Patriarchal practices

[Orpington]

Hello! I'm new here so please forgive if I don't follow correct protocol or if I ask a question previously discussed.

I am wondering what someone such a Job actually did in their religious life, was it simply an issue of them following their faith without works? And what might have been the practices/rites followed by the priests Melchizedek or Jethro? To my point, what would have been the differences between the Patriarchal Covenant and the Mosaic Covenant?

To help me search for the answer, what are your thoughts? Also does anyone know of a source which discusses the religious practices of the patriarchs, prior to the delivery of the Mosaic Law?

Thanks much,
T Orpington

 

[wil]

Welcome T.

I look forward to reading the replies you get....this is exactly why I like this place....the potential for discussion and answers to questions I am not even smart enough to ask!

 

[bananabrain]

Hello! I'm new here so please forgive if I don't follow correct protocol or if I ask a question previously discussed.

thank you for that - usually you'll be fine unless you start being rude and accusatory!

I am wondering what someone such a Job actually did in their religious life, was it simply an issue of them following their faith without works?

jewishly speaking, we are not too sure if job actually existed or if he's just a cautionary tale. "faith and works" is a very christian approach, but we would probably deduce it based on other stuff; if he is described as "righteous", that implies certain things, just as "he did evil in the Sight of G!D" implies certain other things. job's not really the person to pick here - he's clearly a believer in G!D, but it's not clear that he's jewish.

And what might have been the practices/rites followed by the priests Melchizedek or Jethro?

depends who you ask, really - they will answer you according to whatever aligns with their own idea of what constitutes appropriate behaviour for such an individual.

To my point, what would have been the differences between the Patriarchal Covenant and the Mosaic Covenant?

if i understand this correctly, this is kind of saying "how do you keep Torah before Torah was given?"

there are a number of different jewish answers to this:

1. "they had private Revelations of how to behave"
2. "they kept what had been Revealed at the time but not things that were only revealed / applied after sinai"
3. "they were on such a high spiritual level that they just deduced the stuff that hadn't been Revealed yet from the stuff that had"
4. "they supplemented the 'common law' via their private conversations with G!D with various innovations" (e.g. they followed standard Torah practice in family law, but things like the morning, afternoon and evening prayers were instituted by abraham, isaac and jacob respectively)

for me, it's kind of a combination of all four.

most muslims, however, would assume that they just "kept islam", as it is supposedly (not according to jews, of course) the "original religion of adam".

To help me search for the answer, what are your thoughts? Also does anyone know of a source which discusses the religious practices of the patriarchs, prior to the delivery of the Mosaic Law?

there is much discussion of this in the rabbinic sources, generally in respect of one or more of the four principles discussed above, such as the point at which isaac is meditating in the fields in the afternoon as rebecca arrives from paddan-aram.

b'shalom

bananabrain

 

[radarmark]

Where are the Noahide laws in all this? The prohibition of idolatry, murder, theft, and blasphemy and the establishment of forbidden sexual relationships, humane slaughter, and courts probably pre-date all the Patriarchial Covenants. These were probably a "minimal set" increased by the four processes bb outlined above.

 

[BrotherMichaelSky]

Hello! I'm new here so please forgive if I don't follow correct protocol or if I ask a question previously discussed.

I am wondering what someone such a Job actually did in their religious life, was it simply an issue of them following their faith without works? And what might have been the practices/rites followed by the priests Melchizedek or Jethro? To my point, what would have been the differences between the Patriarchal Covenant and the Mosaic Covenant?

To help me search for the answer, what are your thoughts? Also does anyone know of a source which discusses the religious practices of the patriarchs, prior to the delivery of the Mosaic Law?

Thanks much,
T Orpington

I have definite thoughts on the matter which arise from my years of studying Religious history - but I perceive you are looking for more orthodox interpretations.

If you get to the point you would like to entertain a complex discussion which moves away from the orthodox texts, I would be glad to discuss my beliefs.....

Years of medical problems have given me a strong interest in Job.... That particular book was one of my inspirations at an early age....

As far as the practices of the Patriarchs - it helps to realize that the Jewish world view is founded upon "OBSERVATION" of their God, and how he relates to His People.... The foundations of the Jewish Faith therefore, are based in a Real World approach - "This is what we have seen and noticed, so this,this, and this can be counted upon...."
By the time these observations were being recorded, there was already a solidified belief....

The very basic idea behind such a method of observation should have ensured that the faith of the Jews was open-ended..... as the messages of the prophets over time show - t'was not the case....

So, if you go back before the advent of the written Law - you would find groups which look very much like the surrounding groups - but who are trying to keep a remembrance of the interactions of their God in relation to them and their world... Judaism was like a snowball gaining ground as the info came in...

There is a fascinating history there for you to delve into....
The slow morphing of the Judaic Pantheon has very interesting tidbits for your edification... an understanding of the way the early Jews saw their God(s) is rather enlightening, and helps to understand their deity on a fundamental level...
El and the boys were some interesting characters....