How did Jesus get his Y chromosome?

Aittv said:
It is possible with God.
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Jesus had prehumen identity. He was a male in his prehumen identity and was born a male. When heavenly being incarnates into the human egg it condenses and descends into the egg is sealed. The human body is anatomically emotionally and intellectually the sex it is prior to that incarnation. I however believe that no all incarnations would involve only an egg but rather a sperm and egg but even then the sex of the prehumen beings is going to be the same for its human body. The prehumen selfs sex cannot be changed by an incarnation so if its a male angelic being that incarnates into the human body it will always be a male and if female will always be a female. This is a fact that cannot be changed.
 
Amergin said:
Jesus never said, clearly and unequivocally, "I am God." He never said, "I am one of three persons making up God."

Jesus did say, addressing Mary Magdalene, (John 20:17) "...but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father; and to my GOD, and your GOD." In prayer to God, that is, the Father, Jesus said, “YOU, the only true GOD.” (John 17:3). He clearly states his (Jesus') relation to God was the same as that of Mary of Magdala. He and Mary of Magdala considered God to be both my (our) God and my (our) Father. We normally don't refer to Mary as the Daughter of God. God is everyone's Father. But Jesus himself, Mary Magdala (the apostle Jesus loved) and the brethren all considered “God” as their God.

"My God, My God, why hast THOU forsaken ME.?" This also shows a difference between Jesus and GOD. This shows that Jesus addressed GOD as other than himself. It also gives a valuable hint that Jesus didn't expect this outcome (being nailed on a cross) and felt forsaken. So he didn't know and was not omniscient, and not God. “My God,” was not from someone who considered himself to be God. And if Jesus were God, then by whom was he deserted? Himself? That would not make sense. Jesus also said: “Father, into your hands I entrust my spirit.” (Luke 23:46) If Jesus were God, for what reason should he entrust his spirit to the Father?


In 2 Corinthians 1:3 the apostle Paul confirms this relationship: “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.” Since Jesus had a God, his Father, he could not at the same time be that God. “For us there is one God, the Father . . . and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ.” (1 Corinthians 8:6, JB) The apostle shows the distinction when he mentions “the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of the elect angels.” (1 Timothy 5:21, RS Common Bible).

Jesus further showed that he was a separate entity denying being good? “No one is good but God alone.” (Mark 10:18, JB) So Jesus was distinguishing from God by saying: “Why do you call one is as good as God is, not even Jesus himself”. God is good in a way that separates him from Jesus.

“The Son cannot do anything at his own pleasure, he can only do what he sees his Father doing.” (John 5:19, The Holy Bible, by Monsignor R. A. Knox) “I have come down from heaven to do, not my will, but the will of him that sent me.” (John 6:38) “What I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me.” (John 7:16) Is not the sender superior to the one sent? The followers of Jesus prayed to God about “thy holy servant Jesus, whom thou didst anoint, . . . and signs and wonders are performed through the name of thy holy servant Jesus.”—Acts 4:23, 27, 30, RS, Catholic edition. The Disciples themselves believed that Jesus was an important person, possibly more than human but not God. (Basis for Arian Christianity.)

Jesus indicated his Father’s superiority when he said: “Jehovah’s spirit is upon me, because he anointed me to declare good news to the poor.” (Luke 4:18). God is plainly the superior, for he anointed Jesus, giving him authority that he did not previously have.

“As for seats at my right hand and my left, these are not mine to grant; they belong to those to whom they have been allotted by my Father,” that is, God. (Matthew 20:23, JB) Had Jesus been Almighty God, those positions would have been his to give. But Jesus could not give them, for they were God’s to give, and Jesus was not God.

“Father, if you wish, remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, let, not my will, but yours take place.” (Luke 22:42) To whom was he praying? To a part of himself? No, he was praying to someone entirely separate, his Father, God, whose will was superior and could be different from his own, the only One able to “remove this cup.”

“God [who] resurrected [Jesus] by loosing the pangs of death.” (Acts 2:24) The superior, God Almighty, raised the lesser, his servant Jesus, from the dead. Jesus Had Limited Knowledge. He stated: “But of that day or that hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Mark 13:32, RS, Catholic edition).

In Hebrews 5:8 Jesus “learned obedience from the things he suffered.” Can we imagine that God had to learn anything? No, but Jesus did, for he did not know everything that God knew. And he had to learn something that God never needs to learn—obedience. God never has to obey anyone.

Jesus did not make comments or indicate that he knew Leprosy was caused by a bacterium. He blamed it on sin. He could have at least recommended sanitary procedures like bathing, washing hands after contact that we do today, and there is very little Leprosy in Donegal. He did not know the common causes of blindness (glaucoma, diabetic retinopathy, macular degeneration, cataracts, trachoma virus, Loa Loa, Sarcoidosis, Optic Neuritis, Optic nerve drusen, Optic nerve gliomas, strokes, alcoholic optic degeneration, and Ischemic Optic Neuropathy. There are more. He could have helped Sarcoid ophthalmopathy and Optic Neuritis with some simple anti-inflammatory herbal agents do work to some extent.

But Jesus either chose to not treat them, and teach them some self-treatment. Sanitation could stop the spread of Trachoma and Loa Loa. Dietary adjustment could have lessened the severity of all of the diabetic complications. I realise that he could do nothing for Optic Tumours or Macular Degeneration. He could have cautioned against alcohol (many neurological complications) but HE MADE WINE.

He thought demons caused epilepsy and mental illness. Lastly, Satan took Jesus to a high mountain to view all of the nations of the Earth. He and/or Jesus thought the Earth was flat. One cannot see nations on the opposite side of a spherical earth. Jesus and Satan could not see Japan, Hawaii, the Maori Kingdom of New Zealand, Champa, Vietnam, Cambodia, the Mexican, or the Andean Empires. If he supposedly created everything would not he know that the Earth was a sphere? As a Demon who supposedly saw Creation, and tormented people all over the world, he should have known the Earth to be spherical. Jesus didn’t question his premise that he could see all of the Nations from one mountain top. So Jesus and Satan both flunked Geometry.


All that we read in the New Testament suggests a fully human Jesus. If we are open minded comprehending what is written, cannot help but assume that God was superior to Jesus. And that Jesus was at best a created secondary deity or perhaps just a man.


The gospels were written in the First Century before the Romans had deified Jesus. The earliest gospel was written about 70 A.D. and John may have been written by 120 AD. At this time the exact status of Jesus was hotly debated. The gospels seem to be somewhere theologically between Ebionites and Nazarites with hint of evolving Arianism that is clearly present in Paul’s letters. Thus Arianism was very early before Bishop Arius preached it in 319 AD. This was the initial deification of Jesus but as a created and subordinate god obedient to the High God (JHWH).

Verses used to support the deification of Jesus are all very vague and ambiguous, such as "I am" but no definitive statement of divinity. As a matter of fact, “I am” Amergin. That vague “I am” comment is far outnumbered by the many statements indicating that he was not God, was not equal to the Father, but subordinate, and “sent” by the God.
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A preexistant divine being is identified by miracles involving the body beginning at conception. These are literal miracle events. Jesus was identified at conception and birth as being a preexistant divine being. Some churches believe him to be Michael the archangel. If Jesus were just a man then his conception and birth would have been normal events with no miracles involved. The holy spirit overshadowed mary at his conception and th eprehuman jesus condensed and descended into the human egg. When this happens there is a blocking of the memory of the former prehumen existence. The descension of the prehumen deity into the egg can be seen literally as a miracle event as light that desends into the egg. This occurred when the holy spirit overshadowed mary.
 
Amergin said:
This is irrational. Jesus supposedly (unproven) calling everyone gods. David was a son of God, and many others so named. Jesus used the term sons of god to mean all people who follow the God of Moses. This has been twisted into a false claim of deity by Paganised Christians. There is ample gospel quotes that contradict the deification of Jesus long after his death.

Amergin
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You are on an interesting path here. Something that might help clarify a bit, is that Roman Emperors themselves going back at least to Augustus called themselves "Son of G-d" in their political propaganda, complete with all the trappings. It was Constantine that broke with that tradition, and the timing suggests he put it off on "Jesus" in a bid for political stability throughout the Empire. Hence, you end up with a morphodite Judeo/Pagan religion called Christianity. To clarify, Constantine lived his life and conducted his business as an unrepentant Pagan, he simply had little to no interest in being deified (which was his right by long-standing tradition at that point).

The mechanics of all of this is considerably more complex. The Arian controversy swirled around the deification of Jesus, and while Athanasius won out officially, the Arians were a significant political force for another hundred years or so. Constantine's deathbed conversion was at the hand of an Arian priest. That priest is well known and oft quoted by even Catholics around here (when advantageous, and ignored when not), his name is Eusebius.
 
donnann said:
The prehumen selfs sex cannot be changed by an incarnation so if its a male angelic being that incarnates into the human body it will always be a male and if female will always be a female. This is a fact that cannot be changed.
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If this is a "fact," surely it can be demonstrated? Surely it can be proven or disproven? Care to point to examples?

At best this is conjecture, not "fact."

If the Bible is to be believed (and in this case I am inclined to agree), there are no males or females in heaven. All angels are neuter. But alas, I know this is only my conjecture, as I cannot prove nor disprove this.
 
wil said:
One will never know at all....unless there is life after death, and one is able to remember what the argument was about...

that is the key....we'll have all these people swearing that they have the one and only answer to all that is...

and ALL of them are full of crap, they may have their belief, what they've been told, the pablum they repeat....

or they may have had some psychotic experience from a nutrition defiecency, sleep deprivation, prolonged meditation, bad tuna fish or some good acid....and have been told by G!d, they saw the light...or whatever...

but even they....can't agree....as it seems G!d not only writes everything different in every book, he also tells folks different things in every vision...

Life....it is to be lived!! Contemplation is great, arrogance and ego and my religion is better than your religion.....a huge waste of time....

(oh and you can always tell when they've run out of arguments when it ends with G!d said/wrote it...or the classic...."but what if you are wrong?")
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Love it, Wil!
 
juantoo3 said:
You are on an interesting path here. Something that might help clarify a bit, is that Roman Emperors themselves going back at least to Augustus called themselves "Son of G-d" in their political propaganda, complete with all the trappings. It was Constantine that broke with that tradition, and the timing suggests he put it off on "Jesus" in a bid for political stability throughout the Empire. Hence, you end up with a morphodite Judeo/Pagan religion called Christianity. To clarify, Constantine lived his life and conducted his business as an unrepentant Pagan, he simply had little to no interest in being deified (which was his right by long-standing tradition at that point).

The mechanics of all of this is considerably more complex.
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Back to this for a moment...It has been suggested that Jesus calling himself the Son of G-d (using essentially the same nomenclature that the Emperor used) may have played a significant role in his coming to the attention of authorities and ultimately being executed. It was viewed by the Romans as an affront and challenge to the throne.

The whole trial before crucifixion story in the Gospels is rife with unorthodox (pardon the pun) legal wrangling. A trial at night, the rush to execute before the High Holy Day (why not wait until all was over?), etc. Not to mention why a specifically Roman method of execution when the Jews had their own approved form used often enough for "blasphemous" convicts. The story goes to lengths to exonerate the Roman authorities, but clearly they are involved in the matter, and a radical Jewish healer/teacher ends up executed in a Roman manner as essentially a seditious rebel against the Empire. Details might be argued, but after the dust settles this is where we end up...

300 years later this same seditious rebel is elevated to the rank of "Son of G-d" in the Imperial sense. There is plenty in between, but prior to that time Jesus was not recognized by the presiding political authority as anything but a condemned criminal.
 
God can do all things.
If He can create man out of nothing, what is the problem of creating a Y chromosome for Jesus?
 
chongjasmine said:
God can do all things.
If He can create man out of nothing, what is the problem of creating a Y chromosome for Jesus?
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I agree with you that God can do all and every thing but one; the thing you wish He did or should have done. Yes, He would have no problem creating a Y chromosome for Jesus but He didn't do it just because Paul wish He had done.

If you ask me, I do believe that the Y chromosome of Jesus came from Joseph who was married to Mary his mother but, because the NT denies that Joseph was Jesus' biological father, the season was open for Pantera.

According to Josephus in his book "Wars of the Jews" rapes of young Jewish ladies in Israel in the First Century was catastrophic. Hence the birth of thousands of Jewish babies which became known as "sons of God" a decision taken by the Jewish authorities to prevent or minimize ostracism of that generation in Israel.
 
wil said:
Many religious zealots have no "Why?" Chromosone.... or a "How?" or a "Really?"

(just finished watching the Bill Nye debate)
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Not only religious zealots but also famous people including kings. Alexander the Great of Macedon for instance, was claimed to be a demigod which is the son of a god with an earthly woman. Zeus, his mother would claim, had fathered him.
 
The Adept said:
Pandera, Archer cohort standard-bearer in the Roman Legion, donated the Y chromosome for Jesus, The Son of Man (ie Pandera also known as Pantera; both mean 'Panther'.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiberius_Iulius_Abdes_Pantera
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Well, I would like to blame Christians themselves for the store of Pantera due to the fact that they deny Jesus that his biological father was Joseph but, the problem is that Pantera could be true as the one who provided Mary with the "Y" chromosome for two reasons: The first is that, according to Josephus there were thousands of children in Israel at that time being born out of rapes of young Jewish ladies by Roman soldiers. And second, John 8:41 does suggest that Jesus had been born out of fornication which is akin to a rape.
 
Shibolet said:
Well, I would like to blame Christians themselves for the store of Pantera due to the fact that they deny Jesus that his biological father was Joseph but, the problem is that Pantera could be true as the one who provided Mary with the "Y" chromosome for two reasons: The first is that, according to Josephus there were thousands of children in Israel at that time being born out of rapes of young Jewish ladies by Roman soldiers. And second, John 8:41 does suggest that Jesus had been born out of fornication which is akin to a rape.
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To be fair to Pantera, in 4 BC around Sephoris and Nazareth village, the cult of Dionysus was active. They needed 14 virgins to liberate every spring festival and considered it to be...liberation to womanhood.
Baby gifted to some of the young women by God (ie Dionysus).
As a Son of God.

So it was an accepted religious rite of passage. But the Jewish fathers revolted and were chased to Jerusalem and crucified along the road.
 
wil said:
Christians don't deny Joseph was the father....

according to the book...Joseph does.
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Joseph never denied to be the father of Jesus. The Christians who wrote the gospels did 50+ years after Jesus had been gone and from hear-say. By the way, the Hellenist who wrote the gospel of John even tried to explain that Joseph was not Jesus' father because Jesus had been born out of fornication if you read John 8:41. One is not born out of fornication through his father and mother. This only confirms Josephus' book "War of the Jews" that the rape of young Jewish ladies by Roman soldiers during the First Century was catastrophic as thousands of Jewish bastards had been born in Israel.
 
The Adept said:
To be fair to Pantera, in 4 BC around Sephoris and Nazareth village, the cult of Dionysus was active. They needed 14 virgins to liberate every spring festival and considered it to be...liberation to womanhood.
Baby gifted to some of the young women by God (ie Dionysus).
As a Son of God.

So it was an accepted religious rite of passage. But the Jewish fathers revolted and were chased to Jerusalem and crucified along the road.
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Though I wish I didn't have to but, I agree with you as indeed many of the Jewish leaders, especially Pharisees were crucified all the way from Galilee soon after the Pharisaic revolt in 4 BCE and until they arrived in Jerusalem.
 
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