In pursuit of the mystical

It would be more use to the dialogue if you actually chose to discuss the point I was making, the contemporary misreading of mediaeval texts — rather than make ill-informed, asumptive and somewhat offensive assumptions about my character.


That's fine, but as I pointed out, your perspective is evidently dualistic, which will prevent you from correctly understanding the data of the Christian Revelation.


Yes, they do seem quite typical of views and opinions shaped by the Romance Movement (from which sprang Theosophy, Anthroposophy, (pseudo-)Wicca, various European esoteric schools, Spiritualism, seances, etc., etc., the Sublime in art, the Gothic in literature... it was a revolt against the dehumanising aspects of the Industrial Revolution, and underpins much of New Age thinking.

I am always alerted when I am told someone "correctly" understands something written in a human language, and implies that I am unable to "get it". Usually it means "Because I said so!" And the addition of "Data" was to further enhance the idea of complexity which escapes the mortal man, wasn't it? :D
Got your thinking cap on Thomas.... one.... two... three..... think hard!
 
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The ark of the covenant has not been found yet. It contains within it tablets. Those tablets represent the kingdom of heaven, the place beyond as well as here.

In a land with Unicorns and Rainbows, where Angels play harps and dance square dances every saturday night....
 
Curious that a discussion about 'the mystical' ends up talking about drugs ...
 
Curious that a discussion about 'the mystical' ends up talking about drugs ...

lol :)

another way to look at psychedelic plants and mushrooms is that they are not just drugs as such but they are gifts from Gaia to expand human consciousness.

calling them drugs makes them sound bad.

its a pretty bad refection on the society that I live in that it is illegal for me to pick a certain type of mushroom from a field somewhere, I mean what sort of authoritarian society is this :eek:
 
another way to look at psychedelic plants and mushrooms is that they are not just drugs as such but they are gifts from Gaia to expand human consciousness.
That's certainly a view. I do think it's somewhat problematic. I'm with William Blake on this one: "No bird soars too high if he soars with his own wings."

I'd rather do that than admit, "it's not me, its the LSD."

There are enough Icarus casualties of the psychedelic revolution of the 60s and 70s, and it's mantra 'turn on, tune in, and drop out' is a reckless abandonment of human dignity to contra-culture consumerism.

I know of a man who's 'consciousness was expanded', just by contemplating a rose as it bloomed. Another who underwent a similar experience looking at the Rose Window at Chatres Cathedral.

Read 'The Naked Lunch', William Borroughs.

Its a pretty bad refection on the society that I live in that it is illegal for me to pick a certain type of mushroom from a field somewhere, I mean what sort of authoritarian society is this :eek:
Oh, I quite agree. In parts of London where I live, whole sections of the community are being vilified and victimised as easy targets, and our young men are killing each other with alarming regularity.

(What's the life expectancy of an Afro-carribean male in the US? Worse than just about anywhere else in the world!)

The country is fighting economic ruin, and millions are wasted in the pursuit of this 'war on drugs' — millions that could assist the exchequer if the stuff was legalised — everybody knows it, but thanks to the popular press and certain, a-hem, influential governments, there's unlikely to be any common sense debate on this topic for a long time yet ...
 
lol :)

another way to look at psychedelic plants and mushrooms is that they are not just drugs as such but they are gifts from Gaia to expand human consciousness.

calling them drugs makes them sound bad.

its a pretty bad refection on the society that I live in that it is illegal for me to pick a certain type of mushroom from a field somewhere, I mean what sort of authoritarian society is this :eek:
Look at poison ivy. If you touch it you get a rash. It is a natural plant, distorted from its original state. It is the same with magic mushrooms. What spiritual growth do you get by taking say lds and thinking bugs are crawling all over you? there are good drugs then there are bad drugs. Coming from someone who has in my life time taken many different prescription drugs I can attest to this fact. I was given a drug one time that made me so sick I spit up blood. It was a bad drug. Some mental drugs , that effect your psyche, can be harmful to you and hinder your spiritual growth. Its the sequences that make them harmful. If you corrected the sequences they would become perfect elements. Its like genetic diseases. There is a wrong sequence that exists in the blood. If that is corrected you could cure the disease. I personally have never taken magic mushrooms. Have you? If you have I am curious to know how that helped you personally in spiritual growth.
 
Poison Ivy has an acid on it which when it gets into your cells it makes your body think that they are foriegn and begins to attack them...an auto immune response attacking your own cells.

I don't know anyone who has taken lsd or mushrooms and thought they had bugs crawling on them... cant believe everything you see in the movies or on the net. As to psylocibin I posted some info on the studies above...plenty to read there.
 
Those who "crave" mysticism often mistake their craving to an altered state of reality because they do not like their mundane reality. It is an escape mechanism for them. When they fail to experience it with meditation, they will seek out a hypnotist, then that fails, they go for magic mushrooms. This is the pitfall of the Western Tradition. Many have fallen into this trap. Manly Palmer Hall who was a genius, fell for this and went to Haiti to "study" voodoo. People around him warned that it will end badly and it did. When you get obsessed by phenomena and your own "powers" that can and often lead to your fall.
 
Poison Ivy has an acid on it which when it gets into your cells it makes your body think that they are foriegn and begins to attack them...an auto immune response attacking your own cells.

I don't know anyone who has taken lsd or mushrooms and thought they had bugs crawling on them... cant believe everything you see in the movies or on the net. As to psylocibin I posted some info on the studies above...plenty to read there.
Thank you.
 
Those who "crave" mysticism often mistake their craving to an altered state of reality because they do not like their mundane reality. It is an escape mechanism for them. When they fail to experience it with meditation, they will seek out a hypnotist, then that fails, they go for magic mushrooms. This is the pitfall of the Western Tradition. Many have fallen into this trap. Manly Palmer Hall who was a genius, fell for this and went to Haiti to "study" voodoo. People around him warned that it will end badly and it did. When you get obsessed by phenomena and your own "powers" that can and often lead to your fall.

the use of magic mushrooms etc is ancient and is not limited to so called "western people" looking for a hit, the use is ancient historic and evolutionary.
 
"Those who "crave" mysticism often mistake their craving to an altered state of reality..."

--> This is also true of people who crave psychic powers. It has been said, don't go looking for psychic powers, wait for them to come looking for you (and have yourself already mature enough).
 
That said, I think the Shamans of the East or antiquities were somehow better equipped to handle the hallucinogens that the wanna be followers of the New Age movement or today's curious.
the use of magic mushrooms etc is ancient and is not limited to so called "western people" looking for a hit, the use is ancient historic and evolutionary.
 
That said, I think the Shamans of the East or antiquities were somehow better equipped to handle the hallucinogens that the wanna be followers of the New Age movement or today's curious.


and why would that be ?
 
Life was simpler back them, even today indigenous people avoid the maladies of "civilization". Civilization often means overcrowding, lack of harmony with nature, rampant poverty. Civilization brings about stress, stress brings about mental illness/nervousness and using drugs and alcohol when mental illness/disorder is present just exaggerate the problems.
I though this was obvious....
and why would that be ?
 
Life was simpler back them, even today indigenous people avoid the maladies of "civilization". Civilization often means overcrowding, lack of harmony with nature, rampant poverty. Civilization brings about stress, stress brings about mental illness/nervousness and using drugs and alcohol when mental illness/disorder is present just exaggerate the problems.
I though this was obvious....

you make some interesting points

That said, I think the Shamans of the East or antiquities were somehow better equipped to handle the hallucinogens that the wanna be followers of the New Age movement or today's curious.

although civilization exists in the "East" as well as "the West" so the anti western argument is weak.

I believe we are spiritual beings "Westerners" included, the sincere seeker can rediscover this inherent spirituality, psychedelics can be a useful tool but they are open to abuse as well.
 
I believe we are spiritual beings "Westerners" included, the sincere seeker can rediscover this inherent spirituality, psychedelics can be a useful tool but they are open to abuse as well.
Beg to differ. Research is not done under the effect of psychedelics. You need an alert, aware mind. Psychedelics, liquor, Soma, or whatever, after the task is completed, is OK (if one is so inclined).
 
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There is perhaps nobody who examined the vast differences between the mindset of the Eastern men and the Western thought than the American philosopher F. S. C. Northrop, who taught philosophy at Yale in 1923.

In his book, The Meeting of East and West he stated that the Western mind has been continuously searching for the theoretical component of existence -- the causal link for how things happen, what is the cause, how the effect can be controlled, basically how man can manipulate nature.

Contrary, the traditional Eastern Mind is on a more contemplative and more striving towards the aesthetic. Balance and harmony.

The East traditionally seeks to find the aesthetic component of reality -- not the theoretical, but the aesthetic.
Obviously, the western mind is in constant struggle and turmoil. It seeks to control nature and it is not always a winning battle. It has enlisted science and technology for this formidable task but in this striving many things backfired.
The expression of the east and west is not geographical anymore.

Sadly, there is overwhelming western mentality when you visit the east. And often you find, in isolated pockets, the revival of the eastern thought when you roam the United States or Europe. Geography and mindset is often in contrast.

In isolated cases you can still find the east in the places where you normally would seek, Japan, China and India. In the macro sense the west permeated with its ideology and technology all over the eastern hemisphere. It has reached a technological and industrial dominance, and we see the backlash in climate change and pollution everywhere.

The Western mind is the male component and the East is the female. Essentially, the Eastern ideas of harmony and balance are of love and the Western striving for control and power is of domination and struggle. From this chain of thought, it is clearly can be derived that the Eastern mind, if can be found, is more spiritual.
The Western mind is insatiable it always wants more; it wants it faster, smaller. It is never satisfied. The Eastern mind knows that overreaching is both illusionary and misleading.

In China they developed technology, they developed gunpowder; they developed all that was later developed in the west. Five thousand years ago they developed everything, and then they felt the meaninglessness of it – the same way it is now felt in the west. They felt that it was useless.
When they felt that it was useless, they turned to the opposite extreme. They said, `Now turn inward'.

The "Middle Kingdom" had turned itself away and became isolated. It became vulnerable. Shrouded in mystery and isolation it became a target of the west.

We must find the balance of technology that serves us, used in harmony and balance with nature so we can remain free. When pills and technology controls every single aspect of our lives, that is no longer WE are in control but as science fiction would have it, the robots took over.
 
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