My Religious Experience - Christianity and Islam.

wil said:
I've been told repeatedly by folks...read any interpretation you'd like....but until you learn Arabic...you won't know the Quran... (Jews believe similar)
Click to expand...
That is for recitation purposes... and deep scholarly understanding. Most Sheiks agree that most general understanding can be gained from translation.
 
BigJoeNobody said:
That is for recitation purposes... and deep scholarly understanding. Most Sheiks agree that most general understanding can be gained from translation.
Click to expand...
My understanding is the poetic nature, the nuance of wors s that don't translate well....folks that say translation is enough...are folks that don't know the Arabic... (But that is from folks that do..so similar bias a foot)
 
One can get most of the meaning by consulting 2-3 different translation, that also have the oral tradition associated with verses. But then there is a particular rhythm of meaning that cant be translated, and also the nuance of words, semitic idioms, arabic way of saying things etc that make no sense in English.

For example, there is an oft repeated verse, "dont make christians and jews your friends". Firstly the word used in arabic (wali) doesnt mean friend, it means guardian allies. Secondly there is a particular historical context. If you remove both, then the meaning becomes totally different.
 
This brings up a point; what is the conversion protocol for Islam? I know Judaism and the Christian faith all have a certain ritual. And if say someone converts in the West, will he/she be Sunni or Shia or either (based on the group who conducts the ceremony)?
 
Nikki, it is my humble opinion that all religions have the same source, the ancients referred to a lost race of humans, a great flood, earthquakes but it is quite certain that once people of earth were nearly extinct as they shall be again. It all goes in cycles. The legend of the Atlantis does not seem to be so fat fetched, to me.
It is my advice - to look within! You have the solution, you have God within as everybody else does. If you wish to understand God, you need to love yourself, and love others. I have said the first - the self, because without the first, the second is not possible.


[

QUOTE="NikkiNeversleep, post: 301223, member: 19002
11902232_628567617284269_8033426038601127556_n.jpg

"My Religious Experience"
by Nikki "Neversleep"

In all my time learning in and of other religions, what I have found out about God is....... Nothing. This is why I remain an agnostic atheist. I'm not opposed to learning about him should he wish to teach, but at this time I'm done being the one making the calls, he doesn't seem to be getting my messages.

Thanks for reading.[/QUOTE]
 
Hermes said:
This brings up a point; what is the conversion protocol for Islam? I know Judaism and the Christian faith all have a certain ritual. And if say someone converts in the West, will he/she be Sunni or Shia or either (based on the group who conducts the ceremony)?
Click to expand...
These are the types of questions that belong in the Islam forum. although I'm pretty sure you have been part of several discussions that already answered these questions.
 
Hermes said:
it is my humble opinion that all religions have the same source
Click to expand...
An Islamic core principle.
Hermes said:
If you wish to understand God, you need to love yourself, and love others. I have said the first - the self, because without the first, the second is not possible.
Click to expand...
I agree with the need. Not with it being an answer to any unkown.
 
farhan said:
One can get most of the meaning by consulting 2-3 different translation, that also have the oral tradition associated with verses. But then there is a particular rhythm of meaning that cant be translated, and also the nuance of words, semitic idioms, arabic way of saying things etc that make no sense in English.
Click to expand...
me thinks you've hit the nail on the head of if you are going to be...learning the language makes a huge difference....

It would benefit me if I were to learn Hebrew, koine, Greek, Aramaic and arabic...
 
Hi NikkiNeversleep!

You seem to be awake. :) Many have experienced what you have experienced. Some has dealt with it by lying to their family, calling themselves Christians, done the ceremonies etc.
Even scientists have admitted they keep a Christian image up because of social pressure. You went very far searching for God. You really deserve to meet him. This could maybe bring you and your father closer again on a spiritual level.

I was an atheist from 4 years old when I witnessed the santa-scam. From then on I was a hard-core skeptic. I was not even searching for God. However God was always inside of me. This I realized when I was doing meditation in solitude and finally experienced God.

It was like ten orgams of pure love, oneness, truth and the realization that God leads us all to prosperity. I believe God is within most of us, and the ones who does not have him within we must pity.

I can see that you Nikki clearly have potential to find God within you.

Hugs
Maitreya
 
@BigJoeNobody to be fair there are multiple "versions" when I say version I include English and other translations in that as they are different from the Arabic due to grammatical differences and wording. The same could be said of the different versions of recorded recitations of the Quran by several Imams and the words they choose to use when reciting it, whether slip ups or not.

@farhan I've noticed a few differences in two printed MSA (Modern Standard Arabic) versions of the Quran I own that are from different nations. Of course I've approached native Arabic speakers about this, sadly for the most part they just deny there are differences even when I show the differences to them. To my knowledge there are 7-10 recorded recitations of the Quran by different Imams that are circulated (all Arabic) and roughly 4000 differences between them according to certain sources, usually it's a minor difference. The message doesn't particularly change but the wording does.

@wil good thing I took the time to learn Arabic ;)
lugha wahidah la takfi :p
 
Hermes said:
This brings up a point; what is the conversion protocol for Islam? I know Judaism and the Christian faith all have a certain ritual. And if say someone converts in the West, will he/she be Sunni or Shia or either (based on the group who conducts the ceremony)?
Click to expand...
5 Pillars of Islam, it's encouraged that one learn Arabic but it is not always required. Sunni and Shia sects are barely mentioned unless you are in regions where it becomes an issue.
 
OK, but which way do they lean? Or maybe I do not understand Islam enough...anyway, thanks for the answer.
NikkiNeversleep said:
5 Pillars of Islam, it's encouraged that one learn Arabic but it is not always required. Sunni and Shia sects are barely mentioned unless you are in regions where it becomes an issue.
Click to expand...
 
NikkiNeversleep said:
@BigJoeNobody to be fair there are multiple "versions" when I say version I include English and other translations in that as they are different from the Arabic due to grammatical differences and wording. The same could be said of the different versions of recorded recitations of the Quran by several Imams and the words they choose to use when reciting it, whether slip ups or not.

@farhan I've noticed a few differences in two printed MSA (Modern Standard Arabic) versions of the Quran I own that are from different nations. Of course I've approached native Arabic speakers about this, sadly for the most part they just deny there are differences even when I show the differences to them. To my knowledge there are 7-10 recorded recitations of the Quran by different Imams that are circulated (all Arabic) and roughly 4000 differences between them according to certain sources, usually it's a minor difference. The message doesn't particularly change but the wording does.
Click to expand...
Well firstly, quran wasent revealed as a written text. It was revealed as a rhymed sermon, devoid of dots, commas and diacritical marks. So there are different ways of putting dots, commas and diacritical marks. Secondly different tribes spoke (and still speak) their own dialect, with their own kind of pronunciations. Just like Paris would be pronounced something like Pegha in french, or Iran is pronounced by Iranians as Aerawn, but they are the same thing.

Quran exists only in one language, and its not MSA, its in classical bedouin arabic, which was back then considered to be the highest form of the language. In printed form, there is usually a version which is published in non arab countries of asia, from turkey to indonesia. Which is with all the diacritical marks. The second one is usually the Saudi/peninsular one without diacritical marks. All asian versions are according to Hafs recitation. In Africa there are warsh, qaloon and a few other version which are very different from Hafs ones.


And despite these "differences" they are the same thing.
 
Hermes said:
This brings up a point; what is the conversion protocol for Islam? I know Judaism and the Christian faith all have a certain ritual. And if say someone converts in the West, will he/she be Sunni or Shia or either (based on the group who conducts the ceremony)?
Click to expand...
For official purpose, say,"There is one God, Muhamad is his last prophet" in fornt of two people, and thats it. No ceremony required.
They can lean whichever way they want too, or remain neutral.
 
Nikki, find your Self first. How you'r gonna do it I dont know. But you exist, which means there has to be a path for you. You have spread yourself too much. Try some meditation. Whatever school suits you.
 
NikkiNeversleep said:
I was raised in a Christian home by two very amazing people. My father nondenominational Black-Bahamian, my mother a Catholic Puerto Rican.
Click to expand...

Hello Nikki. I thank you from the bottom of my heart for sharing this lovely story with all of us. Like you, I have also experienced many languages and cultures and know it is a very opening and moving emotional, spiritual, and physical experience. I hope you embrace this love with all of your heart and continue to pursue it just as was implied in your story.

I am going to bring this up simply because you mentioned how interested you are in learning about religions. I am Havist. This is relatively unknown and is new as a religion. If you would like me to explain it to you, feel free to message me or I could sense you a message as well. If not, that is fine as well. I only propose this because you mentioned it is of great interest and I presume passion to you.

Your story is incredible. I am glad you've listened to so many people explain their religions, cultures, and languages. although about God you may have learned nothing, it is not nothing that you have learned. Though I am sure you know this.
Emi
 
@farhan I'm aware of the lore of Islam. However what I'm talking about is the physical, the examineable Quran. The Written word. The "Original" is written in an older form of Arabic, Quranic Arabic is NOT the same as MSA. MSA is the language that modern printed Arabic copies of the Quran are printed in.

As I said the message rarely changes, but the wording can from version to version (copy to copy), depending on the dialect of MSA it's printed in and where it was printed.

@Emi thank you for the warm welcome.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Emi
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top