Ben Masada said:
Hence the text in Deuteronomy 30:11-14
insofar as this relates to ezra, it relates to the authority for the validity of human interpretation, what you suggest is meant by jeremiah 31:34.
given the evidence that the prophetic system was over with the New Covenant, any one, from then on, with the claim of prophecy or of being a prophet becomes tantamount to being a false prophet.
well, not exactly. the return of prophecy is certainly anticipated and, despite the disappearance of the *nebu'ah* level of prophecy, the *bath qol* level persists into Talmudic times and the *rua
h ha-qodesh* level persists to today, if the sages and particularly the mequbalim are to be believed. according to some opinions, including abulafia, for example, the "guide" is a guide to attaining prophetic inspiration.
It means that a Jewish person is justified to deny acknowledgment of any prophetic claim within the perimeters of Judaism.
unless the relevant qualifications under the rambam system are attained.
However, we do not discard the claim of prophets by other cultures or religions, as long as no connections with Judaism is claimed.
it really depends on what is meant. i find it very difficult to believe that G!D Has never Spoken to anyone else, anywhere, at any time, nor is this a principle of Torah - we certainly agree that there have been non-jewish prophets. i think it would be more correct to say that a non-jewish prophet would find it hard to be acknowledged by jews as a prophet to the jews - certainly muhammad didn't manage it!
showme said:
if God has given you a new Spirit according to Ez 11:19, what kind of Spirit is that? What kind of Spirit does a prophet have, and what kind of Spirit is Ez 11:19 speaking of?
ezekiel is, i believe, speaking of the change in the jewish people that occurred during the exile in babylon, when he received his Revelation; they got exiled to babylon because they forsook the Torah and behaved poorly; the "new spirit" just means that we started actually listening to G!D for a change and keeping the Torah, hence we were able to return and build the 2nd Temple. this is what i think thomas has also explained.
And if Jer 31:34 is fulfilled, are you saying that God has forgiven the iniquities of the House of Israel and the House of Judah?
G!D had Forgiven the behaviour of the jews during the time of the northern and southern kingdoms, during the first Temple period; the new "dispensation", as it were, refers to the 2nd jewish commonwealth, which was then destroyed, as the sages have it, due to "causeless hatred".
If so, why did the Inquisition still have the power to exile, and exterminate jews? How come Hitler was so powerful in killing jews if their iniquities had been forgiven? Personally, I think your insight isn't matching history.
hence the book of job and the episode in BT menahoth when G!D shows moses what happened to the great teacher r. aqiba, who really didn't deserve what the romans did to him. we really
don't have an answer for this, it just seems to be built into the fabric of the universe.
as i have explained elsewhere, this means observing the Torah and, therefore, acting correctly and morally.
This historically can be seen in the Israeli war of 1967.
you know, people like you who interpret biblical prophecy through middle-eastern politics are extraordinarily dangerous and extraordinarily misguided. that includes the jews that are stupid enough to try and ride that particular tiger. G!D Forbid that you are right; i don't fancy that one bit.
BrotherMichaelSky said:
Could it be possible, do you think, that their might have been a genetic meaning to being "chosen" by the Israelite's God?
only insofar as it is linked to a specific family of people with a consequential shared genetic heritage, but i think this is a red herring.
I have found specific reason in my spiritual exercises to believe in the benefit of Ritual Purity. ( not exactly as I understand Jewish practice today - but historically...)
well, there is plenty of reason for you to have found that, but it does have more to do with the sacrificial cultus as a mystical system, which you probably don't have access to.
Also, I have found a direct correlation to experiences during my spiritual exercises, with descriptions in Judaic Literature.
again, not particularly surprising. which literature do you mean, though?
this genetic component I am referring to would be a predisposition to psychic ability
oh, i see. well, i don't think we would agree with that, as some of our greatest sages are descended from converts, for instance.
Reinforced by the practice of marrying other Jews ( with the same genetic predisposition... )This predispostion developed because of their UNIQUE habit of focusing on their God and "watching" over extended periods of time.... thousands of years....
i see what you mean, but this doesn't actually have to rely on some sort of genetic predisposition. there could be a darwinian explanation, in that predisposition for psychic ability (which i don't think it is, by the way) has become a characteristic that is being selectively evolved rather like the tail of the bird of paradise and, indeed, the widdly guitar solo. i have noticed that it becomes progressively harder to impress people over time and this goes for one's textual and spiritual skills as well, as sexual display behaviours as it were - look at the yeshiva world; the better you are at Talmud, the more likely you are to be considered a good catch as a husband/son-in-law, hence those "tails" grow ever longer and more elaborate.
i just wouldn't use such a reductive term as "psychic".
Now, I have these experiences viewing these "Supercharged" Jewish Prophets, engaged in behaviors which can only be described as Full On Psychics - Healing folks, seeing the future with no doubts, turning sticks into snakes for crying out loud......
well, back in the day, there were "schools for prophecy", rather like esoteric martial arts schools in the east.
and then I find stuff like the Zohar....
then I buy Louis Ginzberg's collection of the Mishnah, and read some stories that just make me suspicious as hell......
eh? be specific. what point are you making here?
I ask you: why is this picture so detestable to Jews?
i'm not sure what you mean. if you're talking about the risks of prophecy and distrust of the mystical experience, i can give you one name that is a reason all on its own: shabbetai tsvi.
I believe that the Christ's visit gave that benefit equally from that point on... and the Jews had turned to weeding that predisposition out...
er...no, i don't think so. even if there was evidence that jesus was a prophet (other than what christians believe) the "predisposition", as you call it, has become an elite path since the time of the 2nd Temple; whenever it has become a mass movement, it has always gone horribly, horribly wrong for us.
Why, specifically, do i get more than the average "edging away" from me by Jews? almost as if I am suggesting something damning...
because we don't think it's something intrinsic, but rather something that one learns to do; plus, we are aware of the history of this skillset and, as i say, how it can lead to things going horribly, horribly wrong. just ask the donmeh, or the frankists, or, frankly, chabad!
But what is the UNIQUE character of Jewish belief?
perhaps it is the particularism of it; we were chosen for this mission, but not because we are so much better than anyone else; the mission is important to the whole of humanity, but we're not entirely clear why - only that it does NOT involve converting everyone! i suppose that it is simply this: it is our mission (and only ours) to be truly ourselves as jews; nobody else can do this, nor should we try and co-opt others. we are doing something on behalf of everyone, but we are not liable to receive any appreciation for it from anyone else than G!D. we are not pawns in anyone else's game, nor vice-versa. we are simply fulfilling what we were chosen to do and it will not be understood until it is understood in hindsight, may this be speedily in our time.
b'shalom
bananabrain
