The Establishment of the Minyan

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Shibolet

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The Establishment of the Minyan

Ten Jewish men in Sodom would have saved the city from destruction. That's what a Minyan is, a group of ten Jewish men.

And the Lord appeared to Abraham and reported to him that Sodom and Gomorrah were doomed for destruction and the following dialogue took place:

Abraham: Would you destroy the righteous with the wicked? Assuming there were 50 righteous in the city, would you still destroy the city?

HaShem: No, I would spare the place for the 50 righteous ones.

Abraham: What about 45, would you proceed with the destruction?

HaShem: No, for 45 I would save the city.

Abraham: Okay, 40 righteous, would you stop with the plan to destroy the city?

HaShem: Yes, I would.

Abraham: Now, if you don't mind me, 30 righteous, would the city be spared?

HaShem: Yes, I would forgive the city if I found 30 righteous in there.

Abraham: If I be so bold, what about 20? Would you still destroy the city?

HaShem: No, I wouldn't.

Abraham: Be not my Lord angry if I speak only this last time. Perhaps 10, only 10 righteous, would the Lord spare the city?

HaShem: If I find 10 righteous in the city, the city is saved. And the Jewish Minyan had been established. (Genesis 18:23-32)

What is by definition the righteous in the context of this dialogue between HaShem and Abraham, sinless people? No, thousands of children went up in the smoke and they were all sinless as they were not subject to the Law. Righteous in this text is by definition the righteous People whether were they to be sinless or not. The bottom line is that if there was a Minyan of 10 adult Jews in Sodom and Gomorrah those cities would not have been destroyed.

Jesus must have read the above dialogue and concluded that "Salvation really comes from the Jews." (John 4:22) Then, Prophet Jeremiah declared that as long as Israel remains as a People before the Lord forever, the natural laws will never cease functioning properly. (Jeremiah 31:35-37)
 
wil said:
That would be sinless....this is not what you said in the first post, hence my question.
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Righteous here within the context of the thread is every Jew male while taking part of a minyan.
 
wil said:
So ignore your response?
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Well, if you think my response was not a response, it doesn't make too much of a sense to ignore it. Since you bothered to post a reply whereas only to ask if you should ignore my response, it must have been a response after all. Why ignore it?
 
I ask because it countered your original statement....

You replied in agreement to your original statement again contradicting the response...

Hence I determined I should ignore it....you are now saying that you a contradiction?
 
wil said:
I ask because it countered your original statement....

You replied in agreement to your original statement again contradicting the response...

Hence I determined I should ignore it....you are now saying that you a contradiction?
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No, that's not a contradiction. Righteousness as Jews are concerned does not mean they must be looked at as a paragon of good behavior but as a People with a divine mission. When Jesus said that salvation is from the Jews, he did not distinguish a Jew from another but as the whole People. (John 4:22)
 
wil said:
color me confused... no contradiction?
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The Bible brings an explanation to that but I doubt if it will color you out of your confusion. I'll mention it anyway: What is sinful as the Gentiles is concerned is not subject to the same method of judgment applied to the Jewish People. Why do I say so? From Jeremiah 46:28 where we have that of the other nations the Lord will eventually get rid of them BUT of Israel He will only chastise us as we deserve. Before you charge this statement with being racist, remember, it is not mine but from a Biblical Prophet.
 
If some one writes "I'm not a racist, but..." it's a pretty clear indicator. Your argument that your not a racist is that your God is a racist...so basically own up to that: I'm a racist because my religion is based on the premise that my race is better then all other. I think that would be much better then what you're doing now.
 
Yes the bible was used repeatedly to maintain racism and slavery....and keeping women down...obey your husband bs...

evidently still used today....its biblical....
 
A Cup Of Tea said:
If some one writes "I'm not a racist, but..." it's a pretty clear indicator. Your argument that your not a racist is that your God is a racist...so basically own up to that: I'm a racist because my religion is based on the premise that my race is better then all other. I think that would be much better then what you're doing now.
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So, why don't you just pick your Bible and throw it into the fire? I cannot change what is written.
 
wil said:
Yes the bible was used repeatedly to maintain racism and slavery....and keeping women down...obey your husband bs...

evidently still used today....its biblical....
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Not the Tanach but the NT. Paul was the one who treated women that way.
 
No you see, I was discussing that the fact that you called yourself a non-racist, but said something very racist. That's the discussion.
 
I'm a Jew, by birth and by religion, and I find the equation Righteous=Jew deeply offensive. Look at the Jonah. That whole book is pretty much about non-Jews being more righteous than the Jewish title character.

The people of Sodom react to strangers in their town by wanting to rape them. That's very much not righteous, no matter what your religion or ethnicity.
 
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