Hello everyone,

RJM

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My name is Roger. I'm 63, born and schooled in Zimbabwe, which was then Rhodesia, spent most of my life in South Africa, before moving permanently to the UK in 2011, where I now live in Devon. I'm a practising Catholic. I've found this website via Science Fiction Fantasy Chronicles. I look forward to participating. Thank you :)
 
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Hi RJM. Also a Rhodie.:) Which school? I did my O's at Churchill and A's at St George's.
 
Hi RJM. Also a Rhodie.:) Which school? I did my O's at Churchill and A's at St George's.
Saints! 1966 to1969
I left after O levels.
I did A levels at a private college in Salisbury
Small world, Justin. No wonder we're both loyal Catholics? :)
What years were you at Saints?
 
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Saints! 1969 - 1973.
I left after O levels.
I did A levels at a private college in Salisbury
Small world, Justin. No wonder we're both loyal Catholics? :)
What years were you at Saints?

1981-3. Fr O'Halloran was Rector then. Did you leave Rhodesia after A levels?
 
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1981-3. Fr O'Halloran was Rector then. Did you leave Rhodesia after A levels?
Sorry, I was at Saints 1966 to 1969 inclusive. Don't know how that got in!

Yes, I spent time in SA, hitching around, as was popular then. Then I returned and did national service, I think 1973. Long story.

Am just going to go back and correct my last post -- the years.

Quite amazing to connect with one another on such a big international website as the Chrons.

Best regards
 
Welcome! Wow, what are the odds that two of you who're from the same country in Africa joining here on the same day! I'm thrilled to have two more Catholics. I'm a former atheist, became a Christian a few years ago, and I'm still not sure which church I want to go to ... Recently I'm becoming more and more interested in Catholicism, thanks to a brilliant mind such as Thomas's in this forum :)
 
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Welcome! Wow, what are the odds that two of you who're from the same country in Africa joining here on the same day! I'm thrilled to have two more Catholics. I'm a former atheist, became a Christian a few years ago, and I'm still not sure which church I want to go to ... Recently I'm becoming more and more interested in Catholicism, thanks to a brilliant mind such as Thomas's in this forum :)

I must meet Thomas.
 
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Headmaster's office? :(

Lower 6 common room. We were playing football with some scrunched up paper when the deputy head walked in the door. I had my back to him and was saying "C'mon, let's play." The silence made me turn around. He looked me up and down, said "200 lines!" and walked off. Caught like a rat in a trap.
 
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My name is Roger. I'm 63, born and schooled in Zimbabwe, then Rhodesia,
A tad confused... Please be patient with this ignorant American...

Born and schooled in Zimbabwe? What was Zimbabwe 63 years ago? I thought Rhodesia was created by the whites in the 60s and didn't become Zimbabwe till after the civil war ended?

What was it like to live under (with?) minority white rule? (Hitching around SA prior to Mandela, confused as to whether you are white or black...the oppressed or oppressor class) so much I am unaware of... Mayhaps another thread the two of you can account for your various perspectives from your differing times of before, during and after revolutions and power changes..
 
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I must meet Thomas.
This is my great favorite among his writings. It crystallizes the reason why I decided to become a Christian.
Re: How do you define love?

If we're talking 'religion, faith and theology', and theology as a means of understanding what it is we believe, then it's worth noting that the Christian scribes 'resurrected' a term and its philosophical ideal of love that had largely fallen out of the contemporary lexicon. It was used only rarely, and in high philosophical circles, but had little currency in general language until the appearance of the New Testament, and that term was agape.

Without going into etymological detail, it might be useful not simply to determine how we think of love, but how the Christian community thought of it. What kind of love were they talking about?

From that viewpoint, what distinguishes agape from terms such as storge which simply means 'affection' and philia, a 'friendship' that went went beyond storge and implied a deeper, familial sentiment, such as the love of a parent for a child, and generally philia implies the ideal of love within a familial relationship. So friends might have an affection storge for each other, but philia runs deeper, and usually implied an ideal of inter-familial love, such as a parent for a child, or between brothers and sisters, relatives, etc. Thus to express one's deep affection for a friend,one might use the term philia rather than storge, to imply 'I love him like a brother' or, by extension, 'I love him like my own flesh and blood'.

The fourth and most common term, eros, always implies a sense of love that overwhelms the will, as if one can't help it, a sense of being 'carried away', so this term was commonly used to describe anything from raw lust at its most carnal, to the kind of ecstatic 'transports' of being caught up and carried away as was pursued in the Mystery Cults of the ancient world.

The term the Christians used, agape, was seen philosophically as superior to both storge and philia, and in a significant way opposite to eros, in that it implied a love that was self-willed, and furthermore that order of love was 'unconditional' or 'selfless' in the sense of the complete gift of self — the 'opening' of the self, or the 'unveiling of the heart' — to the other, regardless of circumstance.

In the discussions above, what is evident is each of us loves conditionally, whereas the Christian message is one of a God who loves unconditionally, and who demands we love each other as He loves us.

Such a love is then utterly different from eros and far transcends storge and philia.

Cut to the chase:

Two things Christ was unable to convince His audience. The first is just how much God loves His creation, and to what lengths He will go to preserve it, and the second is that the world would be a paradise — heaven on earth — if we would only share that love — His love, for He is Love — between each other, without judgement and without condition. Agape, not storge, not philia, not eros.

There is a trinity of terms the describe Christian conversion: Agape, Metanoia, Kenosis.

From the human perspective, the Love of God is 'tough love'. I should qualify that statement by saying in the UK, the idea is similar to the concept of "authoritative" parenting, whereas in the US the same can be considered as a negative, "authoritarian" parenting, which tends to highlight negative outcomes rather than positive ones.

Personally, I think the 'gentle Jesus meek and mild' owes more to a maudlin sentimentality than the actuality. He most certainly was gentle, meek and mild, but this came from strength, not from weakness — the strength to reach out, selflessly, to those who actively oppressed Him.

"Greater love (agape) than this no man hath, that a man lay down his life for his friends" (John 15:13).

This does not mean getting killed saving another, nor even the mother who rushes into a burning house to save her child, but simply that one put oneself to one side for the sake of the other, be it God, or one's neighbour — it is an ascetic love, and it is the path the Christian is called to follow.

"Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me." (Matthew 16:24, 19:21, Mark 8:34, 10:21, Luke 9:23).

Agape then is not easy. It requires self-denial, self-discipline, selfless service. It's greatest virtue is humility. It is kenosis, the 'emptying' of the self from the heart, and thereby the opening of the heart to another — metanoia — and this 'change of heart' is always tied in with repentance. (Cf Mark 1:4, Matthew 4:17, Mark 6:12 and Acts 17:30).

That is the love the Christian is called to live in the world, and with the world the way it is, it is a cross to be borne.

Eros is the gratification, at best the consolation of the senses. Agape is the consolation of the soul.
 
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A tad confused... Please be patient with this ignorant American...

Born and schooled in Zimbabwe? What was Zimbabwe 63 years ago? I thought Rhodesia was created by the whites in the 60s and didn't become Zimbabwe till after the civil war ended?

What was it like to live under (with?) minority white rule? (Hitching around SA prior to Mandela, confused as to whether you are white or black...the oppressed or oppressor class) so much I am unaware of... Mayhaps another thread the two of you can account for your various perspectives from your differing times of before, during and after revolutions and power changes..
Sorry, I've gone back and edited that to:

... born and schooled in Zimbabwe which was then Rhodesia ...

(Which was named 'Southern Rhodesia' by the time I was born.)

Am white.

Thanks for your interest. However, as for the rest, wil -- it would fill a book. But it'll never be written, because I can't really summon up enough interest in my own life history to even talk about it much, let alone write about it here. It's too much hard work, for me, I'm afraid. Sorry :)

'Mukiwa' by Peter Godwin (Grove Press) tells it all much better than I could, and leaves out nothing that I would have said. Godwin is also white Zimbabwean, educated at the same school that Justin and I attended -- after me, but I think shortly before Justin?

It's available from Amazon, who label it 'an international bestseller'. I enjoyed reading it.

Sorry. I hope that'll do, wil? Obviously no offence intended
 
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Still totally confused... Being born in the CAF weren't you an English citizen? It became Rhodesia when you were 10...and you moved away before to SA before it became Zimbabwe?

Were you able to retain English citizenship the whole time?
 
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