Discussing Matters of Faith:

[Namaste Jesus]

My Grandmother would often say, "discussing matters of faith is the fastest way to turn staunch allies into a mortal enemies."

My Great Aunt, Grans older sister, often said, "do not delve too deeply into the scripture. It will consume you."

Judging by some of the posts in this and other such forums, I'd have to agree.

Expressing ones religious views on forums like this is truly a double edged sword. While, it's healthy to exchange ideas and share beliefs, this often leads to those with opposing views being at odds with each other. Simple debates turn into juvenile exchanges and all too often, the point of the thread is lost. Very frustrating and counter productive.

So, what's the solution? How do we avoid this?

It will be interesting to see how long this thread stays on topic.

 

[Thomas]

Do what most have done.

Walk away.

 

[NiceCupOfTea]

in the early days of these types of forums I used to get quite involved heated and sometimes angry in these discussions, thankfully I think i have moved on and can live and let live now.

 

[Namaste Jesus]

Do what most have done.

Walk away.

You know, there's a great deal of merit in that statement. After all, Christian and Hindu scripture alike do say in essence to disassociate ones self from nay sayers and non-believers. A definite point to ponder.

 

[Ducks and Witches]

A long, long, long time ago in High School (yeah that long ago) there was a girl in my class who was a devout Christian. I a non believer. We had many long discussions about God and faith over a three year period. But it was never heated. We never got angry with one another. We were always civil and friends. We respected each others beliefs, and never tried to change one another.

Today, Christians feel their way of life is being repressed by the ungodly Atheists. Likewise Atheists feel Christians are forcing their life style onto non believers. So it's no longer a matter of discussing philosophical ideas. But who is infringing on who's choice and free will. So it's War.

That in itself would be a heated debate.

 

[Nick the Pilot]

Hi, D&W, and welcome to the forum. You said,

" We were always civil and friends. We respected each others beliefs..."

--> I totally agree. I would add that, in order to have a civil discussion, two people have to be willing to acknowledge each other's point of view. When I have a religious discussion with someone, I always try to acknowledge the other person's point of view, and then wait to see if they will acknowledge mine. If they won't, I see it as a clear indication that continuing the discussion any further will be a waste of time.

 

[Thomas]

When I have a religious discussion with someone, I always try to acknowledge the other person's point of view, and then wait to see if they will acknowledge mine...

Ooh, you fibber!

 

[LincolnSpector]

Today, Christians feel their way of life is being repressed by the ungodly Atheists. Likewise Atheists feel Christians are forcing their life style onto non believers. So it's no longer a matter of discussing philosophical ideas. But who is infringing on who's choice and free will. So it's War.

That in itself would be a heated debate.

Hey, Ducks.

I don't agree. It just seems that way because the major media today thrives on conflict. Christians and atheists yelling at each other is better TV than a respectful debate.

This forum itself shows that people can discuss these issues respectively.

 

[Ducks and Witches]

Hey, Ducks.

I don't agree. It just seems that way because the major media today thrives on conflict. Christians and atheists yelling at each other is better TV than a respectful debate.

This forum itself shows that people can discuss these issues respectively.

I know the media inflates issues and stretches the truth, if not flat out lie. So I hope you are correct. Or let me put it this way, I hope most people of different faiths and non faiths know this, and interact civilly in their daily lives with one another.

 

[Tadashi]

Expressing ones religious views on forums like this is truly a double edged sword. While, it's healthy to exchange ideas and share beliefs, this often leads to those with opposing views being at odds with each other. Simple debates turn into juvenile exchanges and all too often, the point of the thread is lost. Very frustrating and counter productive.

Religion and politics... these are the two very things said not to be talked about with people whom you don’t know well... But here we are, doing just that!

I am very thankful of a forum like this... where I can be almost completely (95% perhaps?) honest with my thoughts and express them without fear of ruining personal relationships... I have many Christian friends but there is only a handful that I can express my heretic views of God/Christianity without hesitation.

Sure, sometimes conversations get unexpectedly heated and we can get upset or what not, but so what? what’s to lose? It doesn't affect our personal lives, what happens in forums stays in forums! To me, it’s all gain (learning), and nothing to lose... And yes, there’s always an option of walking away... the option I don’t have with my future in-laws and relatives!

Forums are a great haven for me to let out my thoughts... It is kind of strange (scary in a way?) that the people I don’t even really know that well, know more about my inner thoughts than, say, the people I hang out all the time, or even my own parents

So, what's the solution? How do we avoid this?

Well... the standard attitude in discussion/debate should be “criticize the idea that you disagree with, but not the person”, and if you realized you've upset someone even when you didn't intend to, apologize or express regret. These simple manners should work fairly well among most reasonable people, I think.

Oh, btw, has it ever occurred to you guys that we could actually be talking to someone we do know in our real life? I mean, we can totally hide or fake our locations, right? (I’m not faking mine, I really live in America!) It would be really funny if one of you is actually my neighbor or colleague or store owner where I frequent! haha...

And Welcome to the forum, D&W!

Tad

 

[Zinga]

Expressing ones religious views on forums like this is truly a double edged sword. While, it's healthy to exchange ideas and share beliefs, this often leads to those with opposing views being at odds with each other. Simple debates turn into juvenile exchanges and all too often, the point of the thread is lost. Very frustrating and counter productive.

So, what's the solution? How do we avoid this?

It will be interesting to see how long this thread stays on topic.

I do agree, its healthy to exhange ideas and share beliefs ...
Problem is some have not reached a level of greater understanding, therefore, it is almost impossible to expect more than what is given ...
The ego is very touchy where humility does not exist when being corrected or provided w/food for thought ...
It wants what it wants, when it wants it & how it wants it ...
Meaning it will not stand down to open up to new information, rather it will save face first & foremost ...
It happens, at the same time, when all is said there is time to re-think about the exchange to make adjustments if so desired ...
And that's a good thing!

 

[Nick the Pilot]

"The ego is very touchy where humility does not exist when being corrected or provided w/food for thought ... It wants what it wants, when it wants it & how it wants it ..."

--> I do marriage counseling, and your idea is one of the core components of my theories of divorce. You should be a marriage counselor!

 

[Quirkybird]

I will always state my point of view. I try not to be rude to people, but make no apologies for my take on matters of religion.

 

[Zinga]

"The ego is very touchy where humility does not exist when being corrected or provided w/food for thought ... It wants what it wants, when it wants it & how it wants it ..."

--> I do marriage counseling, and your idea is one of the core components of my theories of divorce. You should be a marriage counselor!

Thank you for the compliment!
I had a wonderful marriage & was once upon a time a probation officer ...
I worked w/domestic abuse couples & individuals - I swear it was all the same! "EGO"!

 

[Namaste Jesus]

I do agree, its healthy to exhange ideas and share beliefs ...
Problem is some have not reached a level of greater understanding, therefore, it is almost impossible to expect more than what is given ...
The ego is very touchy where humility does not exist when being corrected or provided w/food for thought ...
It wants what it wants, when it wants it & how it wants it ...
Meaning it will not stand down to open up to new information, rather it will save face first & foremost ...
It happens, at the same time, when all is said there is time to re-think about the exchange to make adjustments if so desired ...
And that's a good thing!

You hit the nail on the head. It's that ego thing that gets in the way of rational thought most times.

Hindu scripture tells us that in order to achieve Dharma, (righteousness), we must relinquish all egotistical thought.

Easier said than done.

 

[Quirkybird]

Ego is another word for 'self' and surely where matters of faith are concerned it is how each person feels about the topic that should matter to them, and how it affects them and their interaction with others. I would never relinquish my feeling of self as it makes me me.

 

[Gordian Knot]

Tad said "the standard attitude in discussion/debate should be “criticize the idea that you disagree with, but not the person”

So right! Too many people have the attitude that if one is disagreeing with them one is also disrespecting them. Usually not so.

Another one is accept that people can disagree with you. I have seen many who think that if they say something enough times in enough different ways, the person with the opposing view will finally 'get it'. No. They simply do not agree.

Finally, to quote a waaaay overused movie line "Why so serious!" People need to lighten up. Nothing we type here matters one whit in the grand scheme of things. (This is the one I all too frequently forget!)

 

[A Cup Of Tea]

In South Asian traditions, the state of being trapped in the illusory belief that one is the ego is known as maya or samsara. In psychology, 'Ego' is presumed as one of the three parts of psychic apparatus defined by Sigmund Freud's structural model. It is also defined by various religions across the world where slight differences also occur in their conceptions. Hinduism and Buddhism have least differences in defining various psychological terms such as self, ego, soul, etc.

This is from wikipedia

 

[Namaste Jesus]

Ego is another word for 'self' and surely where matters of faith are concerned it is how each person feels about the topic that should matter to them, and how it affects them and their interaction with others. I would never relinquish my feeling of self as it makes me me.

Achieving Dharma is not about giving up self. It's about giving up selfishness and considering the feeling of others before your own.

As I said, that's easier said then done, as people seldom return the favor.

 

[Quirkybird]

Achieving Dharma is not about giving up self. It's about giving up selfishness and considering the feeling of others before your own.

As I said, that's easier said then done, as people seldom return the favor.

Whilst it is good to consider the feelings of others, one shouldn't always put others first, even if one does it most of the time. I have a relative who NEVER does anything for herself at all, which is silly, imo.