Found this cartoon and thought it hit the mark quite cleanly.

Wow, atheists are so brainy, and theists are so stupid. Man, it's so cool to be atheist!
 
However, my takeaway from the cartoon is not that atheists are All That and a bag of chips. Yes it was put together by an atheist and puts him on the outside of the religious merry go round, inferring superiority. That was not what made me think this was so patently hilarious.

What made this cartoon such a classic for me is how well it caricatured how these folks all start in opposition to the atheist and end up in opposition to each other's versions of god instead.

Believe me I have had a rudely awakening experience about atheists, the group I watched anyway, the largest atheist group on Facebook, were a bunch of superior, self congratulating, condescending bunch of brats. All they wanted to do day in and day out was post moronic comments religious people make and then poke fun at them. I tried a couple of times to actually start an intelligent discussion and no one was interested in participating in that. These people have nothing on religious people when it comes to morons & idiots.
 
Devils' Advocate said:
However, my takeaway from the cartoon is not that atheists are All That and a bag of chips. Yes it was put together by an atheist and puts him on the outside of the religious merry go round, inferring superiority. That was not what made me think this was so patently hilarious.

What made this cartoon such a classic for me is how well it caricatured how these folks all start in opposition to the atheist and end up in opposition to each other's versions of god instead.

Believe me I have had a rudely awakening experience about atheists, the group I watched anyway, the largest atheist group on Facebook, were a bunch of superior, self congratulating, condescending bunch of brats. All they wanted to do day in and day out was post moronic comments religious people make and then poke fun at them. I tried a couple of times to actually start an intelligent discussion and no one was interested in participating in that. These people have nothing on religious people when it comes to morons & idiots.
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I realize the sarcasm of the Tea. My response was a touch of my own.

Human nature lives on and does not change 'much,' regardless of what we believe.
 
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I think, Cup of Tea, it very much depends on the particular groups you are talking about. There are very intelligent atheists and then there are some very unreflective ones, who, as Devils'Advocate points out, just make insensitive remarks. The same is true of theists. If you think all theists are dumb, just you try getting your doctorate in theology sometime.
 
hoghead1 said:
I think, Cup of Tea, it very much depends on the particular groups you are talking about. There are very intelligent atheists and then there are some very unreflective ones, who, as Devils'Advocate points out, just make insensitive remarks. The same is true of theists. If you think all theists are dumb, just you try getting your doctorate in theology sometime.
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The problem with doctorates in theology there is high degree of conformity within one's choice of Christian church theology one chooses. Most people who pursue a this type doctorate, is their goal is in service within the church they choose, and most often it reflects their Christian background.
 
I just wonder, Shuny, how many Ph.D.'s in theology you know. For one thing, the Ph.D. is not, repeat "not," a church-service degree; it is a seminary/university teaching, research credential. Education alienates. believe you me. I was taught that by a former pastor of my home church. He had a Ph.D. in Christian ethics. His sermons were filled with references to Calvin, just war, etc. I thought they were great sermons. But the congregation complained they sounded like university lectures. Some joked with him, asking if there would be a test next week on the material. He left and took up a fulltime teaching position. In PCUSA, you can't have a church if you are fulltime faculty. Not enough hours in the day. Also, there are two very different cultures you are dealing with here: There is the laity and there is academia. Many laity assume that the academic world of biblical theology and studies is largely an extension of what they have experienced in church or Sunday-school class. Forget it. The academic world is a wholly different world, a completely different ballgame, with different goals, rules, and often reaches conclusions the laity find disturbing. Ask me how I know. My grandfather was a Presbyterian pastor, so my mother saw to it I had a solid Presbyterian upbringing. However, I was totally dissatisfied with what I heard in church. I came away with a strong sense of guilt and a feeling God was aloof and judgmental. I attended a church-related college, took courses in theology, Bible, etc. The academic world opened up a whole new approach for me. That's what got me interested in pursuing a doctorate in theology.
 
hoghead1 said:
I just wonder, Shuny, how many Ph.D.'s in theology you know. For one thing, the Ph.D. is not, repeat "not," a church-service degree; it is a seminary/university teaching, research credential. Education alienates. believe you me. I was taught that by a former pastor of my home church. He had a Ph.D. in Christian ethics. His sermons were filled with references to Calvin, just war, etc. I thought they were great sermons. But the congregation complained they sounded like university lectures. Some joked with him, asking if there would be a test next week on the material. He left and took up a fulltime teaching position. In PCUSA, you can't have a church if you are fulltime faculty. Not enough hours in the day. Also, there are two very different cultures you are dealing with here: There is the laity and there is academia. Many laity assume that the academic world of biblical theology and studies is largely an extension of what they have experienced in church or Sunday-school class. Forget it. The academic world is a wholly different world, a completely different ballgame, with different goals, rules, and often reaches conclusions the laity find disturbing. Ask me how I know. My grandfather was a Presbyterian pastor, so my mother saw to it I had a solid Presbyterian upbringing. However, I was totally dissatisfied with what I heard in church. I came away with a strong sense of guilt and a feeling God was aloof and judgmental. I attended a church-related college, took courses in theology, Bible, etc. The academic world opened up a whole new approach for me. That's what got me interested in pursuing a doctorate in theology.
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I will stick by my original description. I have been closely associated with Duke Divinity School, and even did several guess lectures there, and attended a few courses. I also attended (audit carefully) in a more conservative Divinity school in West Virginia when I lived there (Old Testament and New Testament survey courses from their perspective). I also volunteer at Anathoth Community gardens where a diversity of Divinity students pass through over the past six years. At Anathoth they have a summer program volunteer program for Divinity students from a variety of Divinity schools including liberal Duke and conservative North Carolina Divinity schools. It is clear that if you are a student at a liberal Divinity School like Duke you are bound for a more liberal Protestant church. If you study to be a priest in the Roman Church, you must take a vow to commit yourself sincerely to the tenants, doctrines and dogmas of the church. I actually was in a preparatory program at St. Francis College to enter a Seminary in 1962-63. I decided not to go to seminary and make the commitment, and left the Roman Church. If you study at one of the many conservative Divinity schools you want last long with a liberal religious agenda. You my not even be accepted in the school unless you make a commitment to their agenda.

Yes in the more liberal schools like Duke you will get a broader exposure to alternatives and different belief systems, but, no the goals, theological orientation, and career goals are pretty much set depending on what school you attend.
 
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OK, I'm with you here. I'm just saying it's different at the doctoral level. Yes, there are similarities, but there are also big differences. Some conservative schools will hire only faculty committed to their conservative agenda. One example is Cedarview College, which will not hire any faculty that believe in evolution. However, elsewhere, it can be very different. I know. I'm still busy applying. Almost always they want to see if you meet the departmental demands. They don't care about your church affiliation. The only time that ever comes up are seminary positions open in homiletics or pastoral counseling. Such-and-such a seminary or university is looking for a professor who is expert in biblical languages and Sanskrit. Such-and-such a school is looking for a professor expert in Afro-American religion, etc. Then it is simply a big pissing contest who has the biggest, fattest resume. While all the competition, some small schools receive up to 500 applications for one appointment, and it's almost impossible to find work. Ask me how I know. When I started my graduate work in theology, I thought of also getting my M.Div. After all, many of teh classes overlap, with M.Div. students, plus M.A., plus us pundits. Problem was that I couldn't be in two degree programs at the same time. If I wanted M.Div., I would have had to resign from the doctoral program. Since my interests are academic, I probably would not have been very happy serving a church.
 
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