Aussie Thoughts
Just my 2 cents
I'll go along with that. As far as I know, there's nothing in the Bible to indicate Satan can read our thoughts. Quite the contrary when it comes to passages relating to God being able to do such though.
For Praying Out Loud!
- Thread starter Namaste Jesus
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The Bible is quite clear that only God can read the heart (1 Kings 8:39). What that has to do with praying in silence, I have no idea. Is he frightened of Satan hearing him pray ... or of his neighbour?
There is no better armour against the devil than prayer. He hates that. He can't stand it.
When man speaks to God in the Scriptures, he doesn't whisper, or project his thoughts, he speaks ...The Book of Job is an extended contemplation of the question of theodicy. It's clear the Adversary suspects he can make Job curse God, but he does not know ... and as it turns out, he's wrong.
Because God does know the heart, whether one prays in silence or aloud is immaterial. In fact, when it comes to knowledge of the heart, the Christian Tradition is quite clear that God reads in the heart that which goes beyond words.
It matters not to God, but it matters to us, and for the reasons posted above, praying aloud is then, for certain contingent and secondary reasons, in some ways the better way. There is a long esoteric tradition on this, and it also leads into areas such as the invocation of the Divine Name (or indeed, the invocation of evil spirits). The point being the term 'invoke' comes from the verb 'vocare' to call – and again there's a long tradition of the power of the spoken word over the thought word. Thought words have no substance, spoken words have being.
Prayer, like anything else, is something one gets better at the more one practices. And an accompanying physical practice embodies better and quicker than just mental practice.
When Christ says: "But thou when thou shalt pray, enter into thy chamber, and having shut the door, pray to thy Father in secret" (Matthew 6:6), it does not necessarily mean pray in silence – indeed one can pray in silence anywhere – esoteric instruction aside, the advice to 'enter into thy chamber' is to remove oneself from earshot. When Christ prays in Scripture, He prays aloud. I can't think of anywhere in Scripture where the person prays 'in his/her head'.
Satan is not omniscient. According to an ancient Christian tradition, there are three 'mysteries ... accomplished in the silence of God' of which Old Nick was unaware. But again, according to Scripture, Satan and his minions were in no doubt as to Christ's true identity – it's they who address Him as 'the Son of God' and not in any metaphorical sense.
Whilst Satan cannot read the mind, he can read human nature – he's had enough practice – and he knows weakness, because he himself is weak. and he sees with a spiritual sense, so more astute than our fallible physical senses.
The flaws we see in others, we see because they are our flaws ... one of the most powerful life lessons I've ever learned.
He knows how to play humans. The Traditions are full of stories, it's by the the little things that he gains entry, and once he's in, he's in. They're there in Christian teachings, and the Buddhist story of the monk trapped by demons and faced with three sins, each one worse than the one before. The monk chooses the least sin, but then goes on to commit all three. The moral of the story is there is no such thing as a little sin, and Old Nick uses the little ones to open the way to the big ones.
The Greeks call this logismoi in their spiritual psychology.
So no ... he cannot read our thoughts, but he can read human nature like an open book.
There's a story about Old Nick sending three young demons to tempt a hermit called Antony. For days they try. The rot his food and foul his water so he hungers and thirsts. They parade visions and temptations passed the old man, but he stands resolutely against them. They try every weapon, to no avail ... Eventually they go back and admit there's nothing they can do, Antony is too strong.
'Idiots', says Old Nick. 'Watch'.
He turns up at the old hermit's hut in the guise of a traveller, and stays there three days. He is respectful, helpful, a delightful guest. Eventually it is time for him to be on his way. He's just shouldering his bag when he turns. "Oh, I knew there was something!" he says to Antony with a smile. "I have news of your little brother. He's been made bishop of Alexandria!" And with a wink to his minions, he walks away.
There is no better armour against the devil than prayer. He hates that. He can't stand it.
When man speaks to God in the Scriptures, he doesn't whisper, or project his thoughts, he speaks ...The Book of Job is an extended contemplation of the question of theodicy. It's clear the Adversary suspects he can make Job curse God, but he does not know ... and as it turns out, he's wrong.Because God does know the heart, whether one prays in silence or aloud is immaterial. In fact, when it comes to knowledge of the heart, the Christian Tradition is quite clear that God reads in the heart that which goes beyond words.
It matters not to God, but it matters to us, and for the reasons posted above, praying aloud is then, for certain contingent and secondary reasons, in some ways the better way. There is a long esoteric tradition on this, and it also leads into areas such as the invocation of the Divine Name (or indeed, the invocation of evil spirits). The point being the term 'invoke' comes from the verb 'vocare' to call – and again there's a long tradition of the power of the spoken word over the thought word. Thought words have no substance, spoken words have being.
Prayer, like anything else, is something one gets better at the more one practices. And an accompanying physical practice embodies better and quicker than just mental practice.
When Christ says: "But thou when thou shalt pray, enter into thy chamber, and having shut the door, pray to thy Father in secret" (Matthew 6:6), it does not necessarily mean pray in silence – indeed one can pray in silence anywhere – esoteric instruction aside, the advice to 'enter into thy chamber' is to remove oneself from earshot. When Christ prays in Scripture, He prays aloud. I can't think of anywhere in Scripture where the person prays 'in his/her head'.
Satan is not omniscient. According to an ancient Christian tradition, there are three 'mysteries ... accomplished in the silence of God' of which Old Nick was unaware. But again, according to Scripture, Satan and his minions were in no doubt as to Christ's true identity – it's they who address Him as 'the Son of God' and not in any metaphorical sense.
Whilst Satan cannot read the mind, he can read human nature – he's had enough practice – and he knows weakness, because he himself is weak. and he sees with a spiritual sense, so more astute than our fallible physical senses.
The flaws we see in others, we see because they are our flaws ... one of the most powerful life lessons I've ever learned.
He knows how to play humans. The Traditions are full of stories, it's by the the little things that he gains entry, and once he's in, he's in. They're there in Christian teachings, and the Buddhist story of the monk trapped by demons and faced with three sins, each one worse than the one before. The monk chooses the least sin, but then goes on to commit all three. The moral of the story is there is no such thing as a little sin, and Old Nick uses the little ones to open the way to the big ones.
The Greeks call this logismoi in their spiritual psychology.
So no ... he cannot read our thoughts, but he can read human nature like an open book.
There's a story about Old Nick sending three young demons to tempt a hermit called Antony. For days they try. The rot his food and foul his water so he hungers and thirsts. They parade visions and temptations passed the old man, but he stands resolutely against them. They try every weapon, to no avail ... Eventually they go back and admit there's nothing they can do, Antony is too strong.
'Idiots', says Old Nick. 'Watch'.
He turns up at the old hermit's hut in the guise of a traveller, and stays there three days. He is respectful, helpful, a delightful guest. Eventually it is time for him to be on his way. He's just shouldering his bag when he turns. "Oh, I knew there was something!" he says to Antony with a smile. "I have news of your little brother. He's been made bishop of Alexandria!" And with a wink to his minions, he walks away.
Quite right. I like the notion of silent prayer myself. To me, man's battle with Satan is like fighting someone you know you can beat. The conflict may be inevitable, but if you can avoid suffering a black eye in the process, so much the better.
Aussie Thoughts
Just my 2 cents
Nothing like the element of surprise. Just ask a certain Samoan... lol!The conflict may be inevitable, but if you can avoid suffering a black eye in the process, so much the better.
Ha, ha, ha, that fellow got him some religion that day! I wouldn't be surprised to learn that he was a devout Catholic now.
Getting back to the topic at hand. From a purely human perspective, spoken prayers may appear to have more substance, but I think silent prayers represent a more personal and intimate relationship with God. A psychic bond if you will.
As far as Satan is concerned, when it comes to silent prayer, he's completely out of the loop. He may well be able to discern human behavior, but as the illustrated in the book of Job, nodding yes while thinking no, confuses the hell out of Satan, (Pun intended)!
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Devils' Advocate
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As I am Deist, my thoughts come from a different direction; though it seems to me many will find it similar to what has already been said. This reality in which we abide is all about vibration. Everything is vibrating all the time. We humans are limited with our five senses, which very much limits our ability to interact with the universe. Ergo ipso facto colombo oreo, the more of our senses we can activate in 'prayer' the more effect there is on the outcome. Thinking is vibrating. Visualizing is vibration, speaking is vibration, movement is vibration. And so on.
That is why there is power in group dynamics. When multiple people are active towards the same goal - such as Native American ceremonies who chant, dance, dress in costume, etc. as a group - the power of vibration potentially affecting reality is a geometrical rather than arithmetic progression.
That is why there is power in group dynamics. When multiple people are active towards the same goal - such as Native American ceremonies who chant, dance, dress in costume, etc. as a group - the power of vibration potentially affecting reality is a geometrical rather than arithmetic progression.
Actually I think all the evidence points to the contrary.
Look up 'mantra', 'dhikr' ... in every spiritual discipline, there is a significant stress on the transformative power of the spoken word. Hence the importance and power of chanting in all traditions. And from there posture, movement, dance ...
Curiously, there's an article in this week's New Scientist which has identified certain physical activities have been shown to be beneficial in the practice of certain mental exercises.
Does Job nod yes and think no?
Again I would suggest it does not do to under-estimate the Adversary, or over-estimate ourselves. If one is praying, one is in a 'light processing dynamic', a light that is visible to the angelic eye, even the fallen angelic eye ... so if you're praying, he knows you're praying.
There was a magician on a radio show this morning. She was a 'social psychologist' who got turned onto magic watching Dynamo perform. She's now a professional. She performed a mind-reading trick – she got the programme hosts to draw a picture, put them in an envelope. She then drew her pictures. She drew what they drew. She would not explain how she did it, but it was not a 'trick' (looking over the shoulder, or whatever). Rather is was by reading the 'tells' of the individual. Darren Brown has made a career of the same thing.
People trained in the arts can 'read your mind' because we give away what we're thinking without even knowing. And people trained in the arts can seed your mind without you realising. Darren Brown did a trick where a guy goes shopping and buys five items which DB has previously written down. Watching the playback, you can see DB planting the idea in the guy's head ...
People are an open book.
Lastly a word about 'prayer warriors' and 'spiritual warfare' –
This was another of those phenomena to come out of America. Hopefully it's run its course now, I haven't heard much about it of late. I hope so. Basically it's looking more to John Wayne than Jesus for a spiritual model. 'Nuff said. (Even Archangel Michael, the 'celestial enforcer'
rolleyes knows better than to go down that route ... )How to beat the devil? Be full of light. How to be full of light? Don't have any darkness in you. Be 'a child of the light' (cf St Paul & St John) and Old Nick can't get close.
Excellent point.
Brilliant.
Ah, something I hadn't thought of, but a whole other dimension.
The secular desire to relegate religion to the private sphere, to reduce it to the personal, before dismissing it as mere superstition, erodes the 'collective web' that should unite all in authentic interfaith. If one was a conspiracy theorist, one might think the Adversary was behind it!
Aussie Thoughts
Just my 2 cents
Having grown up watching the Abbies communicate with one another and indeed the spirit world without uttering a word, I would tend to agree.
I've always liked the book of Job. Your analogical pun sums it up quite well.
Richard Pickett
Tazdog
Depends on the situation. When I am praying at meal time I pray silently unless I am with a like minded group, then it is a communal prayer.