Re: Trinity & Trimurti part two
Indeed. It's also Paul that has the most part to say about mans' tripartite nature.
I realize you may not `subscribe,' but I recommend Temple Teachings, if you enjoy Paul. The author is Hilarion [Illarion] ... who was one of Theosphy's earliest contributing Mahatmas. From Spiritualism and Christian Science, the earlier of which He inspired, the latter which bore his influence - yet took its own path ... this Master has fostered many scientific advances.
One of the volumes of Temple Teachings (which can be found online) contains many lessons with continuity, as if 2100 years have not passed, and as if we were still sitting amidst an olive grove somewhere, perhaps 20 years from a Crucifixion which did not occur - in a world where Humanity had accepted it's Redeemer. Some of the lessons explain much that has become thoroughly garbled and confused in modern Christianity - of every branch and demon, I mean, denomination.
Anyway, Iamblichus was St. Paul's subsequent incarnation ... or one of them. The ones prior to Saul of Tarsus are unknown to me, yet if they turn out to be other identities familiar to Biblical scholars, I won't be surprised. Master Hilarion's portrait - as a young, shaven man - can be found at Alpheus.org ... under `Nine Portraits' [David Anrias]. It was this Mahatma who appeared to Blavatsky and Olcott in New York City, at the `Lamasery' (which I have seen and photographed, formerly a hotel, now ... ?) - and in two places at once - with Ooton Liatto, whomever that was. Both of these Initiates bilocated, which astounded Olcott, but did not surprise HPB in the least. She simply insisted that Olcott keep it hush-hush, as she did not wish the afternoon to draw attention to her as a medium. Hilarion was described by Olcott as a "swarthy Cypriote," and indeed, another Master tells that he is in a Cretan body.
Thomas said:
That may we be your understanding. I would beg to differ. Scripture says something else altogether.
...
So Christ is before all, above all, etc.
Christ expresses, embodies, the 2nd Person above all. This should be kept clear, or you really aren't expressing Christian beliefs, exoteric or esoteric. When he refers to being "one with the Father," he means the Monad, our `First and Highest Princple,' which is itself no `principle' at all, but rather is the `spark incarnate' ... into a Sevenfold Entity, reflecting the Trinity itself which is also so `Incarnate.' This is Hermetic, the `As Above, So Below.'
This is why he was able to say, "When you look upon me, you see the Father." It is easy to misunderstand what this means. The real point is, WITHOUT the Monad, none of us would be here. No stones, no plants, no animals, no people, no angels, no gods, no planetaries and no stars. Not even God would exist - since God IS this `Monad,' either with respect to dwellers upon a planet, or on the Solar scale of being, or even in terms of Cosmic evolution. Since all proceeds from the Cosmic into denser expressions of the One Life, we should never really be confused about the `Who' - in Whom *we" live, move, have our being. It is the One Ray, then Three Rays, then Seven, having literally taken incarnation and pervaded all of Cosmos.
The 3rd Aspect may be thought of as having set up the FIELD of Cosmic evolution, and this Christians term `Creation.' Yet it was the 2nd wave, the 2nd Logos which acted to literally ensoul the empty Creation. True, Creation can be said to be `ALIVE,' and this some have termed PAN-THEISM, accordingly. The 2nd Logos simply means, of course, Logos acting via the 2nd Person ... and so we have Pan-en-Theism.
Yet a First Logos, or Logos acting as the Destroyer, removes the barriers and obstacles between God and man, obviously in successive stages. As this gradually occurs, it is Man who is learning to correctly employ Divine Principles, Powers, energies and agencies ... to Liberated HIMSELF. Buddha taught this. Christ taught this. And unless we help ourselves, praying to God is useless. The Bible says so. And we, of course, also learn it.
Naturally, evolution provides assistance for all evolving ensouled entities (or Group Souls, and later Groups - with Individuals in between, so to speak). No prayer goes unanswered, no cry for help ignored, and every Noble act meets with a tremendous measure of corresponding, uplifting energy or assistance. Goethe reminds us of this ...
Thomas said:
Indeed so, but I'm suggesting it's an error to assume that the Trinity revealed in the Christian Scriptures is just another modality or variation of what their triunes is seeking to express.
I say you're dead wrong, unless you care to qualify and explain what you mean. You can pray to the flying spaghetti monster, and say it's threefold. That's fine. But you can't steal God - even if you think you can - and prop him up over in another corner and re-invent him. That's not what Christ did. That's not what Buddha did. They came to reform, to explain, and to show us how to connect the dots. They did not even connect the dots for us, although people think that's what they did. And they did not request prayer ... except to God, and Christ even taught us how to do that. It was not instructed for us to pray TO him. There is, however, a reminder ... from Christ Himself ... about the vanity of altar calls and `loud, boasting prayer.' Such nonsense, the attention given, is its own reward.
I do want to know what you mean when you say that the Christian Trinity is not `just another trinity.' It is understood differently, and applies to a different people, another time period, than earlier expressions - or presentations. That's obvious. It has different objectives, in terms of how to help the people of 2100 years ago. Most of the heart of the Gospel is still as relevant today as it was 2100 years ago, of course ...
... yet I believe our goal is to seek, then find, then observe [practice] the continuity between Christian Teachings, earlier teachings, and more modern - updated Teachings. Without this continuity, we are stuck, locked into an earlier timeframe, when even the same messages as are relevant today, were taught and expressed in another manner entirely. They would be fine, if we understood them as they were presented, AND we lived 2100 years ago. But the world has moved on. And we cannot go back. We cannot return. We cannot `START OVER' and try again, to get it right. That's the problem with living in the past. It may make a good Jethro Tull song, but it's not what the Christ desires of us. And sadly, many people don't grasp this at all.
They have not gone unnoticed, or unanswered, however. And some of the same Great Ones as were Initiates and Disciples of the Christ and Buddha have already given out segments of a New Dispensation ... which are intended to instruct Disciples, as well as spiritual aspirants, for generations to come. There are many levels of interpretation, and some of these teachings are sufficient for even the most senior of Initiates, given the nature of their source. They are projects requested by, and thus sanctioned and `sent forth' by, the Christ ... in Loving Service to and for ALL of Humanity. They are not, and were not meant for `a select few,' any more the teachings of 2100 years. But 2100 years ago, the world was much smaller, so to speak, and thus Christ came to the Jewish people, overshadowing Jesus ... whereas today He comes to his people everywhere, since our world is much `larger' today.
Taijasi said:
So, I would say these terms are relevant for us all, because each of us is a Soul, a child of God, and we are incarnate in the lower mind, plus emotional-astral body, which together form our ego, ensheathed in etheric physical substance - or the model body which gives our outer appearance, this itself enclosed in the dense body ...
Thomas said:
They're relevant if that's your thing, if it's not, they're not.
My view, the further we are from simplicity, the further we are from the Real.
Well, one can deny the existence of emotions, mind, a soul, etc. But that's just plain ignorant ... or rather, reveals one's nescience. It shows we have something left to learn. Or else, we are in denial. I do not suggest that the above understanding is the ultimate. Once we have become at-one with the Soul, we increasingly learn to serve from the level of the Soul, with greater expertise, increased potential ... and of course, with unconditional Love. We fulfill the call which the Soul, the Christ within, has issued forth, and we enter the Initiatory Path.
Thus, I would say - we transcend the personality, inasmuch as it becomes merely the instrument of Service, while we ourselves act from the Soul plane downward, or outward. We are detached from results, and focused solely upon causes. We are not yet perfect, and make many mistakes, but we learn from them without getting bogged down. We refine our methodology, learn to integrate more completely with the Group (our Service Group), and we draw closer to the Goal. It will look slightly different for each person, each soul, and depending upon which stage of the Path we are on. Yet all of this has been described, by and to the ancients, as well as by and to the disciples and initiates of today. Never has there been a `gap' in the Teaching, in the thread of Hierarchical tutelage ... although many dark ages can be said to have delayed our progress. Never has the Path been barred, and still the Way remains open for all who seek and prepare themselves to tread it.
The sad part is, some religions have tried to co-opt the Gospel itself, to not only adopt the Teachings of the Great Ones and apply them, but to claim exclusivity. They thereby shut themselves out from further Revelation, and even their existing secrets become corrupted and untrustworthy, for they abuse the role and the power which they were originally given. This, in my finding, is the story of modern Christianity, if we trace its devolution backwards to its source. In the mirror of time, seeing in reverse, will see it rise, strengthen, and grow directly into, because it is from - Christ's Heart ...
Has Christianity written itself out of the world's future, entirely? No, I do not believe so. The Master Jesus, and several others, including many of the Angels and Angelic Teachers continue to work predominantly in the West, to help prepare for the Reappearance of the Christ. There may be little or no time for such exchanges as these, on an online forum, as the Work intensifies. Time will tell ... but 2025 remains an important date!
Taijasi said:
If it did not exist first with God, it could not exist in expression with us.
Thomas said:
At last, you've got it! How many times I've said that here, I've lost count. But that's the only Trinity we're interested in, as that Trinity determines all subsequent triunes.
I'll post an excerpt from the Codex Nazarenus, or from an explanation of the sublest, most sublime of three Trinities. We can certainly say that this is the most important, but this is a bit like saying that the forming of Earth's molten surface into a solid mantle and crust is the "most important" part of geology. I would not disagree, but I am interested in the present. Likewise, since the highest Trinity is as beyond us as the farthest galaxy in the farthest galactic supercluster, I think it's a bit pointless to talk about it.
Or ... if not, what do we profit? It's a serious question, and on this may hinge much, since it seems to me you believe we somehow stand something to gain. My point is, you aren't in touch with it. You won't be, until a much, much later stage of evolution. This is by design, and by definition, and arguing otherwise only demonstrates some serious degree of confusion.
Here again, I think we are not on the same page. I am almost sure of it, but I will leave it to you to address the problem, and see if maybe I've made a mistake, a wrong assumption, or perhaps have confusion of my own about what you're indicating ...
Thomas said:
We don't do any of that stuff. For us there is just The Logos of God.
Maybe. But we bypass all that. God is Immanently Present, everywhere, always – were we only to see – we regard 'emanationism' as veils that occlude the vision. Those 'with the eyes to see', as it were, sees straight through them.
It's good to know that there are later stages of the path than we are on. Wishing you were at the end, does not make it so. Live in the present, be authentic [from another thread], LIVE authentically - with honesty, integrity and of course, commitment to your own spiritual path.
Not much more to say about it than that. And being comfortable with having taken refuge in the Tipitaka ... Buddhist or not [for there is the equivalent] ... yes, all that I dig.
Otherwise, we may certainly delude ourselves and even tell all our friends that we are `enlightened' or - as the Christians seem to put it, `saved.' We are certainly beyond the danger of avichi-hell after Arhatship, the 4th, Renunciation [Crucifixion] Initiation. And Asekha Adeptship bridges us onto the Way of Higher evolution at the following, Sixth Initiation ... now required of all human beings.
Until one is ready for traveling the Path consciously and with the determination to complete one's own Earthly evolution, I agree that some of this may be beyond us, and superfluous information. Yet the Mystery Schools taught it for a reason, and the currently forming esoteric schools also instruct students with the assumption that they will prepare themselves to tread the path of Aspiration to Discipleship, all the way to Initiation and even Highest Perfection. Thus, we do pursue the path of enlightenment, as did the Christ and Buddha.
One finds this to be true, in one's own way, at the appropriate time, and in the appropriate company ... pretty much no matter what. It is useless to argue it when another person is not ready, or has heels dug in, or has some kind of agenda of one's own. It can even be harmful to make insistences, since this was certainly not the way our own Teacher, or Guru [if we have one] taught us, and helped us in our times of darkness.
