The nature of evil

wil

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a figment of your imagination
Or evil in nature?

From another thread...so as not to derail it...

stevegp said:
.Evil is a label we apply based on moral sensibilities. To me the goal is to ground it in the divine morality. Evil comes in many forms and in many cases is a very subtle distinction, whether it be attributed to animals, humans, or natural acts.
.

I posit you must believe in God to think hurricanes, floods, lightning or other natural disasters as evil.
 
I posit that I agree with your last statement. Natural disasters are not premeditated. They do not single any one group out. They are random in time and space (i.e. different places on the planet).

What Steve was saying, if I understand him correctly, is that where there is a belief in a divine morality, evil might be able to be defined as natural events. I'm having a tough time with that concept, but then I do not accept any divine morality as existing.
 
Since you brought up this topic, I'd like to go back to some of the things I said in another thread about the difference between the natural world versus the human world. In the natural world I see no evil at all. None whatsoever. Animals do what they have to do, and no more. If there is local devastation it is not the planet being evil, it is the result of earthly processes.

What is the fascinating thing to me is that animals have nor moral concept in their existence - yet they appear to behave in far more moral way than humans ever have.

It is a curious thing to me, and I'm thinking an actual causality that humans are the only animal that has a sense of moral values, yet they behave morally worse than every other life form on the planet. Why is that?
 
I posit that I agree with your last statement. Natural disasters are not premeditated. They do not single any one group out. They are random in time and space (i.e. different places on the planet).
]I agree too.

... is that where there is a belief in a divine morality, evil might be able to be defined as natural events. I'm having a tough time with that concept, but then I do not accept any divine morality as existing.
I don't accept it either, nor am I completely at ease with 'divine morality'. If one accepts God as pure act, God is not under any constraint – God does not deliberate, nor is God directed towards 'a greater good', for example. What God wills is the Good, what is contrary to the Good is perceived as evil. An evil act requires the free assent of the informed will, that is the actor must know beforehand that what he is doing is contrary to the good.

In law, ignorance of the law is no excuse. In moral law within the Christian Tradition, whilst 'I did not know' can be accepted as rendering someone unaccountable – children who have yet to develop an informed set of moral values for instance, or the mentally impaired who are simply unable to perceive the difference, the 'I did not know' excuse is not acceptable when common sense should tell you that to act in a certain manner is wrong ... but I don't think God deliberates moral values, that's something we do.

What is the fascinating thing to me is that animals have nor moral concept in their existence - yet they appear to behave in far more moral way than humans ever have.
Hmm, not sure. I think some animals have a sense of right and wrong, and know when they cross the line ... I'm sure I've seen primate activity along those lines ... but I agree in that I would not say this indicates a moral sensibility.

It is a curious thing to me, and I'm thinking an actual causality that humans are the only animal that has a sense of moral values, yet they behave morally worse than every other life form on the planet. Why is that?
Because we can ... and we think we can get away with it ...?
 
We can find animals killing for killing sake, raping, abusing and stealing... Homosexuality, masturbation, oral sex...

All natural...

Somehow we decide humans have a capacity of right and wrong and begin to legislate values through religions and laws..

And if you disobey these we call it evil....

Unless... You are the ruling party...then the closet you get to white privileged male the more likely it is moral for slavery, date rape, misogyny...while that has changed some in the past 150 years...for the past ten thousand the "wrong" golden rule applied...

Today... Murder is murder unless it is war...

Our morality is and definitions of evil are adjustable.... The difference between patriot, freedom fighter and terrorist depends on what side you are on....as does your definition of atrocity, torture and evil.

And I don't know how to handle being on that wrong side...
 
Thus proving my point!



Yep. Why do you think I said "Atrocity and torture are evil no matter what side one is on".
so... We are the evil empire...manifest destiny co quering the world thru our military might and economic control (aid, sanctions, occupation by military base or corporations)

But it is all for their own good...isn't there a time when the ends justify the means...I mean when we do it? Our evil is for the good of the world therefor sanctioned?
 
Or evil in nature?

From another thread...so as not to derail it...

.

I posit you must believe in God to think hurricanes, floods, lightning or other natural disasters as evil.

This represents an ancient world view of evil. If I believed in the ancient view of God this would be valid, but I do not believe in the view of the Biblical God that considers these occurrences as products of evil, or vindictive acts by God for retribution for disobedience or acts of evil by fallible humans.
 
I see evil as intentional harm without any intentions towards benefits to the one harmed and/or all of the benefits are to the one doing the harm.

Am I making any sense to you?

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine
 
It is difficult for me to define evil, as there are so many situations in this world where it is not easy to say whether a specific act should be defined as evil or as good. Too often there is no clear division; rather a wide gray area depending on social, ethnic, religious, grounds. It would be nice to think that the intent of a person's actions could define whether that action is good or evil. Intent, however, is also defined by those aforementioned factors. What is defined as evil in one place may very well be considered good somewhere else.
 
According to the dominant islamic position, evil is only associated with freewill. Animals act instinctually, without an ability for abstract reasoning. Even the most intelligent animal is less capable to think abstractly than a mentally handicapped human. Humans on the other hand have been entrusted with two "unique" qualities - abstract thought (we can simply say intellect) and the ability to make choices based upon that (we can say freewill). For an act to be evil, again, according to Islamic beliefs, there must be these two factors.

Due to this, we would not consider the acts of an animal or an insane person, someone who acts unconsciously or someone who is coerced as being evil.

As for what occurs in the world, I do not agree that they are random. I believe they occur due to outlet and inner realities and their occurance in a specific time and place occurs by God's will. In this way, they too are not evil as God is not malicious. What occurs in the heavens and earth, we believe, are signs and indications pointing back to Him - and they may also be warnings, punishments, or even opportunities. But we would never judge an act of nature as "evil".

I would go out on a pretty wide limb, but a limb none the less, and say that evil is not so much the actions themselves. To disobey God's guidance can be a wrong action, a major sin and even a crime. But what we term evil is generally the choice itself and the consequences of those actions. What i mean is that if someone murders, we see the fact that this person chose to take that life as evil. Under other circumstances we may not view the taking of a life as evil but good and so it is the intent and choice we are looking at. What is more, when someone chooses to use bullets laced with depleted uranium, the birth defects that span generations are viewed as an evil consequence of that evil act.

I believe that the topics of sin, evil, intellect and freewill must always be wrapped up together as it seems one can not exist without the entire package.
 
... Humans on the other hand have been entrusted with two "unique" qualities - abstract thought (we can simply say intellect) and the ability to make choices based upon that (we can say freewill). For an act to be evil, again, according to Islamic beliefs, there must be these two factors.
This corresponds to the traditional Christian position. 'Evil' resides in the decision to act in a certain fashion, in the full knowledge and understanding that the action is 'wrong' against the prevalent moral norms.

It also requires the free assent of the will, so evil performed under coercion does not accrue to the coerced, but the coercer.

The law then has to determine at what point the coerced can be held culpable.

I would go out on a pretty wide limb ...
I think I would join you on that limb ...
 
Or evil in nature?

From another thread...so as not to derail it...

.

I posit you must believe in God to think hurricanes, floods, lightning or other natural disasters as evil.

Evil in nature may exist, yet it's a counter "as above so below" one's not evil without good, nor good without evil in the same way predators aren't without prey, nor prey without predators (counting in a healthy balance) "god" the one you speak of isn't the one doing it, nature is full of beauty, while it can at the same time be destructive, in nature there isn't build stuff asides from humans so in nature it's just a bit of a harsh condition. Not sure why the reason they exist but i'm sure it's a just one but they in no way are evil
 
Well humans are part of nature ...
They were, but in nature predator eats prey, prey may sometimes also kill the predator, as well as other predators. Even an apex predator can be killed by another predator. When humans stopped killing out of need and started killing out of fear and revenge...that's when they forcefully went off nature. If say a bear eats a human...so what? There's now 7.6 billion of the humans, yet they slaughtered the bears of the area and cut them open to try to find the one that ate him...That isn't natural, and neither is throwing lizards into a tank to be eaten by a fish...when in nature does that happen again?
 
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