According to both John and Mark, the women came on the first day of the week, early in the morning.
Mark says the sun had risen, John says it was still dark, but either way, it's the morning of the day.
Common Figure of Speech/Colloquial Language?
- Thread starter rstrats
- Start date
Mark says the sun had risen, John says it was still dark, but either way, it's the morning of the day.
I don't see where John says it was early in the morning.
So even though it was dark out, you're suggesting that "The first (day) of the week..." is referring to the daytime of a 12 hour calendar day.
And I repeat that I don't see where John says it was early in the morning.
TheLightWithin
...through a glass, darkly
- Messages
- 2,007
- Reaction score
- 1,135
- Points
- 108
Just a few lines down, John 21:4.
TheLightWithin
...through a glass, darkly
- Messages
- 2,007
- Reaction score
- 1,135
- Points
- 108
Ok but if you are indeed talking about John 20:1 it outright says "Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance."
Early in the day while it is still dark means first thing in the morning (before sunrise).
Am I misunderstanding or is that what you all have been trying to establish?
Or am I missing something?
Last edited:
I am. And I still don't see where it says it was early in the morning.
Apparently, we both are.
Are you being deliberately obtuse?
John 20:1
"Τῇ δὲ μιᾷ τῶν σαββάτων Μαρία ἡ Μαγδαληνὴ ἔρχεται πρωῒ σκοτίας ἔτι οὔσης εἰς τὸ μνημεῖον καὶ βλέπει τὸν λίθον ἠρμένον ἐκ τοῦ μνημείου"
DBH translation:
"Now early on the first (day) of the Sabbath-week, while it is still dark, Mary the Magdalene comes to the tomb and sees that the stone has been removed from the tomb... "
Please show me where the word "morning" is in that sentence.
Really ... you're really going to pursue this?
I would suggest that 'early' on any day, 'while it is still dark' suggests the morning. Ity's clearly not the eventing, is it?
But, because I wondered how Hart translated other texts – such as Luke 24:1:
"But on the first day of the week, in the deep dawnlight ... " whereas the KJV has:
"And on the first day of the week, very early in the morning ...
(The Greek phrase is ὄρθρου βαθέοςis, orthros bathos – orthros (daybreak, dawn, early in the morning), bathos (literally – 'deep', figuratively 'very early').
Mark 16:2:
"And very early on the first day of the Sabbath-week they come to the tomb, as the sun is rising... "
Matthew 28:1:
"But after the Sabbath, at the dawn of the first day of the Sabbath-week ..."
I would suggest that 'early' on any day, 'while it is still dark' suggests the morning. Ity's clearly not the eventing, is it?
But, because I wondered how Hart translated other texts – such as Luke 24:1:
"But on the first day of the week, in the deep dawnlight ... " whereas the KJV has:
"And on the first day of the week, very early in the morning ...
(The Greek phrase is ὄρθρου βαθέοςis, orthros bathos – orthros (daybreak, dawn, early in the morning), bathos (literally – 'deep', figuratively 'very early').
Mark 16:2:
"And very early on the first day of the Sabbath-week they come to the tomb, as the sun is rising... "
Matthew 28:1:
"But after the Sabbath, at the dawn of the first day of the Sabbath-week ..."
TheLightWithin
...through a glass, darkly
- Messages
- 2,007
- Reaction score
- 1,135
- Points
- 108
It says early in the day while it was still dark.
Do you think there is ambiguity there? That that passage could, somehow, signify something other than morning?
Do you think it's odd that people reading it think it refers to early morning?
talib-al-kalim
Well-Known Member
No, it's clear. The morning dawn is the beginning of the day. For us Muslim it's the time of the first day prayer (الفجر).
Jews pray שחרית after sunrise, but it's also natural for them and others to say that the daybreak is at the first dawn.