Ask a Theistic Luciferian

[Greyson Black]

I follow my religion because the Creator made the religion so that we could all coexist and thrive. The religion specified protects the rights of all men and women and keeps an order that is required for civilization to be maintained without succumbing to the disaster that come after sin. Although the real, underlying reason is because The Creator told us to. which leads to the next question.

You follow your religion because it orders civilization. Okay.

Of course, and you don't need "your" as I (and many other monotheists) believe there is only one, so there is no difference in my god and your god, etc, unless we are discussing mono vs poly thoughts.

Okay, I tend to call my Lord a "god". I also do not really desire to credit the god you worship with mine, nor do I wish to proclaim any glory to that god or the Creator.

Because without him I was never. Without God there was no creation, there wasn't even an existence. When he created this existence and on down to his creation of me, He did something special. He allowed me to "be". I owe everything to him and he asks for a small payment which in turn makes my "be"ing easier. The small payment, is obedience to his law.

Because you exist and without Creator, you would not exist. You are thankful for your existence.

So as a Theistic Luciferian, is this God I speak of (aka The Creator, YHWH, Elohim, Allah, etc.) the Same God that created Lucifer?

The Creator created all things, including Lucifer.

Is Lucifer not but a creation who was disobedient, and from which is certain a future eternity in Hell?

So it is written in Biblical scripture.

Is Lucifer even remotely powerful next to the Creator?

You can not compare Lucifer to God.

What can he possibly offer you that the Creator cannot, or for that matter what can he offer you that is a benefit?

Temporary pleasures and knowledge. Are either beneficial beyond this Earth? No.

I want to be clear, I'm not trying to knock your beliefs, it is just your entity of "worship" is the entity warned about in 3 revelations of God. And I cannot fathom how one would choose to follow the lesser creation when the greater creator offers so much greater reward.

Rewards are enjoyable enough. However, I follow Lucifer because I gave Him my word that I would thirteen years ago. Whether He deceives, although He has not done so ever since He revealed Himself to me, is irrelevant. I am as the man who follows His King, even through a war I suspect will be lost, and a war which is written will be lost. It does not matter to me that my King is a creation, or that I get the opposite of reward in the end. It only matters that I keep my word. You see, I am prideful and my word is my law and my honor, and I will not turn away from my honor.

For thirteen years, I followed false images of the Lord I now have come to know. I was as the child staring in awe at something he did not understand, mired away in false beliefs until the King decided to call them forward. As the child, I saw the King as impersonal, without a creator and powerful. In fact, the King was the equal to the Creator, just on the side of destruction.

The King then called the child forward and revealed His face, explaining to the child they could leave and go another way if they so desired. The child then advanced into the stage of the adolescent, seeing the face of the one they had admired, yet barely ever understood. The adolescent decided to stay. The King then showed the adolescent everything, even the King's own end, as well as the adolescent's, and asked again if they should remain. Once the adolescent decided to remain, despite their deception, they matured into the young adult.

I am now as the man who walks in full knowledge of my King. This is my honor and I can only hope I should have such courage as to walk into eternity, rather than be dragged there.

 

[Devils' Advocate]

Am I to understand that you believe Satan you worship is the Satan of the Bible, with all that that means. And that you chose to continue following him because you promised to do so and you are honor bound to do so? If I am reading what you wrote correctly you do not think Satan is worth following but you do so anyway because of your honor. And the temporary pleasures of your mortal existence.

If I am quoting you correctly - well that is the strangest reasoning behind god worship I think I have ever read. And I have read many real whoppers. I'm not judging here. Seriously I'm not. I do not understand though. I do not understand this at all.

 

[wil]

I thought luciferians didn't worship Satan but the ideals he represented?

 

[Greyson Black]

I thought luciferians didn't worship Satan but the ideals he represented?

LaVeyans or (Atheist) types.

 

[Greyson Black]

Am I to understand that you believe Satan you worship is the Satan of the Bible, with all that that means. And that you chose to continue following him because you promised to do so and you are honor bound to do so? If I am reading what you wrote correctly you do not think Satan is worth following but you do so anyway because of your honor. And the temporary pleasures of your mortal existence.

Yes.

I also love Him and do believe He is worth following. However, that just sounds cheesy.

If I am quoting you correctly - well that is the strangest reasoning behind god worship I think I have ever read. And I have read many real whoppers. I'm not judging here. Seriously I'm not. I do not understand though. I do not understand this at all.

Do not worry about it.

 

[wil]

[QUOTE="Greyson Black]
Do not worry about it.[/QUOTE]
But he is inquiring....you don't want to fulfill the title if your thread?

 

[wil]

LaVeyans or (Atheist) types.

What are the major differences?

 

[Greyson Black]

What are the major differences?

LaVeyans (Atheistic Satanists) or (Atheistic Luciferians) are ATHEISTS. There are generally philosophical differences also.

 

[Greyson Black]

[QUOTE="Greyson Black]
Do not worry about it.

But he is inquiring....you don't want to fulfill the title if your thread?[/QUOTE]

It is not my thread and I have shared what I have selected to. If there are other questions, they can be asked.

 

[Devils' Advocate]

Do not worry about it.

Oh I'm not. It is just intriguing to me as one of the reasons I am on this site is to get a handle on why different people worship different deities. Why they have chosen the ones they have chosen. What they see in the ones they have chosen that made them decide to follow that deity. As most of the longtime members know, I am a deist myself; I don't believe in the existence of gods of any kind.

About the LaVeyans - still a little confused. You are saying you are not LaVeyan, is that correct? That they are the ones who tend towards an atheistic form of Satan worship. You however worship what you believe to be an actual deity. (Or whatever he is in the Christian pantheon, which I have never understood completely either).

My limited understanding of those who worship Lucifer tend to see him as an adversarial entity to God, but not an evil entity. That Lucifer is doing God's work by challenging man. In this way, he is part of the process, not against the process as he would be seen in a more Christian point of view.

If I understand you correctly, and I will not be surprised if I got this wrong, you would not agree with that last paragraph. You worship the Christian version of Satan, who is the opposite of God in all things. Good versus Evil, Light versus Dark, Honesty versus Trickery, etc.

Yes? No? Maybe?

 

[Greyson Black]

About the LaVeyans - still a little confused. You are saying you are not LaVeyan, is that correct? That they are the ones who tend towards an atheistic form of Satan worship. You however worship what you believe to be an actual deity. (Or whatever he is in the Christian pantheon, which I have never understood completely either).

I am not LaVeyan. I am a Theist.

My limited understanding of those who worship Lucifer tend to see him as an adversarial entity to God, but not an evil entity. That Lucifer is doing God's work by challenging man. In this way, he is part of the process, not against the process as he would be seen in a more Christian point of view.

If I understand you correctly, and I will not be surprised if I got this wrong, you would not agree with that last paragraph. You worship the Christian version of Satan, who is the opposite of God in all things. Good versus Evil, Light versus Dark, Honesty versus Trickery, etc.
Yes? No? Maybe?

A heart which lacks good becomes evil. In scripture, good is defined as "towb" (טוֹב) in Hebrew and "kalos" (καλός) In Greek. In Hebrew, "good" refers to: good, pleasant, (agreeable). In Greek, "good" refers to: beautiful, handsome, excellent, eminent, surpassing, precious, useful, suitable, commendable, admirable (and) genuine, (approved).

From this, "good" is in essence and context that which is agreeable to God. What then is "evil"? Evil logically refers to the opposite of what God is agreeable to. If I proclaim myself to be evil, what exactly am I saying, short of sounding like an angst ridden adolescent who hates their parents and sacrifices pets or babies to Satan? Am I saying that I am a serial killer? I will make it clear that I do not condone illegal activity. What then am I saying if I proclaim, "I am evil." or, "I do evil", or, "my heart is evil."?

Simply put, and take this philosophically:

Jhn 8:44: Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

 

[CorusVonDrae]

....reading the above comment, Consider the Source. Luciferians by nature are rebels.

I call my story "The proof is in the Pudding".
I apologize if I mis-type, but tears keep getting in the way. Mine is the example of the Christian God not wanting me, after putting years and years of trust into him... I tried to love God and Jesus, but ...it wasn't meant to be.
I don't know if you have ever heard of anyone telling you that hey were rejected by God, but I was. I have proof. I swear on everything what I hold sacred and honest is the truth. This is what the Christian God and Jesus did to me....

I wanted Him, but... year after year, and decade after decade..... I finally had to renounce Jesus just to stay alive. Literally. The more I Worshipped Jesus as my Saviour, ...jeez, it kept going from bad to worse... the worst luck in the history of luck. For example.... Has your 747 jet ever caught fire over the Pacific and almost blown up ? Mine has. Has a business partner ever forged your signature and stolen $250,000 from you ? Mine has. Has a business partner ever embezzled $138,000 from you - And is now on an International watch list ?

Oh yeah....This is just the start. I've been hit - in my car, while STOPPED at traffic lights, 4 times. Now I have a back injury that will hurt me every minute of every day for the rest of my life, and no compensation from the person that was texting. I am not kidding.... the more i went to Church, the more my life went to hell. I tried to deny it for many years, but it became evident.... Jesus was out to get me. And God did not want me in any of his Churches.

Where is God. Where is Jesus ? I know about the book of Job. Job had it easy in my eyes. Because for 30 or 40 years , Job had a family and was allowed to prosper. I have only lived a life of struggle, coming from a dis-functional family by absent abusive, and I have no children. Job was tested. I'm being tortured. My family name ends with me, unless I can find somebody to adopt and inherit the 18 million I have inherited.

Listen here, before you judge... I was raised Christian.
My life got worse and worse the more I went to the Christian Church. I should have gotten the hint early on, when the other kids threw rocks at me... several times, because "I didn't belong". I was at St. Philips' Church. The Largest and richest Episcopalian Church in the U.S. It is located in Atlanta, Ga. It is a Beautiful Cathedral modeled after Notre Dame. I love it. It's beautiful. Mom and Dad did OK , and so did my brothers, but I was the "Black Sheep". Apparently.
But I can't step foot in that place again, because God will send another disaster my way.

"God, Dude, what am I the Anti-Christ ?" I think I must be.

The Occult and Wicca kind of saved me in a way. The Wicca, Witchcraft, and Sorcery, led me on a path that eventually took me to Luciferianism, and to a point where I can literally change things, events, through manipulation of energy.

I have been practicing energy manipulation for about 17 years. I can create money over night, I can can create job opportunity overnight.

I work with but do not "Worship" Lucifer or any of the fallen ones. They are just "Angels". They serve God and Man. As Lucifer is an Angel, he is subject to the Laws of the Creator and also MAN. Don't let a fallen angel trick you into "worshipping him". Working with him is OK, but Our souls are superior to that of Angels. Fallen or not.

Human Spirit is superior to everything except the Creator. Remember this.

Angels, Demons, Jinn, and all the rest are subject to a Human power. It goes from Creator - to Us - to angels and other spirits, good and bad. If you speak to them with authority and command...all the Angels and all the Demons of every plane are under your command.

Hope this helps ...
CORUS

 

[EdgyDolmen]

Changed my mind. Deleted...

 

[wil]

I find the concept that you can avoid plane issues, accidents, embezzlement etc... By prayer to Jesus, or G!d...to be a problem...

I also think that someone who has inherited 18 million dollars is often a target of ne'er do wells trying to take advantage of them, and focusing on weaknesses like certain beliefs and or lack of faith...

I tell you, your working with Lucifer to create money overnight (18 million dollars often does that) does not preclude me from saying...

I'm adoptable

 

[BigJoeNobody]

....reading the above comment, Consider the Source. Luciferians by nature are rebels.

I call my story "The proof is in the Pudding".
I apologize if I mis-type, but tears keep getting in the way. Mine is the example of the Christian God not wanting me, after putting years and years of trust into him... I tried to love God and Jesus, but ...it wasn't meant to be.
I don't know if you have ever heard of anyone telling you that hey were rejected by God, but I was. I have proof. I swear on everything what I hold sacred and honest is the truth. This is what the Christian God and Jesus did to me....

I wanted Him, but... year after year, and decade after decade..... I finally had to renounce Jesus just to stay alive. Literally. The more I Worshipped Jesus as my Saviour, ...jeez, it kept going from bad to worse... the worst luck in the history of luck. For example.... Has your 747 jet ever caught fire over the Pacific and almost blown up ? Mine has. Has a business partner ever forged your signature and stolen $250,000 from you ? Mine has. Has a business partner ever embezzled $138,000 from you - And is now on an International watch list ?

Oh yeah....This is just the fucking start. I've been hit - in my car, while STOPPED at traffic lights, 4 fucking times. Now I have a back injury that will hurt me every minute of every day for the rest of my life, and no compensation from the bitch that was texting. I am not fucking kidding.... the more i went to Church, the more my life went to hell. I tried to deny it for many years, but it became evident.... Jesus was out to get me. And God did not want me in any of his Churches.

Where is God. Where is Jesus ? I know about the book of Job. Job had it easy in my eyes. Because for 30 or 40 years , Job had a family and was allowed to prosper. I have only lived a life of struggle, coming from a dis-functional family by absent abusive, and I have no children. So fuck God and fuck Jesus. Job was tested. I'm being tortured. My family name ends with me, unless I can find somebody to adopt and inherit the 18 million I have inherited.

Listen here, before you judge... I was raised Christian.
My life got worse and worse the more I went to the Christian Church. I should have gotten the hint early on, when the other kids threw rocks at me... several times, because "I didn't belong". I was at St. Philips' Church. The Largest and richest Episcopalian Church in the U.S. It is located in Atlanta, Ga. It is a Beautiful Cathedral modeled after Notre Dame. I love it. It's beautiful. Mom and Dad did OK , and so did my brothers, but I was the "Black Sheep". Apparently.
But I can't step foot in that place again, because God will send another disaster my way.

"God, Dude, what am I the fucking Anti-Christ ?" I think I must be.

The Occult and Wicca kind of saved me in a way. The Wicca, Witchcraft, and Sorcery, led me on a path that eventually took me to Luciferianism, and to a point where I can literally change things, events, through manipulation of energy.

I have been practicing energy manipulation for about 17 years. I can create money over night, I can can create job opportunity overnight.

I work with but do not "Worship" Lucifer or any of the fallen ones. They are just "Angels". They serve God and Man. As Lucifer is an Angel, he is subject to the Laws of the Creator and also MAN. Don't let a fallen angel trick you into "worshipping him". Working with him is OK, but Our souls are superior to that of Angels. Fallen or not.

Human Spirit is superior to everything except the Creator. Remember this.

Angels, Demons, Jinn, and all the rest are subject to a Human power. It goes from Creator - to Us - to angels and other spirits, good and bad. If you speak to them with authority and command...all the Angels and all the Demons of every plane are under your command.

Hope this helps ...
CORUS

I find you conclusions interesting, From an Islamic standpoint (and partially a Christian one), I would say those "unfortunate events" that led you to think God hated you, is just incorrect in the least. Let me speak from an Islamic standpoint and please just take this as me explaining how I interpret it, not as saying your interpretation as wrong. All those events we call tests. The grade is not if you come out or not, but rather that you have faith that God (or Allah as we call him) knows what is best and that his will will be done. Your obedience is what will be rewarded. Your story follows that of many people from biblical/Quranic sources. The difference is you chose to embrace Lucifer (Shaytan) when he told you that you have power over something. You are merely a man (assuming) with no power over another man, nor angel, nor Djinn. Only Allah has Dominion over all. you could buy a small army with your money, find me, torture me, but at the end of the day only Allah chooses whether I live or die, and you have no power to change the outcome from his choosing, nor change by belief. Allah doesn't hate you, He is testing you, and with that kind of money at your disposal, it is possible you aren't living a subservient life, to which you may be punished in this life and hereafter. But only by Allah's will can that happen.

Again, this is just how I see the situation differently. It is of great pain to me to see that Shaytan has embraced you as a partner, but you are the only one who has that choice to embrace him back.

 

[StevePame]

....reading the above comment, Consider the Source. Luciferians by nature are rebels.

I call my story "The proof is in the Pudding".
I apologize if I mis-type, but tears keep getting in the way. Mine is the example of the Christian God not wanting me, after putting years and years of trust into him... I tried to love God and Jesus, but ...it wasn't meant to be.
I don't know if you have ever heard of anyone telling you that hey were rejected by God, but I was. I have proof. I swear on everything what I hold sacred and honest is the truth. This is what the Christian God and Jesus did to me....

I wanted Him, but... year after year, and decade after decade..... I finally had to renounce Jesus just to stay alive. Literally. The more I Worshipped Jesus as my Saviour, ...jeez, it kept going from bad to worse... the worst luck in the history of luck. For example.... Has your 747 jet ever caught fire over the Pacific and almost blown up ? Mine has. Has a business partner ever forged your signature and stolen $250,000 from you ? Mine has. Has a business partner ever embezzled $138,000 from you - And is now on an International watch list ?

Oh yeah....This is just the fucking start. I've been hit - in my car, while STOPPED at traffic lights, 4 fucking times. Now I have a back injury that will hurt me every minute of every day for the rest of my life, and no compensation from the bitch that was texting. I am not fucking kidding.... the more i went to Church, the more my life went to hell. I tried to deny it for many years, but it became evident.... Jesus was out to get me. And God did not want me in any of his Churches.

Where is God. Where is Jesus ? I know about the book of Job. Job had it easy in my eyes. Because for 30 or 40 years , Job had a family and was allowed to prosper. I have only lived a life of struggle, coming from a dis-functional family by absent abusive, and I have no children. So fuck God and fuck Jesus. Job was tested. I'm being tortured. My family name ends with me, unless I can find somebody to adopt and inherit the 18 million I have inherited.

Listen here, before you judge... I was raised Christian.
My life got worse and worse the more I went to the Christian Church. I should have gotten the hint early on, when the other kids threw rocks at me... several times, because "I didn't belong". I was at St. Philips' Church. The Largest and richest Episcopalian Church in the U.S. It is located in Atlanta, Ga. It is a Beautiful Cathedral modeled after Notre Dame. I love it. It's beautiful. Mom and Dad did OK , and so did my brothers, but I was the "Black Sheep". Apparently.
But I can't step foot in that place again, because God will send another disaster my way.

"God, Dude, what am I the fucking Anti-Christ ?" I think I must be.

The Occult and Wicca kind of saved me in a way. The Wicca, Witchcraft, and Sorcery, led me on a path that eventually took me to Luciferianism, and to a point where I can literally change things, events, through manipulation of energy.

I have been practicing energy manipulation for about 17 years. I can create money over night, I can can create job opportunity overnight.

I work with but do not "Worship" Lucifer or any of the fallen ones. They are just "Angels". They serve God and Man. As Lucifer is an Angel, he is subject to the Laws of the Creator and also MAN. Don't let a fallen angel trick you into "worshipping him". Working with him is OK, but Our souls are superior to that of Angels. Fallen or not.

Human Spirit is superior to everything except the Creator. Remember this.

Angels, Demons, Jinn, and all the rest are subject to a Human power. It goes from Creator - to Us - to angels and other spirits, good and bad. If you speak to them with authority and command...all the Angels and all the Demons of every plane are under your command.

Hope this helps ...
CORUS

Interesting thoughts. Thanks for sharing and welcome to IO.

As you're new to the community, I'll point out that we have rules about the use of certain language on this forum. Please review the code of conduct and limit your swearing. Thanks.

 

[Ava.Morningstar]

The bible has been ripped apart and put back together to fit political needs over time.

In the Secret Book of John there is a different story of creation. In it the creator of our world is also a created being and not a very good one at that. If someone is truly interested, I would suggest reading it.

I recognize that Lucifer is a created being like myself but the god of the bible is also created. There is an all that is unknowable, once you think you know it, that cannot be it, since it is unknowable.

I choose to follow Lucifer because he represents knowledge and equality to me. I believe we(all of creation)are all equally divine. I also believe that there are infinite universes and realities. Given that, all things are both true and false. So choose what you want. ☺

 

[Kelli J White]

My husband became Luciferian about 6 months before he died. I myself consider myself more Satanist than anything, however I struggled with his sudden and inexplicable (apparent) OBSESSION/fixation with Luciferianism, black metal (Behemoth, etc) and demons. Down here in Georgia, such topics are VERY hushed and taboo. I was extremely offended when his funeral (which I allowed his family to pretty much organize) essentially turned into a church sermon with Bible readings by a stranger... He would have hated it but his (VERY Christian) family seemed to need it so I allowed it to happen (and regret it very much).

Anyway, my question is something no one can answer, but I would very much appreciate an honest speculation from a Luciferian: In your opinion, what is death? Do Luciferians believe in Heaven/Hell and do they "go to Hell"? If not, is there an afterlife for Luciferians and what is it?... Also, is there anything I can do posthumously to show respect for his beliefs (after a funeral which did NOT at all)?

FYI: I don't believe my husband was specifically "theistic Luciferian," he was more agnostic than anything. Also, he died from an apparent heroin overdose.

Thank you very much for any and all perspective/opinions/etc you can give.

 

[Ava.Morningstar]

My husband became Luciferian about 6 months before he died. I myself consider myself more Satanist than anything, however I struggled with his sudden and inexplicable (apparent) OBSESSION/fixation with Luciferianism, black metal (Behemoth, etc) and demons. Down here in Georgia, such topics are VERY hushed and taboo. I was extremely offended when his funeral (which I allowed his family to pretty much organize) essentially turned into a church sermon with Bible readings by a stranger... He would have hated it but his (VERY Christian) family seemed to need it so I allowed it to happen (and regret it very much).

Anyway, my question is something no one can answer, but I would very much appreciate an honest speculation from a Luciferian: In your opinion, what is death? Do Luciferians believe in Heaven/Hell and do they "go to Hell"? If not, is there an afterlife for Luciferians and what is it?... Also, is there anything I can do posthumously to show respect for his beliefs (after a funeral which did NOT at all)?

FYI: I don't believe my husband was specifically "theistic Luciferian," he was more agnostic than anything. Also, he died from an apparent heroin overdose.

Thank you very much for any and all perspective/opinions/etc you can give.

Kelli, first let me express deepest sympathies. I lost my sister unexpectedly and I know how much pain comes with that.

I believe in reincarnation. Energy can only be transferred, not destroyed. I personally am working on ascension. Your husband being atheistic will most likely take birth again.

My sister was also an atheist and the funeral was also very religious. I do my own thing at home to honor her ( on her birthday, anniversary of her passing, favorite holiday etc) I would suggest you find something to do for him that you know he would appreciate.

By the way, hell is not real.... it was made up as a scare tactic to control people.

 

[Kelli J White]

Kelli, first let me express deepest sympathies. I lost my sister unexpectedly and I know how much pain comes with that.

I believe in reincarnation. Energy can only be transferred, not destroyed. I personally am working on ascension. Your husband being atheistic will most likely take birth again.

My sister was also an atheist and the funeral was also very religious. I do my own thing at home to honor her ( on her birthday, anniversary of her passing, favorite holiday etc) I would suggest you find something to do for him that you know he would appreciate.

By the way, hell is not real.... it was made up as a scare tactic to control people.

Thanks so much for your reply. Oh I don't believe in "Heaven/Hell" myself obviously, I just didn't know what other terminology to use. I must have a pretty good intuition about things because you pretty much just validated what I was already thinking anyway. We were EXTREMELY close and spent every moment together from the time we met until the time he died - we also did a soul binding ritual - so even with death separating us physically, I still have a strong connection to him.

It's funny you mention reincarnation, because when he and I met, it was as if we were being reacquainted. It was like we were never strangers, like we were just seeing a friend we'd just spoken with and picking up the conversation where we left of. It was the oddest, but most undeniable sense that we'd known each other before somehow.

Thanks again, you've given me a lot to think about.