An Insult to the Ladies

[radarmark]

FBJ, pulll in your teeth. Ben, like a lot of post-Shaoh Jews does not trust Christians (we have not given the People much reason to). And it is our New Tesament, not "The Bible" he has problems with (so do a lot of we Christians).

And he is not the only person in the world who believes Paul walked on the wild side.

 

[Ben Masada]

I believe you are wrong (see Torah, which forbids taking anoother's life or the teachings of Rabbi Kook, Baeck or Sheersohn). Homosexuality? Try Rebbis Lamm, Greenberg, Riskin, Weiss, Sacks, let alone the Coservative, Reform or Reconstructionist Rebbis. Look their views up. Judaism is not as intolerant as you make it seem.

I don't. My policy about Homosexuals is: Don't bother me, don't bother them. Only that, when I am forced against the wall for an opinion, I point to the Scriptures. That's all. BTW, if the style is invading the Jewish People, it might end up being the reason for the next exile from the Land of our Fathers.

Ben

 

[Ben Masada]

this is the source of all our disagreements, i would suggest. as i have told you any number of times, the Torah ITSELF sets up the tradition as high as the "scriptures" - look in deuteronomy 30. your approach is not only ahistorical but frankly heretical - you are, effectively, a karaite, as i have also said before. i suppose we have the way they teach "bible" at israeli schools and the utter alienation of hilonim from datiim and vice-versa to thank for this. also, what radarmark said. it is you that is not thinking.

bananabrain

Please, be specific when you quote. Deuteronomy 30 is not a verse or two but a whole chapter. When I am giving replies, I don't have all the time in the world. I am glad to take you on the Scriptures, but you must learn how to quote. Thank you.

Ben

 

[Ben Masada]

Whether you like it or not, the reference to "sons of the Most High" appears in Psalms. Brace yourself: Jesus was one such son. I am not in a very healing mood today and, in any case, am always such a piss-poor Christian that I lack sufficient faith, so, if you want to cure yourself of spiritual deafness, I suggest that the next time you sneeze, you plug your nose and blow the cotton balls out of your ears. When your ears are finally unstopped, then note that the author of St. John's Gospel has Jesus address not only your complaints but also those of your progenitors, the Pharisees and Sadducees who preceded you. And he did so not by quoting either Homer or Hesiod, as one would expect of a Hellenist, but rather by quoting Psalms. Deal with it.

Serv

I have never said that Jesus was not one of the sons of God. But the reference in Psalm 82:6,7 to the sons of the Most High was to the collective in the People of Israel. I see that, indeed, Jesus confirms Psalms
in John 10:34,35, but still as a reference to the People and not to an individual. Individually, a Jew cannot be "the son of God" in the Christian context of the NT, but the People yes. Therefore, Jesus was one of the sons of God, but not "the son of God."

Ben

 

[Ben Masada]

Paul was as homosexual as most of this worlds Fathers are. HE warned congregations against such sins.

In others, but not in himself. Only he could serve two masters: God's Law in his mind and the law of sin in his flesh. Read Romans 7:25. Do you wanna an evidence that no one else could live like him? Read I Cor. 5:5. When he was told that a Christian was committing incest with his stepmother, he passed judgment on him and condemned him to death.

And he only recommended not being married to women so one could devout their time to God not other men. Which most of us men know is sinful.

According to Judaism, one is more in tune with God as a married man than living the life of a bachelor. It is even a commandment to be married.

Ben Masada CLEARLY IS AGAINST CHRISTIANS CHRISTIANITY AND THE BIBLE.

I don't think there is someone here more pro-Bible than I am. Now, against Christianity... well, if you consider the millions of Jews Christianity has murdered throughout our History, you might think twice about blaming me.

HE SEEMS TO BE JEWISH PERSON WITH A CHIP ON HIS SOLDER.,. AND HE IS GONNA HAVE A HECK OF A TIME WITH THIS LUTHERAN WHO BELONGS TO A GERMAN LUTHERAN SYNOD.

Well, when the process of the Reformation was well in advance and all seemed to be in its place, a German prince asked Martin Luther: "And for the Jews, what should we do?" Luther answered and said: "Kill the dogs." That's from the book "The Reformation of Luther." The Jews were falling from the fryer into the fire.

I HEARD IT ALL ALL THE INSULTS ALL THE ACCUSING OF BEING ANTI SEMETIC THE WHOLE 9 YARDS .I GREW UP IN THE LARGEST JEWISH COMMUNITY IN THE WORLD AND HAD MANY FRIENDS AND ALSO ENEMYS THAT WERE JEWISH.

Now, I hope you will have a friend with me.

Ben

 

[Ben Masada]

BEN ISARAEL been a friend of the united states for over 60 years.

us presidents come us presidents go .. but most americans remember who their friends have been. its not the israel government that hates us
most of us know that . Some of us even know the talmud but we dont like that. Israel yes talmud no its not nearly as friendly to us gentiles as israel is..

Whether you like the Talmud or not, I don't even blame you, but to defend oneself, is a basic natural law that just happens to be respected by the Talmud.

Ben

 

[Ben Masada]

Ben Masada
WROTE

If someone comes to kill you, kill him first."


NOTE the above DOESNT INCLUDE A THREAT TO KILL ..

SO FAR ITS ONLY BEEN THREATS aginst israel - OF developing ATOMIC BOMBS and using them ..

So what do you want to do Ben------- drop israel atomic bomb on them --now? bomb them now with conventional weapons killem all that way right now..

i dont think you will have much sympathy for those posistions.

I believe we should do to Iran now, what we did to Iraq then. IMHO, what you suggest is that we should sit duck and wait to see what they mean. To sit duck, one dies as a duck. Don't forget that we lost six million of our People in that position. Enough is enough.

Ben

 

[bananabrain]

when I am forced against the wall for an opinion, I point to the Scriptures.

really? i use my brain. you see, that's the problem - your style of "pointing to the scriptures" is actually pretty much that of the much admired (although not by you, ironically) martin luther. this is pretty much the prima facie case for having an oral tradition in the first place, as well as the reason why people unfamiliar with this should not be allowed near a chumash.

BTW, if the style is invading the Jewish People

"invading"? all the evidence is that it's built into our species just like the other 1500 species where you can see homosexual behaviour. it's not the influence of some nefarious external group. you know who uses the exact same argument as this? the iranian regime. i suppose you think they have the right idea.

Please, be specific when you quote.

i don't need a lecture from you on this. if you had a scintilla of familiarity with normative rabbinic judaism as opposed to what you picked up in "bible class", you would know exactly what i was referring to. i have three words for you: oven. of. akhnai. look it up on this site - i've written on it many times before and it is at the heart of every disagreement we have. the rest is commentary - now go and learn.

I am glad to take you on the Scriptures, but you must learn how to quote.

this debate was settled 2,000 years ago - and you are on the wrong side of it from a jewish point of view. what next, are you going to demand that i quote the "eye for an eye" verse? did you learn how the tradition deals with that? and how about the remittance of debt - ever heard the word "prosbul"? seriously, dude, you are not on a winner here.

b'shalom

bananabrain

 

[Ben Masada]

really? i use my brain. you see, that's the problem - your style of "pointing to the scriptures" is actually pretty much that of the much admired (although not by you, ironically) martin luther. this is pretty much the prima facie case for having an oral tradition in the first place, as well as the reason why people unfamiliar with this should not be allowed near a chumash.

The word is superstition. That's what predisposes a "Jew" to quote a Christian against another Jew.

"invading"? all the evidence is that it's built into our species just like the other 1500 species where you can see homosexual behaviour. it's not the influence of some nefarious external group. you know who uses the exact same argument as this? the iranian regime. i suppose you think they have the right idea.

No, the right idea is in Ecclesiastes 7:29. "HaShem has made Mankind straight but men have had recourse to many cauculations."

i don't need a lecture from you on this. if you had a scintilla of familiarity with normative rabbinic judaism as opposed to what you picked up in "bible class", you would know exactly what i was referring to. i have three words for you: oven. of. akhnai. look it up on this site - i've written on it many times before and it is at the heart of every disagreement we have. the rest is commentary - now go and learn.

"Oven!!!" Is that what you have for me? Such a word does not fit Israeli Jews. We are of a different kind of Jews.

this debate was settled 2,000 years ago - and you are on the wrong side of it from a jewish point of view. what next, are you going to demand that i quote the "eye for an eye" verse? did you learn how the tradition deals with that? and how about the remittance of debt - ever heard the word "prosbul"? seriously, dude, you are not on a winner here.

To say of a Jew who has the intellectual ability to go for the Truth in the metaphorical realm of reality as being on the wrong side, I can see very well how much a member of the literal interpretation club you are.

Ben

 

[bananabrain]

The word is superstition. That's what predisposes a "Jew" to quote a Christian against another Jew.

it is you that is using the method of the christian in question, which ought to give you pause for thought. apparently, you would prefer that i overlook the poverty of your argument out of what, ahavat yisrael? - well, this is an argument l'shem shamayim, but you refuse to realise how such arguments are constructed.

No, the right idea is in Ecclesiastes 7:29. "HaShem has made Mankind straight but men have had recourse to many cauculations."

blimey, now you're reaching, are you really suggesting that ecclesiastes means "yashar" like that? ridiculously anachronistic.

To say of a Jew who has the intellectual ability to go for the Truth in the metaphorical realm of reality as being on the wrong side, I can see very well how much a member of the literal interpretation club you are.

your metaphors are entirely personal and the way you use them is christian and karaite, not in any normative jewish sense.

"Oven!!!" Is that what you have for me? Such a word does not fit Israeli Jews. We are of a different kind of Jews.

oh, my fecking goodness... THE OVEN OF AKHNAI, ignoramus. it's like rabbinic judaism 101. i have mentioned it before, to you, here:

http://www.interfaith.org/forum/but-really-why-was-jesus-15007-12.html#post263112

and here:

http://www.interfaith.org/forum/the-definition-of-a-miracle-14849-2.html#post258916

and here:

http://www.interfaith.org/forum/questions-13111-2.html#post233872

and here:

http://www.interfaith.org/forum/genuine-question-to-theists-part-10709-10.html#post181130

and here:

http://www.interfaith.org/forum/san-francisco-may-vote-on-13939-2.html#post245200

and here:

http://www.interfaith.org/forum/bibli-idolatry-12621-3.html#post224716

and here:

http://www.interfaith.org/forum/reform-10886-10.html#post219091

and here:

http://www.interfaith.org/forum/reformation-10925-2.html#post184682

and here:

http://www.interfaith.org/forum/rabbinic-interpretation-and-jewish-law-7708-2.html#post119252

now bugger off and learn some bloody basic gemara; i am fed up with repeating myself over and over again.

bananabrain

 

[iBrian]

We are of a different kind of Jews.

You're Jewish??

Simply that, from your postings, you seem generally unfamiliar with Jewish culture, and instead quite familiar with Protestant Christianity.

 

[radarmark]

"Oven!!!" Is that what you have for me? Such a word does not fit Israeli Jews. We are of a different kind of Jews -- Ben Masada

I did not know Israeli Jews were all raw-vegetable vegans.

 

[Ben Masada]

it is you that is using the method of the christian in question, which ought to give you pause for thought. apparently, you would prefer that i overlook the poverty of your argument out of what, ahavat yisrael? - well, this is an argument l'shem shamayim, but you refuse to realise how such arguments are constructed.


blimey, now you're reaching, are you really suggesting that ecclesiastes means "yashar" like that? ridiculously anachronistic.


your metaphors are entirely personal and the way you use them is christian and karaite, not in any normative jewish sense.



oh, my fecking goodness... THE OVEN OF AKHNAI, ignoramus. it's like rabbinic judaism 101. i have mentioned it before, to you, here:

http://www.interfaith.org/forum/but-really-why-was-jesus-15007-12.html#post263112

and here:

http://www.interfaith.org/forum/the-definition-of-a-miracle-14849-2.html#post258916

and here:

http://www.interfaith.org/forum/questions-13111-2.html#post233872

and here:

http://www.interfaith.org/forum/genuine-question-to-theists-part-10709-10.html#post181130

and here:

http://www.interfaith.org/forum/san-francisco-may-vote-on-13939-2.html#post245200

and here:

http://www.interfaith.org/forum/bibli-idolatry-12621-3.html#post224716

and here:

http://www.interfaith.org/forum/reform-10886-10.html#post219091

and here:

http://www.interfaith.org/forum/reformation-10925-2.html#post184682

and here:

http://www.interfaith.org/forum/rabbinic-interpretation-and-jewish-law-7708-2.html#post119252

now bugger off and learn some bloody basic gemara; i am fed up with repeating myself over and over again.

bananabrain

The best way to avoid such frustration is to ignore my posts.

Ben

 

[Ben Masada]

You're Jewish??

Simply that, from your postings, you seem generally unfamiliar with Jewish culture, and instead quite familiar with Protestant Christianity.

I read everything. One does not need to go for a 4-year college in Christian Theology to understand what the NT is all about.

Ben

 

[Ben Masada]

"Oven!!!" Is that what you have for me? Such a word does not fit Israeli Jews. We are of a different kind of Jews -- Ben Masada

I did not know Israeli Jews were all raw-vegetable vegans.

Right. Not all of them are.

 

[bananabrain]

The best way to avoid such frustration is to ignore my posts.

i would, but i worry that people will actually think your positions are representative of normative mainstream judaism.

b'shalom

bananabrain

 

[iBrian]

I read everything. One does not need to go for a 4-year college in Christian Theology to understand what the NT is all about.

Ben

Maybe, but you don't come across as particularly knowledgeable about Judaism. Not intended as an insult - just that you seem to stumble over traditional Jewish references.

 

[radarmark]

I for one, agree with both bananabrain and brian. Ben is not representative of mainstream Judaism.

 

[wil]

I for one, agree with both bananabrain and brian. Ben is not representative of mainstream Judaism.

Ben is representative of Ben.... he's got his followers....I believe he has been here to fin more...I don't believe he has been successful.

We've had many a prophet come thru here, seems lately we've got some apprentices practicing on us....running things up flagpoles...

 

[Ben Masada]

i would, but i worry that people will actually think your positions are representative of normative mainstream judaism.

b'shalom

bananabrain

Does it mean you prefer that they paint us as believers of talking serpents and God walking in the Garden of Eden asking for Adam? Is that what you call normative Judaism?

Ben