I do not believe anyone on this forum is a fool. It is rude not to answer a question on things you post.
I do not believe anyone on this forum is a fool. It is rude not to answer a question on things you post.
radarmark
Quaker-in-the-Making
donnann, if RabbiO is orthodox, he cannot cook or use a telephone from dusk Friday (when Shabbat begins) until dusk Saturday when it ends--let alone use a computer or pad. For someone who seems well versed in some things, your knowledge of any religion but your own is a little on the thin side.
I worked at a jewish deli years ago. I attended a sater. Do you think that I need to know the traditions that every religion practices to know the truth contained within those religiions? I know alot more than you think I do and your comment doesnt make me any less confident on that point.
Trying to make me look stupid by using hebrew instead of english and pointing out that I do not know all of the traditions in every single religion is a form of trying to bully me. I do not appreciate that and I would not do that to you.
radarmark
Quaker-in-the-Making
I was referring to your "It is rude not to answer a question on things you post" comment when RabbiO said he would reply after Shabbat.
Oh ok then I apologize.
A Cup Of Tea
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 3,313
- Reaction score
- 579
- Points
- 108
Working at a jewish deli is irrelevant, it doesn't prove that you know anything about the current subject. Hopefully you did, but it's not a certificate.
Yes, I think a person needs to UNDERSTAND the practices of a religion to understand the religion. You are satisfied in knowing facts about religion but to me they are simply pieces of a puzzle floating around. To use them correctly you need to understand the whole.
We don't know anything about what you know or don't know until you tell us. And it's not bullying to tell you that you don't know all traditions because it's hardly possible. Most people here are still learning about their own tradition. It takes a life time.
Last time you were here you were very self-continuous about your education and your intelligence. Please be assured that most people here aren't interested in those things, so don't defend yourself, just defend your arguments.
Chill out a bit, it's just the internet.
Good point. I have been defending my arguments and points and I do know a fair amount of the jewish celebrations and traditions but not all of them. I was raised mostly catholic.
radarmark
Quaker-in-the-Making
One must always try to see things in a Verstehen lens (interpretive). First, one must realize that languages to not directly translate. Second, watching a practice is not the same as participating. Third, mere participation does not mean one experiences the same thing as the native practitioner.
It means moving from reading and web browsing to actual practicing within the nexus and mind set of the subject.
It means moving from reading and web browsing to actual practicing within the nexus and mind set of the subject.
Are you saying that one must literally practice a religion to have knowledge of the theology and beliefs? What do you mean by do not directly translate? If you are in communion doesnt that mean everyone has the same experience? Isnt that the purpose of church? Please explain each point that you are making.
A Cup Of Tea
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 3,313
- Reaction score
- 579
- Points
- 108
My thoughts are, first, being bilingual I understand how language doesn't match up and meaning easily get lost without understanding both languages and cultures on a deep enough level. Secondly, to see something is not the same as feeling it, and feeling the responsibility and impact of it. Thirdly, different backgrounds experience things differently. people react do different things and associate to different things and thus feel and understand different things.
To me knowledge and understanding are as different and connected as intelligence and wisdom. Is it so for you?
To me knowledge and understanding are as different and connected as intelligence and wisdom. Is it so for you?
I believe communication and understanding leads to enlightenment and is progression. We live in a world these days with the internet and we have access to texts, translations from other languages to english and english to other languages. I could clearly learn to speak and read hebrew , for example, because I have those tools right in front of me. I believe when it comes to feeling things that we all feel them. For example the soul essence is not one with the body but the body is the senses part and we can feel that on this level. If the soul essence , say love for example, were to flood into your body you would recognize it because you do experience it on the level of the body. I believe as you do that that intelligence and wisdom is connected to knowledge and understanding but I also believe that everyone is intelligent in one way or another.
radarmark
Quaker-in-the-Making
Okay... dao (or tao) is a word in Chinese that does not translate directly. Usually translate "path" it is so much more (like "principle" and "speak"). There is no words for time in Hopi (an Arizona Indian Nation). Their closest term is "pahana tewa" (white sun or white man's sun). Eheyeh Asher Eheyeh in Hebrew is literally "I am that I am".
And those are just linguistic examples. Verstehen literally means that one must become part of the culture in order to understand it. For instance, the monied and educated classes left Russia soon after the revolution. Then through Soviet atrocities and pressure anyone who spoke or thought like them were forced into exile or killed or turned inwards. The result, what I heard as a linguist would make a sailor blush. Why? All of the positive use of language (throughout most of the society) had shriveled up and only really filthy language remained to express negative opinions (even commercial pilots and NCOs speaking to officers).
Or during the Inquisition many Iberian Jews converted... but their descendents in Majorca still live on "the street of Jews" and are called such even though they leave vats of pig fat outside their doors to dip their fingers into it and lick them clean to prove they are not Jewish.
Eastern Orthodox (and other Christian sub-groups left outside the mainstream... like Armenians) have different rituals and different understandings of some theological issues (they and most Catholics see Revelation as occluded history not prophecy). It is literally a history of the Church in Asia Minor during the Roman occupation, the meaning is hidden so that the Romans would not catch on.
Until recently Inuit peoples would ask if you wanted to "laugh" with their wives... meant a little more than laugh. When I was in Laos there was this village on the Mekong whose bridge kept flooding out every monsoon season. USAID gave them an estimate of how much it would cost to put in a proper, concrete bridge. They did not have that kind of money. So the headman, the chief of police and the Bonz all had unmarried sons. Of course they were the big catches... the three of them offered them up in marriage to any girl willing to work in Vientiane at a house of ill-repute. Three (probably the prettiest in the village) went to work for Madam Lulu, who kept their earnings (and probably chipped in some of her share, she was a big hearted lady). Instead of taking two years, the girls came back in a little under one, had a huge wedding for all three couples, the bridge was built, and the couples lived pretty much happily ever after (I write to one of their children).
See, you cannot understand others by simply staying in your skin. That is what "walk a mile in my moccasins" means. That is what Verstehen means.
Members of the Sanatana Dharma (Hindus) vary from atheists to monotheists (yep, only one G!d), to polytheists to panentheists to monists to henotheists. Praying to Krishna was just like praying to Allah or to the One G!d for Gandhiji (whose Mother was a pranami vaishnava, a liberal monotheistic groups--kinda the Quakers or Ahmadiyyas of Hinduism).
One must try to understand the language, the culture, and belief system of another. Kind of like take the plank out of your own eye before before pointing out the mote in another's (one of my personality traits I always ask my Higher P!wer to rid me of).
And those are just linguistic examples. Verstehen literally means that one must become part of the culture in order to understand it. For instance, the monied and educated classes left Russia soon after the revolution. Then through Soviet atrocities and pressure anyone who spoke or thought like them were forced into exile or killed or turned inwards. The result, what I heard as a linguist would make a sailor blush. Why? All of the positive use of language (throughout most of the society) had shriveled up and only really filthy language remained to express negative opinions (even commercial pilots and NCOs speaking to officers).
Or during the Inquisition many Iberian Jews converted... but their descendents in Majorca still live on "the street of Jews" and are called such even though they leave vats of pig fat outside their doors to dip their fingers into it and lick them clean to prove they are not Jewish.
Eastern Orthodox (and other Christian sub-groups left outside the mainstream... like Armenians) have different rituals and different understandings of some theological issues (they and most Catholics see Revelation as occluded history not prophecy). It is literally a history of the Church in Asia Minor during the Roman occupation, the meaning is hidden so that the Romans would not catch on.
Until recently Inuit peoples would ask if you wanted to "laugh" with their wives... meant a little more than laugh. When I was in Laos there was this village on the Mekong whose bridge kept flooding out every monsoon season. USAID gave them an estimate of how much it would cost to put in a proper, concrete bridge. They did not have that kind of money. So the headman, the chief of police and the Bonz all had unmarried sons. Of course they were the big catches... the three of them offered them up in marriage to any girl willing to work in Vientiane at a house of ill-repute. Three (probably the prettiest in the village) went to work for Madam Lulu, who kept their earnings (and probably chipped in some of her share, she was a big hearted lady). Instead of taking two years, the girls came back in a little under one, had a huge wedding for all three couples, the bridge was built, and the couples lived pretty much happily ever after (I write to one of their children).
See, you cannot understand others by simply staying in your skin. That is what "walk a mile in my moccasins" means. That is what Verstehen means.
Members of the Sanatana Dharma (Hindus) vary from atheists to monotheists (yep, only one G!d), to polytheists to panentheists to monists to henotheists. Praying to Krishna was just like praying to Allah or to the One G!d for Gandhiji (whose Mother was a pranami vaishnava, a liberal monotheistic groups--kinda the Quakers or Ahmadiyyas of Hinduism).
One must try to understand the language, the culture, and belief system of another. Kind of like take the plank out of your own eye before before pointing out the mote in another's (one of my personality traits I always ask my Higher P!wer to rid me of).
Why would you think most catholics see revelation as history and not prophecy?
Revelation may be defined as the communication of some truth by God to a rational creature through means which are beyond the ordinary course of nature. Here is the link to define revelation , its the catholic encyclopedia. CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Revelation
A Cup Of Tea
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 3,313
- Reaction score
- 579
- Points
- 108
haha, donnann, you really know how to pick what to focus on in long texts.
EDIT: And I want to repeat that I believe that there is a difference between knowledge and understanding, do you understand what I mean by that?
EDIT: And I want to repeat that I believe that there is a difference between knowledge and understanding, do you understand what I mean by that?
thank you
radarmark
Quaker-in-the-Making
Understanding (also called intellection) is a psychological process related to an abstract or physical object, such as a person, situation, or message whereby one is able to think about it and use concepts to deal adequately with that object. Understanding is a relation between the knower and an object of understanding. Understanding implies abilities and dispositions with respect to an object of knowledge sufficient to support intelligent behavior.[1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Understanding
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Understanding#cite_note-1
Nous (British: /ˈnaʊs/;[1] US: /ˈnuːs/), sometimes equated to intellect or intelligence, is a philosophical term for the
faculty of the human mind which is described in classical philosophy as necessary for understanding what is true or real, similar in meaning to intuition. It is also often described as a form of perception which works within the mind ("the mind's eye"), rather than only through the physical senses.[2] The three commonly used philosophical terms are from Greek, νοῦς or νόος, and Latin intellectus and intelligentia respectively.
Nous - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Is this what you mean by possibilities?
Gospel of Mary
Main article: Gospel of Mary
According to the Gospel of Mary, Jesus himself articulates the essence of Nous:
"There where is the nous, lies the treasure." Then I said to him: "Lord, when someone meets you in a Moment of Vision, is it through the soul [psuchē] that they see, or is it through the spirit [pneuma]?" The Teacher answered: "It is neither through the soul nor the spirit, but the nous between the two which sees the vision..."
—The Gospel of Mary, p. 10
Nous - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
—The Gospel of Mary, p. 10
Nous - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia