Can we know for certain anything about God and what he plans for us?

Can we know with certitude a God exists and his intention for the human race?

  • We can know with certitude that a God exists.

    Votes: 7 77.8%

  • We cannot know with certitude that a God exists.

    Votes: 2 22.2%

  • We can know with certitude God's intention for the human race.

    Votes: 5 55.6%

  • We cannot know with certitude God's intention for the human race.

    Votes: 1 11.1%
  • Total voters
    9
J

Justin Swanton

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I'm curious. Is religion still viewed as a source of information about God or is it just an expression of one's personal opinions or feelings on the subject? Given the diversity of religious opinion and our exposure to other religious traditions in our hypercommunicative society the question comes up all the time. What do posters here think?
 
I rather think the diversity of religions on offer to a pick-n-choose culture means that one can ... er ... pick-n-choose ... and come up with bespoke religion that suits me and is tailored to my wants and desires.:rolleyes:

I can't remember who it was here who spoke of a religion as an 'enclosed paradigm' and s/he was, in my opinion, quite right. Each religion is its own world, entire and complete unto itself, and pick-n-mix religion is like working out what one needs to survive on the surface of mercury, venus, mars, etc., and then selecting bits of kit from each according to their aesthetic appeal, and assuming that, thus attired, you're welcome anywhere in the cosmos!

I had a recording of the Dalai Lama talking to a community of Dominican monks. He stood up and said, "For the first time, I can't think of anything to say. You know the path as well as I. Hey, what time do you get up in the mornings?"

Later he had a discussion, "What's all this about reincarnation?" The idea of one life and then judgement was explained, as the basis for why we don't do reincarnation. "Oh, that's good. That's a really strong idea. That's excellent. I get it now... "

The point is to pick a religion and do it. Not rationalise it to fit 'me'.

But the skin on this drum of mine is getting very worn ...
 
A corollary question ... what do you want to know?

My point being that those who 'do' religion know what they need to know. Most saints and most sages know very little, but know what they know.

In our culture we want to know everything, we want answers before we commit, we want the reward up front, we want guarantees, and if it does not deliver, it's not my fault and I want my money back. We act like we deserve, or we are owed ... and really what we want to know is usually stuff for our own titillation.
 
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Justin Swanton said:
I'm curious. Is religion still viewed as a source of information about God or is it just an expression of one's personal opinions or feelings on the subject? Given the diversity of religious opinion and our exposure to other religious traditions in our hypercommunicative society the question comes up all the time. What do posters here think?
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Religion has always been a form of govt... A way to control the people because god said so....(Leviticus, Sharia) That and stories to answer the currently umamswerable questions... (How did we get here, where did the sun and stars come from)
 
Thomas said:
A corollary question ... what do you want to know?

My point being that those who 'do' religion know what they need to know. Most saints and most sages know very little, but know what they know.

In our culture we want to know everything, we want answers before we commit, we want the reward up front, we want guarantees, and if it does not deliver, it's not my fault and I want my money back. We act like we deserve, or we are owed ... and really what we want to know is usually stuff for our own titillation.
Click to expand...

By 'know' I mean answers to the important questions that determine what we see to be the purpose of our lives and how we are meant to live them.
 
Justin Swanton said:
Is religion still viewed as a source of information about God or is it just an expression of one's personal opinions
Click to expand...

Don't know about the rest of the world; here in America religion is mostly used as a bludgeon to batter the opinions of anyone who wants to believe differently. There are So Many Christians in this country who profess the ideals of Jesus as their moral code while simultaneously spewing the most hateful vitriol on a daily basis. My conservative religious friends on FB are unrelenting in their cruelty and demeaning of those who oppose them.

This, seems to me, not only as no source of God information but way beyond an expression of a personal opinion. They have turned the teachings of Christ on its head while proclaiming their faithfulness to his teachings all at the same time.
 
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I always appreciate it when others vocalize my thoughts so much more eloquently and succinctly than eye.

(It seems much of the time that which is straightforward to me is a riddle to others)
 
As usual, the local gang of mindless anti-religion proselytizers take every opportunity to attack faith.
 
Dan0813 said:
As usual, the local gang of mindless anti-religion proselytizers take every opportunity to attack faith.
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Now that is funny.

I suppose you erroneously put me in this group you've created in your mind.

Who else have you put in my merry band? I'd like to greet them!
 
Come on chaps, let's keep it impersonal. :)

My guess - I stand to be corrected by the Moderators - is that one is free to say what one likes about religion in general on a forum like this, though of course if someone makes the assertion that "religion is mostly used as a bludgeon to batter the opinions of anyone who wants to believe differently" then one can invite him to substantiate it - or one can just pass on.

Personally, I'm against radical blanket affirmations as they don't achieve anything in a forum discussion. Saying for example that "Atheism is the expression of an irrational and psychologically disturbed hatred for religion and is responsible for the rise of Nazism and Communism and the mass slaughters they perpetrated" accomplishes what exactly? (regardless of whether I can prove it or not)
 
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Dan0813 said:
As usual, the local gang of mindless anti-religion proselytizers take every opportunity to attack faith.
Click to expand...

Is that what I did? I told my experiences. This is what all too many Christians in the US do. Is that attacking faith? I rather think it is attacking Christians who have lost the path they say they follow. If you believe I am doing something else, it would interest me to have you explain why you think that.
 
Justin Swanton said:
Come on chaps, let's keep it impersonal. :)

My guess - I stand to be corrected by the Moderators - is that one is free to say what one likes about religion in general on a forum like this, though of course if someone makes the assertion that "religion is mostly used as a bludgeon to batter the opinions of anyone who wants to believe differently" then one can invite him to substantiate it - or one can just pass on.

Personally, I'm against radical blanket affirmations as they don't achieve anything in a forum discussion. Saying for example that "Atheism is the expression of an irrational and psychologically disturbed hatred for religion and is responsible for the rise of Nazism and Communism and the mass slaughters they perpetrated" accomplishes what exactly? (regardless of whether I can prove it or not)
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You've pretty much got it ... In my opinion.

We have these walled gardens... Outside of any particular garden we are OK to take issue with one thought or another...in a respectful tone hopefully and with some kind of validation of our thought...and a willingness to discuss/defend with references/citations.. Not simply kneejerk bigotry.

Inside our walled gardens we argue I mean discuss nuances within our own belief. We are not to jump in others gardens and pee on their flowers. Some of this happens, can happen if all can stay within fairly amicable boundaries. Threads where participants cannot determine and abide..may get moved, edited, redacted, closed or deleted...depending on the nature and extent of perceived infraction and the last time the moderator ate.
 
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Devils' Advocate said:
Don't know about the rest of the world; here in America religion is mostly used as a bludgeon to batter the opinions of anyone who wants to believe differently.
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Didn't get that impression when I lived there. Quite the opposite really. More often than not, seemed like a lack of faith was being used to bludgeon and ridicule believers. Appears that way on this forum here of late. Only it's not just non-believers vs believers. More often than not it's one believer attacking another over the way they believe. Anyone who believes any form of creation as described in Genesis for example. Instant contempt and automatic labeling.
Justin Swanton said:
...if someone makes the assertion that "religion is mostly used as a bludgeon to batter the opinions of anyone who wants to believe differently" then one can invite him to substantiate it - or one can just pass on.
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I think most folks do realize naysayers are but a dime a dozen and pass right over every negativity spewed forth. At the same time though, there's only so much anti-religious claptrap and ridicule a bloke can take before lashing out. Especially at this time of year on this type of forum.
Devils' Advocate said:
I rather think it is attacking Christians who have lost the path they say they follow.
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I understand what you're saying and somewhat agree, but what you must realize is, to many Christians, if you attack one, you attack all. It also does not go over very well for a non-Christian to tell a Christian who has or hasn't followed a certain path. It's like, you don't believe my doctrine period, so who are you to judge?

As I've said before. When you attend a car show, you're going to encounter automotive enthusiasts of all types. So if you don't like cars or only a certain type....

As to the question posed by the thread, for me it's a resounding yes to both questions. I feel it in my very being that by faith, we can know with all certainty that God exists and what his purpose was for creating us.
 
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Perhaps God hears sincere prayer, in whatever 'religion' and responds personally to every sincerely seeking soul. Religion is essentially an institution. An institution substitutes rules for having to think independently. God leads one to religion, or one to change religion, or one to exist without 'religion', that is between one and God. One needs 'religion'. One abuses 'religion'. God always knows.
 
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The problem with ticking the boxes is this: God reveals His truth in the Bible and only the Bible, because the God of the Bible says in the Bible that the Bible, and only the Bible, is the Truth: every word true, and if you can't agree, you're not a good person and bye bye?
 
I wish I hadn't written it. I just see armies killing for their books of 'every word true'. I wish I'd stayed away from this.
 
Christians don't own God. It's not a club.
 
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