radarmark
Quaker-in-the-Making
Yes, but some (for some selfish reason) just want a mini-me and can afford it. Have peace, my friend.
seattlegal
Mercuræn Buddhist
[sarcasm] Oh, don't you mean life is sacred from conception to birth, then it is fair game?
[/sarcasm]Yeesh, will you guys stay the heck out of my uterus? I'm the one who has to undergo torture and risk my life in order to bring a new life into this world.
Linky please!
{And no, you can't help yourself to my ova for research, either!}
radarmark
Quaker-in-the-Making
I've seen that. Had a neighbor, with seven kids, used to pile the whole fam damly into the car...none of them wearing seatbelts...of course the car had "right to life" bumper stickers... I think if they had any more a couple would be riding on the roof. (note: after they left we had the police come by asking questions as he was linked somehow to a clinic bomber)[sarcasm] Oh, don't you mean life is sacred from conception to birth, then it is fair game?
No worries, what happens in the OFC stays in the OFC
radarmark
Quaker-in-the-Making
Saw that same family (or Kentucky cousins to them) in a pick up (kids in the back) after a wreck. Not good.
Hi Mr R —
The 'right' is something ascribed by culture, not by nature, and it seems to me mother nature doesn't ascribe 'rights' to anyone — everyone has a right to three score years and ten, but mother nature bumps us off by the cartload along the road, people had a 'right' to a holiday by the seaside, but that didn't stop the tsunami ...
What people mean by 'rights' is 'I want', that because we can, we must ... and I disagree. In the AI issue the 'rights' of the mother far outweigh the rights of the unborn, or the moral justification of the process. What are the rights of the fertilised embryos in storage?
(Let alone the campaigns to dissuade people of those very same 'rights' as a means of population control in the 3rd world?)
I spoke to a scientist who said the 'man-x/woman-y' thing was true, but there's more to it than that. She told me there were other factors in procreational compatibility, and 'natural childbirth' is by no means a given.
If I were to argue with the Church, I would say too often and too definitively it makes 'rules' where matters of moral determination should be left to the individual conscience — the birth control debate highlights that —
But the contrary argument is that moral issues are lagging a long way behind, and the 'it's just a clump of cells' is not a sufficient argument.
God bless,
Thomas
God bless
Thomas
I'm honestly not so sure. As Wil pointed out, there are now tens of thousands of 'viable' pro to-people in cryogenic storage and no-one has any idea way to do with them.
The 'right' is something ascribed by culture, not by nature, and it seems to me mother nature doesn't ascribe 'rights' to anyone — everyone has a right to three score years and ten, but mother nature bumps us off by the cartload along the road, people had a 'right' to a holiday by the seaside, but that didn't stop the tsunami ...
What people mean by 'rights' is 'I want', that because we can, we must ... and I disagree. In the AI issue the 'rights' of the mother far outweigh the rights of the unborn, or the moral justification of the process. What are the rights of the fertilised embryos in storage?
(Let alone the campaigns to dissuade people of those very same 'rights' as a means of population control in the 3rd world?)
I spoke to a scientist who said the 'man-x/woman-y' thing was true, but there's more to it than that. She told me there were other factors in procreational compatibility, and 'natural childbirth' is by no means a given.
If I were to argue with the Church, I would say too often and too definitively it makes 'rules' where matters of moral determination should be left to the individual conscience — the birth control debate highlights that —
But the contrary argument is that moral issues are lagging a long way behind, and the 'it's just a clump of cells' is not a sufficient argument.
God bless,
Thomas
God bless
Thomas
bananabrain
awkward squadnik
well, look at the patriarchs, why don't you? it was perfectly possible to be a moral human being and, indeed, a jew before sinai, whether you think this was Revelation or moral intuition. we have a strong tradition which points to moral intuition as the initial cause of abraham being Chosen by G!D for his descendants' mission. the Torah was needed because of *scale* problems; it wasn't just one family any more, but 600,000 people in twelve tribes plus the "mixed multitude"; you couldn't just run this through tribal structures any more, it needed a shared code of behaviour and morality.wil said:
i take extreme exception to this comment. the portrayal of the sanhedrin in the gospels is propaganda and slander, pure and simple, for those who cannot be bothered to take the trouble to investigate and understand the extensive contemporary documentation of procedure, jurisprudence and case history. as for the "among the wicked" - is that us jews you're talking about, taijasi? charming.taijasi said:
nor did the sages, which is why that isn't what actually happened, nor was it the intent of the biblical text, despite you divorcing it from its moral and procedural context.Amergin said:
that's not what the verse means. hosea is not "urging" anything; he is warning of the consequences of the immoral behaviour of the northern kingdom and how G!D will not Protect people who behave so evilly from the terrible atrocities that the assyrians will inflict upon them. you harm your argument if you have to misrepresent the context to make your point.
so, then, you're [again] a) assuming that all the bad stuff in joshua and judges is literally true and accurate, in spite of the fact that you do not in other bits of the Tanakh b) adding stuff in ("undefended"? where the arse do you get that from?) and c) applying the norms of human rights law to bronze age tribal warfare? quite apart from the entirely unwarranted jews=nazis comparison ("storm troopers", indeed) which is typical of this sort of student-politics screeching moral relativism and thomas is right to call you on such a bankrupt argument. dude, not even the bible gives the israelites a free ride for this stuff. G!D Is pretty Disappointed at their lack of moral compass throughout the exodus - destruction of the first Temple period; remember the last sentence in "judges" - "at that time, there was no king in israel and everyone did what was right in their own eyes".
b'shalom
bananabrain
Amergin
Well-Known Member
,
I agree with you. In fact, the history of Christianity is one of 1700 years of bloody religious wars (against Pagans, infidels, and other Christians.) Christianity fostered savage treatment of women (witch trials or killing women who spoke up for what was right.) Christianity and its Inquisition, caused the torture and deaths of hundreds of thousands of people who questioned daffy dogma, sought the truth, investigated the true universe, physics, chemistry, biology (evolution), human medical therapy, and brain generated cognition.
Christianity and Islam are the two most evil ideas ever to afflict humanity. The feeble good and charity of Christianity is far outweighed by the cruelty, suffering, millions of deaths in wars and genocides, psychological harm of fear (of a Killer God.)
The Anti-Semite madman, Martin Luther, making sins not count and catholic confession dismissing sin contribute to the acts of pure evil I mentioned above. Idolatry displaced morality in 393 CE.
Amergin
Amergin
Well-Known Member
Damn, I thought Seattle was one of the smarter cities in the troglodyte USA. Are you sure you are not from Alabama or Texas?
We Scottish scientists pose no threat to your genital tract. Any vital stem cell research is not done against the will or consent of a donor.
Those who want key to your uterus, ovaries, tubes, cervix, and ovulation are called Republicans. They are an American Neo-Fascist Party who claim authority over your reproduction, ovulation, pregnancy, and birth. But these amoral extremists do not want to help your babies or children, in addition to taking education back to the Middle Ages. Your country is sliding rapidly into the Third World of squalor, ignorance, superstition, shortened life-spans, child abuse, and thought control.
Canadians are already considering a 4,000 mile fence and mine field to block the emigration of all Americans with IQ's over 85.
My advice: Run Atheists run, Mitt Torquemada is coming after you.
Amergin