Why Do We Trust Ancient Texts as Accurate?

When it comes to empirical science, then of course we have tech. But I don't believe we're more advanced than they, I just think we've been at it longer. We've developed the tech to see and measure the empirical world more accurately. But that begs the question, if they had the tech, might they not arrive at the same conclusions?

The point is that they did not have the tech. And we are more advanced today because we do - in certain areas of society. More about this in a second. Talking specifically about tech, they were less advanced than today because they had a much more limited view of reality. This limited view brought about some truly bizarre guesses about how reality works. And these off the wall guesses resulted in some not so good actions. Like burning witches at the stake because there was a severe local drought.

When it comes to philosophy, they were as human as we are. They had all the resources we have.

Yes, I agree with you. At least for the most part. A lot of advances in medical sciences (on how the brain works for example) does give modern day philosophers some advantage over philosophers from a thousand years ago.

Is the world a really a better place? No. There's probably as much suffering now as ever there was ... certainly there's a higher proportion of the global population in enforced migration than ever there was.

Now that one is a tough call. Overall I think there is less suffering now than there was then. At least in the 'advanced' societies. A great deal of Africa and a lot of South America still suffer in higher percentages; they are more backward nations though. The migration issue is a mostly modern phenomena, because there are so many more people on the planet without the infrastructure to allow them to live where they were born.

It's about a discourse.

It 'should' be about a discourse. We here in the US seem to have lost that ability in the areas of politics and religion.
 
Well in my view there are ancient texts and some have been interpolated and some lost but the importance is not so much whether they are ancient or not but whether they are "revealed" texts. Now by "revealed" I mean more than literary or poetic inspiration .. there is a process noted where revelation occurs and this is what has power and significance ..
Yes, the texts need not be ancient. ;)
 
The one genuine difference between science and religion is that what we believe we know is forward thinking information in the former. And backwards thinking information for the latter.
The theologians have spoken, so let me put a few lines. Why should there be a difference? Just as science corrects itself, let religion also be corrected with the latest knowledge. In Hinduism, this is accepted. Of course, we understand that there will be a people who have need for old thoughts, they are not strong enough to withstand the new thought, they can continue with their old thoughts.
 
I do not know how Hinduism works, particularly as it connects to 'new' knowledge. The Abrahamic religions' knowledge base is all from thousands of years ago. The Torah, the NT, the Quran; all were set in stone a long time ago. Religions such as these cannot correct themselves on latest knowledge as there isn't any!
 
I do not know how Hinduism works, particularly as it connects to 'new' knowledge. The Abrahamic religions' knowledge base is all from thousands of years ago. The Torah, the NT, the Quran; all were set in stone a long time ago. Religions such as these cannot correct themselves on latest knowledge as there isn't any!
I think a little clarification is in order. Most Abrahamics see a difference in knowledge of the seen and the unseen. What is seen we can easily acknowledge as we see it. The difference in the Unseen however in our (using this generally, and not absolutely) religious views, we see the original as perfect. There is no need to revise (In Islam it is completely forbidden) our texts. We have no reason to reform our view of the law as it is from the eternal God, the Creator. If there was a reason to change it, the religion would cease to be (more than likely). For Jews, I've been told they believe prophets come and go still, or that all Jews are living prophets (depending on the sources I've talked to...). For (most) Christians, Jesus (PBUH) was the final reminder as he was God in the form of a man, hence he corrected it all. In Islam we believe (in general again) that Mouhammed (PBUH) is the last Messenger and Prophet. Therefor we believe he delivered the perfected full word of Allah. once the word is perfected, there is no need to revise. From what I understand of Hinduism there is an Idea that there is more to be discovered, and that idea can lead to new/greater knowledge. However I feel like if there was a mysterious message in Hinduism, it would have surfaced by now.
 
The seen and unseen changes with science....bacteria, germs, diseases...attributed to devil's and possessions until microscope and science...

Heavens and God and our ancestors were with the stars...looking down on us....until astinauts and telescopes... We were an earth centered universe...

Gravity, radio waves, xrays, weather, drought...not evil spirits, not affected by prayer or irate gods....all explained eventually by science... As I believe the rest of the unseen will be...
 
The seen and unseen changes with science....bacteria, germs, diseases...attributed to devil's and possessions until microscope and science...

Heavens and God and our ancestors were with the stars...looking down on us....until astinauts and telescopes... We were an earth centered universe...

Gravity, radio waves, xrays, weather, drought...not evil spirits, not affected by prayer or irate gods....all explained eventually by science... As I believe the rest of the unseen will be...
You are free to believe that, as I am free to disagree... The unseen, however, is not bacteria and germs, at least not when talking about a theological sense. Of course Muslim doctors were learning about antiseptics, medicine, and surgery while the Christian Churches were damning anyone who got sick or tried to heal them with medicine.
 
However I feel like if there was a mysterious message in Hinduism, it would have surfaced by now.
There is no mystery. There are things that we know and things for which the time of knowing has not come (like gravity waves, dark energy, etc.). Insisting on answers at this time will lead to wrong conclusions. Leave that for future.
 
Hi DA –
I do not know how Hinduism works, particularly as it connects to 'new' knowledge. The Abrahamic religions' knowledge base is all from thousands of years ago. The Torah, the NT, the Quran; all were set in stone a long time ago. Religions such as these cannot correct themselves on latest knowledge as there isn't any!
I think the crux of this discussion rests on Revelation.

The Abrahamic Traditions all turn on this point. If there’s no Revelation, then the fundamental core of the religion is void, and all that follows. (What you’re left with is speculation and a system of ethics and morality.) Hinduism doesn’t use the word, rather they say ‘Recalled’ or “Remembered’, but it amounts to the same thing. The Tao, I would say, declares the same. 'The Tao that cannot be spoken’ is either metaphysical speculation, or it is a revealed actuality. Enlightenment in traditional Buddhism, the same again … (Does not Deism, in that sense, stands or fall under the same principle – is God an actuality, or a speculative possibility?)

The content of Revelation is by its very nature a glimpse of the Transcendent, the Absolute, the timeless and the eternal, so if one accepts Revelation as such, then the human sciences can neither add to nor detract from that, it’s simply outside their purview. It can shed light on the discourse, which is what theology and metaphysics is and does, what philosophy traditionally did, but generally since the Age of Enlightenment (so-called) it largely longer does, having accepted certain self-declared limitations or horizons.

Neuroscience, for example, can tell us certain things about the mind which one might assume defines mystical states. When we are talking about mystical states, oracles or prophets, we can say that their states might well be brought about by neurological conditions (the is a correlation between epilepsy and mystical states, for example) – but we cannot say for certain that such is universally the case.

There are a range of states, from the ‘mystical’ or pneumatic to the mental or psychic, that can trigger an epileptic or other neurological reaction, when the mind is ‘overwhelmed’ by a certain apprehension. A sunset or some other sublime aspect of nature can induce tears or joy, for example. I think the contemporary notion of ‘bliss’ is actually one of the psychic states and attainable with practice and a certain psychological outlook, whereas a sense of 'one-ness’ and the ‘all in all’ can be an authentic transcendental state …

I know of one person who experienced a religious epiphany watching a rose bloom, another when looking at a stand glass window, another when he heard a choir singing. Are these all just personal, subjective psychologisms, or was there a transcending event, that is, did the event open a way to the Transcendent Other?

Like love, no science can say. It can observe, monitor and measure, but that’s all it can do.
 
Heavens and God and our ancestors were with the stars...looking down on us....until astinauts and telescopes... We were an earth centered universe...
Ah yes, In astronomical terms, we're on the outside edge of the rim, etc., etc ... But the discourse of the Ancients was never about astronomical geography ...

But that doesn't really impinge upon the consciousness of people today. If in the past we were an earth-centered universe, today we are a self-centred universe ...
 
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Is a self centered universe any better than an earth centered one? Interesting question; for another thread though.

Obviously I agree that science cannot explain the religious experience, Gods, and so on; I've stated this numerous times in many threads.

That was never my point in this thread. My point was that where science and religion get their information is focused differently. Forward based in science, looking to the past in religions, at least the Abrahamics. Both Joe and Thomas' replies suggest they are in agreement with my supposition. I.E. that the great religious books that define Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all tomes written many centuries ago (or longer). There is nothing to be gained by looking to the future because everything one needs to know about these faiths are based solidly and completely on books written long ago.

Science is not based on past discoveries; rather on new discoveries made as we move forward and our ability to test previous theories for accuracy, and dumping them if new information proves they were incorrect. There is no mechanism that I am aware of that is equivalent in religions.
 
How can science prove the negative? However, there cannot be any change in the fact that God created Adam (in his image in case of Christians) from clay (in case of Muslims) and Eve from his rib. Nice revelation. Not talking about the speking serpent.
 
But the discourse of the Ancients was never about astronomical geography ...

But that doesn't really impinge upon the consciousness of people today.
Have ya had a chance to listen to our presidential candidates, or watched our ball players point up, thanking God, for guiding thier kick or pass......because God wanted.their team to win???
 
There is nothing to be gained by looking to the future because everything one needs to know about these faiths are based solidly and completely on books written long ago.
Knowing you are a "non-believer" i'll let the "books written" point slide for now as Islam (and to an extent all Abrahamics) :D is an Oral Tradition.. Technically speaking, the beliefs are based on word we view as revealed long ago...

But I agree, that Abrahamics (for the most part) are based on their original revelation and not on new ideas that seem to fit, or work better.
 
Religion has been updated...from Isis, to go, to God to Jesus, to Allah, ...

In abrahamic from Jews to Christians to Muslims to bahai to Mormons and rastas and thousands of denominations and sects in between... Each taking the old thought and adding to it... The transcendentalists led to new thought... Which focuses not on the literal beliefs but metaphor and allegory and metaphysic...

Who knows where religion will go...but yeah...science doesnt keep going back to the old books...except leeches...
 
Religion has been updated...from Isis, to go, to God to Jesus, to Allah, ...
And here I think is a main difference in view. first of all ISIS isn't updating Islam, they are simply misinterpreting ALOT OF IT. God didn't change to Allah, Allah is simply a different name for the same supreme entity (considering the word God probably didn't exist before 1500AD outside of Germanic Pagans, it too could be considered a change by your logic, but not to most Christians or Muslims of English speaking ancestry). All Prophets whether it be from a Christian or Islamic standpoint don't usually view their message as changing, but rather re-establishing or correcting. Essentially bringing the understanding of the religion back into where it was supposed to be and where it was (in our separate opinions) when it was brought originally. Some Rules might change, such as no alcohol and number of prayers a day required, but the fundamentals of the religion stayed the same. There is only 1 God who is all-powerful, all-knowing, and omnipresent. Than humans should be kind to others, and that there is an afterlife. These fundamentals do not change.

Now
Muslims to bahai to Mormons and rastas
From what I understand of Bahai, and I'm sure I'm wrong and will be corrected, Bahai believe largely that the Quran was misunderstood (much like Muslims see the Christians view of the original Bibles), and their teacher corrected these "misunderstandings" while maintaining that the Quran was largely considered a good source. Mormons introduced a new idea, although the trinity had been around, They believed a new prophet came and established a book that was an addition to the Bible of the old. And that Jesus had transcended into a God state, along with the "holy spirit". This contradicts the original message of 1 God. Christians (call the protestants but realizing the diversity of ideas) largely believed the trinity to be 3 parts of the 1. Hence, instead of evolution of an idea, I would see Mormons as having created a whole new religion. Rastas equally so but to an even greater degree.
 
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