in Bosnia, and entice people to violence through the world wars, as well as the recent one.

Imagine a rabbi calling Jews of Germany "Christian Jews." I am sure that would cause some outrage among the Jews from the country. The people may not have problems being referred to as "German Jews," but they could have problem with "Christian Jews."
 
Amica, I do catch the difference... I was just pointing out that "ehnic leader" (to my way of thinking having different genetic background, like telling Polish Jews from Poles) really is not (if we go by that criteria) appropriate either.

Of course, neither was my lumping Muslims together as Bosnians (but we outsiders have a hard time with all the subtilties).
 
im an english muslim and an english patriot too! :)

can anyone guess what i mean by that? well you all have probably got the first part right; i a muslim from england! :D

now the second part means i ferverntly want the best for my country, which is Islam! ;)

thus here we can see that it really is the definition one holds for such views that counts, now if someone hears my above quotes and says i should be ashamed for being a richard the mousey heart supporter [he did chicken away from a fight with muslims in Jeruselem! ;)], i'll tell him to put a sock in it! :D

so the moral of the story is, saying one is a serb muslim and patriot could be as innocent as a babies bottom, or as guilty as a Qura, oops sorry i mean westernist! :D


please ignore the silly jokes! :rolleyes:
 
Assalamu alaikum brother Abdullah--

But you said "English Muslim". You did not say "Christian" Muslim. There is a difference. In the post 1990s Balkan wars, Serbs have christened EVERYTHING with the prefix of "serb:" the roads, the sky, the earth, the country, the people. It is not "serbian" referring to the land of Serbia, no. It is in reference to ethnicity, with strong religious connotations. Get it? ;)
 
Amica, from what I remember you are quite correct. The Eastern Cristianity of the Serbian Church and its followers has really strayed from the loving G!D I believe in.
 
Radarmark--

Peace be upon you and all good people, Muslims and non-Muslims. I believe that not all Serbs are the same. All of us have hands, and not all fingers are the same size. People stray, no matter what religion/community. Unfortunately, it is usually the worst kind that is the loudest.
 
this is quite an interesting question. i can understand where you're coming from, amica, given the history and context. so you're saying that he is ultimately aiming to drive wedges between muslims in serbia and muslims in bosnia? but given the tensions in the area, wouldn't it be a good idea to stress one's commitment as a member of a religious group to the nation-state concerned? i mean, surely it's not going to be safe for muslims in serbia until they can feel comfortable saying "i'm a muslim serb" or "i'm a serbian muslim" or some combination that is suitable? surely the descriptor "serb" has to be decoupled from its ethnic connotations? we had to go through this in britain too - the idea that "all britons are christian" took decades, even centuries to be decoupled; now we can be british patriots, i think, even with an established church, without needing to worry that we are excluded from pride in our citizenship.

b'shalom

bananabrain
 
Looks like the hatfields and McCoys to me...


Somehow, somewhere we need to set egos and the need to be right aside if we have any wish to coexist on this earth....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top