Paul vs. Jesus...the grudge match...

juantoo3 said:
http://www.interfaith.org/forum/i-am-the-master-of-2576.html

2ndpillar, to be even more plain look at this thread...just the first post...and see that I do know exactly where you are coming from.
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Dear Juan,
I don't see your point. Unlike yourself, and your reference to your past, except for one puff of a joint in the Army, and one puff in California while with a cousin, I have never been a drug addict, nor do I use prescription drugs. I have never been a prostitute, except for working for the Federal Government for a couple of years, which may or may not be an excusable offense. And unlike what was contained in your confession, I have never forced my opinion on others, and when following Yeshua's testimony, of not covering up a light given to me under a "peck measure".(Mt 5:15), I give references to my positions. That you are all encompassing, and compassionate in your own eyes, that is fine with me. The pope seems to be following your lead. (Rev 22:11) "Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong; and let the one who is filthy, still be filthy;". If you have something to say, say it in plain language. I would suggest that you not justify the wicked and condemn the righteous.
Proverbs 17:15 - He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both [are] abomination to the LORD.
Just say what you want to say, in plain language. If something I have said is wrong. Simply point out what it is, and what is wrong about it.
 
I don't know how to be more plain. You deliberately dodge the subject to avoid anything, any message, any hope, any love that can possibly show you your error.

It is *not* your job to pluck the tares...unless you are Messiah? Thinking it is your job and worse, proceeding to do so, means you judge, and condemn...and no doubt are just this side of executing...those *you* judge as unfit. G-d is the judge! Not you! "Judge not, that ye be not judged...for with what measure ye mete, so shall it be measured unto you!" As long as you sit in judgment, as you do now, you are a Destroyer and a child of the Destroyer. Until you realize the words in Revelations that "he who leads into captivity shall be led into captivity, and he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword...here is the patience and the faith of the saints," you will continue in your chosen path of Destruction. In your own words, "I am only pulling up the tares, the fact that some wheat is disturbed should not bother the wheat heads which are mature.(Mt 13:39)" It is *not* your place to pull up the tares, and if you were to continue reading that passage you would see what I say here is plainly spelled out by Yashua. The fact that "some wheat is disturbed" is *every* reason why *not* to go meddling in affairs you have no knowledge of and no business in. Do you realize how much like the Taliban your quote sounds like? What difference does it make if we kill a few of our own children, women and old folks as long as we kill a few infidels too!?!

There is none so blind as he who refuses to see.

I have no illusions of you taking my words to heart...you will dismiss me. I'm OK with that, I've planted the seed...I cannot make it grow. Mark my words, the day will come when what I have said here will return to you. You will have forgotten me, and I'm OK with that. But the words will stay with you forever, and I can only pray they eventually make a difference in your faith walk.
 
2ndpillar said:
Unlike yourself, and your reference to your past, except for one puff of a joint in the Army, and one puff in California while with a cousin, I have never been a drug addict, nor do I use prescription drugs. I have never been a prostitute, except for working for the Federal Government for a couple of years, which may or may not be an excusable offense.
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And BTW...for the record...your deceitful attempt to misquote me has not gone unnoticed. As long as you wish to continue using such tactics in an underhanded attempt to discredit me, we have nothing further to discuss. It proves to me you didn't even attempt to read what I wrote...either that or what I wrote struck a nerve and the only way you could find to save face is to smear my character.

How's that for plain?
 
Jesus and Paul taught the same Gospel. Peter and others agreed with Paul's teaching in the Word.

Jesus said, "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all truth" (John 16:13). The apostles would thus be divinely guided by the HS in their teaching. Luke was inspired when he wrote the account of Paul being called to be an apostle. Peter was inspired when he wrote that Paul's writings were Scripture. Paul's teachings were in total harmony with Jesus and the other Apostle's.

 
juantoo3 said:
I don't know how to be more plain. You deliberately dodge the subject to avoid anything, any message, any hope, any love that can possibly show you your error.

It is *not* your job to pluck the tares...unless you are Messiah? Thinking it is your job and worse, proceeding to do so, means you judge, and condemn...and no doubt are just this side of executing...those *you* judge as unfit. G-d is the judge! Not you! "Judge not, that ye be not judged...for with what measure ye mete, so shall it be measured unto you!" As long as you sit in judgment, as you do now, you are a Destroyer and a child of the Destroyer. Until you realize the words in Revelations that "he who leads into captivity shall be led into captivity, and he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword...here is the patience and the faith of the saints," you will continue in your chosen path of Destruction. In your own words, "I am only pulling up the tares, the fact that some wheat is disturbed should not bother the wheat heads which are mature.(Mt 13:39)" It is *not* your place to pull up the tares, and if you were to continue reading that passage you would see what I say here is plainly spelled out by Yashua. The fact that "some wheat is disturbed" is *every* reason why *not* to go meddling in affairs you have no knowledge of and no business in. Do you realize how much like the Taliban your quote sounds like? What difference does it make if we kill a few of our own children, women and old folks as long as we kill a few infidels too!?!

There is none so blind as he who refuses to see.

I have no illusions of you taking my words to heart...you will dismiss me. I'm OK with that, I've planted the seed...I cannot make it grow. Mark my words, the day will come when what I have said here will return to you. You will have forgotten me, and I'm OK with that. But the words will stay with you forever, and I can only pray they eventually make a difference in your faith walk.
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Dear juan,
The thread is about Paul, not about Juan. If I say something that is incorrect, please let me know in a precise manner. This is not a brick and mortar building where people come to the front and tell their personal stories to get people to say the church's "sinner's prayer". As for calling me blind, that worries me none in the least. It is a judgment that you have made. Something you seem to condemn me for. For the record, it is the angels of God that do the reaping, who "gather out of his kingdom all "STUMBLING BLOCKS AND THOSE WHO COMMIT LAWLESSNESS," and it shall be at the "end of the age" (Mt 13:39-40)

The self professed prophet Paul thinks that he can justify the wicked through words. He and his followers are not correct in this. One must heed the message of Yeshua. (Mt 7:25) Following the daughters of Babylon is not a wise choice.
Proverbs 17:15 - He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both [are] abomination to the LORD.
 
kevin007 said:
Jesus and Paul taught the same Gospel. Peter and others agreed with Paul's teaching in the Word.

Jesus said, "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all truth" (John 16:13). The apostles would thus be divinely guided by the HS in their teaching. Luke was inspired when he wrote the account of Paul being called to be an apostle. Peter was inspired when he wrote that Paul's writings were Scripture. Paul's teachings were in total harmony with Jesus and the other Apostle's.
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Dear kevin,
Yeshua taught the gospel of the "kingdom". Paul taught the gospel of "Grace". The followers of Paul's gospel of "Grace", nail the testimony of Yeshua to a cross. Not a wise move.

As for Luke, Luke was very specific in his commentary, Luke 1:3, he was a second party scribe writing down events given to him by others. One of his main contributors would have been his associate Paul.

As for 2 Peter, it is doubtful that 2 Peter was written by Peter, and he certainly didn't say that Paul's teachings were "in total harmony with Jesus and the other Apostles". A cursory reading would show that is not true. Second Epistle of Peter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just because the Roman church, says something is holy, does not make it true, and looking at the fruit (Mt 7:18) of that church, it seems like making such a leap of faith, would be a bad move(Proverbs 20:25).

As for John 16:13, this applies to all in the sons of God who do the will of God. Yeshua said no brother should call anyone "teacher, leader, or Father" (Mt 23:8-10)
 
Thomas said:
So how d'you think we get into the the "Kingdom", if not by "Grace"?
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Dear Thomas,
One must seek "His kingdom".

Mt 6:33,"But seek first His kingdom, and His righteousness; and all these things shall be added to you."

Mt 19:21,"Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven ; and come, follow Me."

Mt 13:45 "Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant seeking fine pearls, and upon finding one pearl of great value, he went and sold all that he had and bought it.
 
2ndpillar said:
Dear Thomas,
One must seek "His kingdom".

Mt 6:33,"But seek first His kingdom, and His righteousness; and all these things shall be added to you."

Mt 19:21,"Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven ; and come, follow Me."

Mt 13:45 "Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant seeking fine pearls, and upon finding one pearl of great value, he went and sold all that he had and bought it.
Click to expand...
The Kingdom of heaven is within you and all around you. Split a piece of wood (love) and there you will find me , move a stone(compassion) and there I will be. These two quotes tell you have the potential to find the kingdom of heaven within yourself.
 
donnann said:
The Kingdom of heaven is within you and all around you. Split a piece of wood (love) and there you will find me , move a stone(compassion) and there I will be. These two quotes tell you have the potential to find the kingdom of heaven within yourself.
Click to expand...

Dear donna,
Mt 7:14,"and few are those that find it."
 
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