Are some people scared of their faith?

"There is a lot in the Bible which is very offensive indeed..."

--> Like the part in Genesis where God puts a curse on all women. That's disgusting. And quite frankly, I do not have a lot of respect for someone who refuses to say this story in Genesis is disgusting.

I believe in reincarnation, which means I believe we all have incarnations as women from time to time. So God puts a curse on all of us when we reincarnate as women, then removes it when we reincarnate as men?
 
The Bible was written in very different times to the one in which we live, and was written from the many authors perceptions of the world. They created the deity in the image which suited their thoughts and feelings. Fair enough. However some of the social attitudes depicted in that book don't sit well in the 21st century, like its attitude to women and gays for instance.
 
Quirkybird said:
There is a lot in the Bible which is very offensive indeed, and some Christians latch onto it to defend the inexcusable, like homophobia.
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its pretty raw and uncut.

and its not only Christians who are homophobic.

as a Christian its a good idea to filter the Old Testament through the New Testament as it represents a new covenant.
 
Homosexuality was alive and well in biblical times...but with war taking all the young men, the rabbi's forbid it, so the community would grow... didn't stop homosexuality, just put them in the closet before there were closets.
 
NiceCupOfTea said:
its pretty raw and uncut.

and its not only Christians who are homophobic.

as a Christian its a good idea to filter the Old Testament through the New Testament as it represents a new covenant.
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Paul was anti women and anti gay, and he was a new testament writer!
 
Quirkybird said:
Paul was anti women and anti gay, and he was a new testament writer!
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Are you basing your claim of Paul being anti-women on 1 Timothy 2:12 by any chance?? If so, I want to ask you if you are aware that many scholars have different views on the passage.

Many modern scholars believe on the basis of content, vocabulary, and literary style that 1 Timothy, as well as five other Pauline letters, were not written by Paul but are pseudepigraphical. They contend that this verse fits poorly with Paul's more positive references to Christian women and may be a later interpolation rather than part of the original text. Still others such as scholars/theologians Richard and Catherine Kroeger believe Paul did write the epistle of 1 Timothy, but that he was addressing a particular problem peculiar to the Church at Ephesus where Timothy was pastor of the multicultural congregation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_Timothy_2:12


In Romans chapter 16, Paul salutes many people who worked hard for promulgating Christianity regardless of gender.

1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:
2 That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.
3 Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus:
4 Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles.
5 Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my well-beloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.
6 Greet Mary, who bestowed much labour on us.
7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.
8 Greet Amplias my beloved in the Lord.
9 Salute Urbane, our helper in Christ, and Stachys my beloved.
10 Salute Apelles approved in Christ. Salute them which are of Aristobulus' household.
11 Salute Herodion my kinsman. Greet them that be of the household of Narcissus, which are in the Lord.
12 Salute Tryphena and Tryphosa, who labour in the Lord. Salute the beloved Persis, which laboured much in the Lord.
13 Salute Rufus chosen in the Lord, and his mother and mine.
14 Salute Asyncritus, Phlegon, Hermas, Patrobas, Hermes, and the brethren which are with them.
15 Salute Philologus, and Julia, Nereus, and his sister, and Olympas, and all the saints which are with them.
16 Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you.
 
Whatever Paul actually meant, a lot of fundamentalist/Biblical literalists use 2Timothy 2:12 as an excuse to keep women under submission. A close relative of mine is a 'born again' and believe she should be totally submissive to her husband, which makes me want to throw up!:eek:

There is a still some opposition to women priests in the UK, as 'women should be silent in church'! Our eldest daughter is an Anglican Priest.
 
Quirkybird said:
Whatever Paul actually meant, a lot of fundamentalist/Biblical literalists use 2Timothy 2:12 as an excuse to keep women under submission. A close relative of mine is a 'born again' and believe she should be totally submissive to her husband, which makes me want to throw up!:eek:

There is a still some opposition to women priests in the UK, as 'women should be silent in church'! Our eldest daughter is an Anglican Priest.
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Well, the problem is with those people.

It is totally unfair to blame the author of a book, when his content was misunderstood, or when quoted out of context, or when he may have not written it!

Tad
 
Tadashi said:
Well, the problem is with those people.

It is totally unfair to blame the author of a book, when his content was misunderstood, or when quoted out of context, or when he may have not written it!

Tad
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Many of Paul's writings come over as very unpleasant, imo!
 
Tad said "They contend that this verse fits poorly with Paul's more positive references to Christian women and may be a later interpolation rather than part of the original text."

Again, Tad, my comments are not aimed at you; rather at the subject you have brought up. And that is that it seems to becoming very trendy to dissociate anything the bible says as either having been misinterpreted, a later addition, or should be taken allegorically rather than literally.

This is very convenient as it allows religious folk to keep the views in the bible they approve of as divine, while allowing them to separate out those parts of the bible that don't fit neatly into their preconceived notions.

This is disturbing to me because it begs the question who gets to make the choice on what in the bible is meant literally and what is not. When people cherry pick the bible to get the 'reality' they desire, the result can be for good or for evil.

I'm sure those responsible for the Inquisition used their ability to pick and choose what the bible said to justify their reign of terror.

And there are those who have done good deeds and supported the needy because they used their ability to pick and choose to justify their good works.

Bringing this all back around to the original discussion, the fire and brimstone types justify their manipulation of the bible text to drive fear into the hearts of their followers; thus gaining control over them.

This bible is a document which holds both great potential and the most heinous evil.
 
G, can we agree that some of the stuff in the bible wasn't written to be taken literally, some are really obvious, others are judgement calls. Which brings me to "who gets to make the choice on what in the bible is meant literally and what is not" because it doesn't sound like you. Each and every person has to come to that conclusion, juts like it has always been, and always will be. I though we were on the same page on that one?

Some are romantic, like donnann, some are afraid, like that sheep in that other thread, some are really focused on living here and now, like wil, and some are kind of green and haven't made up their mind all the way yet, like Tad. Religion will only take someone so far, we will always show us what's really in our hearts in the end. Don't you think?
 
Yes we do agree, Tea. That is what makes me nervous. Those who use those parts of the bible to justify evil. Like the current trend in this country to use the bible to hate the homosexual lifestyle. It makes me uncomfortable that a tool can be used for good or evil depending on who wields it.

But then I have to admit, that is true of all tools, huh. Looked at in that perspective, religious texts are not really any different. I may have to alter my opinion in that sense.
 
Quirkybird said:
Many of Paul's writings come over as very unpleasant, imo!
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Okay, you're entitled to your opinion as I'm entitled to mine.

Paul also said below, but I guess it doesn't matter, because it seems you've already made up your mind about him.

So, I feel no further conversation will be fruitful.

Tad

1 Corinthians 13 (NIV)

1 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
 
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