Ultra-Orthodox Jews delay flight, refuse to sit next to women

lol Jews behaving badly....Jews Gone Wild...

Watch the videos so we can discuss... It appears to the layman that it isn't just Jews, but a group of Jews that self identify by their dress and actions....a group that if not policed by within will be policed from without due to their breaking laws.

The omer....your thoughts? I think Course in Miracles, Lenten practices, and 64 days of non violence all are omer like personal explorations and it (and they) worthy exercises for all.

The Shema...yeah, only twice a day if you don't have kids, or go in and out doors eh?
 
You know me ACOT, I bump heads until we can find common ground.

Dan perceived me to be something I am not...

Not to say once he gains a new perception he'll be any happier about it.
 
Leave the people alone. It is their religious right to decide who to sit next to. Same as Muslim men and women tend to not share spaces. Why do some people have an issue with that? I would switch seats with them if asked. No problem.
 
Why do I have an issue with certain religious folk forcing the rest of us to observe their beliefs in public. Because when in public one can not and should not expect one's individual beliefs to trump everyone else's beliefs. I am baffled why that simple statement is so hard for some people to accept.

Yes, in America, their is a constitutional right to freedom of religion. What is ignored by some religious people today is that with every right comes a responsibility not to abuse that right. The gun nuts are making the same blunder. Because one has the right to carry a semi-automatic rifle into a public grocery store, does NOT mean they should do so. A grocery store full of people from babies to the elderly, from all walks of life, is not the proper environment to be carrying a loaded rifle.

These problems exist because the few insist their 'right' gives them the freedom to trample everyone else's rights.
 
wil said:
reminds me of this somehow....

(...link to youtube video...)
Click to expand...

The title of that video is "Racist Lady on the Plane Won't Sit Next to Black Person"

Are you equating the gender-separation practices of Judaism and Islam to racism?
 
I take it you didn't watch the video....

I said it reminded me of the video....

I am not equating the two directly...

but I am saying the ones that should be inconvenienced are the ones standing in the aisle, holding up the plane, making a fuss...not those that have purchased their seats and are in their purchased seats.
 
Did you ever watch those other vids I posted...to ascertain if you support their methodology and actions while 'abiding' by their 'principles'?
 
wil said:
Did you ever watch those other vids I posted...to ascertain if you support their methodology and actions while 'abiding' by their 'principles'?
Click to expand...

Now you're back to judging religious groups based on your perceptions of the actions of some of their members.

If you have a specific question or comment about Judaism, please state it. I'll address it if I can. But I'm not going to respond to out of context news videos.
 
Again HELLOOOOOO

I am not...I am asking YOU what you think...specific questions regarding Judaism are for another thread...this thread is discussing the antics of this particular group of Jews...Jews which you seem embarrassed about yet support, it is an interesting dichotomy.
 
Which "particular group of Jews"? The ones on the El Al flight from New York to Tel-Aviv on September 23-24, 2014? (I think the flight number was LY 004, but am not sure, since I don't know how to access schedule information in the past.)
 
I give up. I have no idea what your agenda is, but I'm tired of trying to figure it out.
 
It is quite simple. It appears to me these folks and the Jews I know that these folks are not acting in a way that promotes respect for their religion...quite the opposite...they are making a mockery of the religion. But since you won't watch the videos to discuss them, to point out how the news is taking it out of context, to tell me why you think what they are doing is acceptable and correct.... we can't get anywhere in actual discussion.

I'm willing to be educated...are the videos doctored? Is this an ultra ultra orthodox group? Are these folks representative of the ultra orthodox...I don't know. We could take them one at a time and discuss the nuance and reason that you find this as normal religious behavior acceptable by G!d.
 
I think we're going around in circles. Maybe you should re-read my replies in this thread. If the answers to your questions are not there, I don't know what I can add that I haven't already said.
 
I haven't read every post in the thread, where the topic seems to be drifting somewhat. A quote from the NY Post article the OP cited is

Fredericks 9/26/14: “This is completely inconsiderate of the non-Haredi travelers. I don’t know many airlines that would allow their passengers to act like that,” fumed [a passenger].

El Al is an Israeli airline and its plane was aloft. However, on U.S. domestic flights, you give up priority standing for your religious preferences when you board a plane. The captain is the law while in flight, and is entitled to enforce flight rules for safety or passenger comfort. The flight crew or U.S. sky marshals (who do board random flights undercover) are likely to physically restrain passengers who won't leave the aisle if instructed to do so, possibly cuffing them into their seats. Then, they'll be arrested and face federal charges at the destination airport.

I support that policy. Those who can't agree to it shouldn't fly. :rolleyes:
 
Hatshepsut:

Considering that El Al is the primary airline of Israel, and Israel is nominally a "Jewish state", do you think that the airline should expend a reasonable effort to accomodate those Jews who wish to observe Jewish law and customs?
 
Gordian Knot said:
Because one has the right to carry a semi-automatic rifle into a public grocery store, does NOT mean they should do so...
Click to expand...

I don't think that's a right in the USA. A few states, including Texas, have what are called "open carry" laws, so maybe you can do that in Texas. But in Utah it would be illegal. And I agree with you that the "Texas Open Carry" bunch who picket restaurants and stores with their shotguns are pushing it a bit. :)

Dan0813 said:
Hatshepsut: Considering that El Al is the primary airline of Israel, and Israel is nominally a "Jewish state"...
Click to expand...

I'm sure they do make accommodations, for a fee. :)

Also, the U.S. laws I mentioned probably don't apply to them once they're airborne to Tel Aviv. The idea that the captain rules a ship or a plane is pretty much international, however. It's more dangerous than it looks. The body of a passenger standing in an aisle can become a lethal missile if the plane hits turbulence, a thing that's rare but can happen with no warning. And it's hard for me to see how the objecting passengers didn't foresee their seating problems. :rolleyes:
 
Jewish state? Interestingly enough Israel has some demographics issues.... the ultra orthodox vote their own way and are anti zionist for the most part...Jews not having as many kids, Arab population growing...won't be long before voting jews are outnumbered..

on another line.... spoke to some orthodox this weekend...Appalled at the actions on the plane and on their actions in Israel and elsewhere.... Society trumps Torah they told me it is a mitzvah to set religious rules aside to abide by the law and traditions of the land you choose to live in, be in.

And then found a Rabbi, who conquered....indicated they are not acting according to the commandments by their actions...and should not be supported.

So I finally found some jews who actually knew about it and were able to discuss it...Yay.
 
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