Miracle vs Blessing

[Thomas]

Hi WHB — and greetings ...

The first is the Mu'jiza (miracle) ...

Interesting. We don't have that dimension as far as I am aware in the traditional Christian outlook.

The second is called Karama (marvels) ...

Roughly the same as we understand it, a 'gratuitous gift'.

The third is called istidraj (deception) and this is found in people of corrupt faith and beliefs. This is done as a means to confirm the corrupt in their corruptions.

We dismiss such claims as false.

The point behind my adding that Sufi saying is to point out the purpose of all of it - none of the blessings and marvels are meant except to remind a person to be grateful for the signs of their Lord upon them.

Interesting. In St John's Gospel, he does not refer to 'miracles' but to 'signs'.

 

[Thomas]

A quick thought inspired by WHB's post —

The idea of 'explaining' miracles requires two things:
1: A full and complete understanding of the Mind of God (which I suggest is itself a flawed notion).
2: A full and complete understanding of creation (ditto).
3: The assumption that nothing lies beyond the capacity of the empirical sciences to measure and define.

The idea that the empirical sciences will one day 'explain' miracles and, technology being available, would be able to reproduce them under laboratory conditions, fails to comprehend the reality of miracles, and simply includes it among as-yet unexplained physical phenomena.

I rather think that even the ancient mind could see the distinction between a 'wonder' — an inexplicable phenomena, and the 'miraculous' which transcends it.

Having said that, WHB's explanations are entirely adequate in themselves, as I get the impression WHB is aware that 'the Lord moves in a mysterious way' or as Our Lord says: "What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter" (John 13:7)

 

[wil]

1: A full and complete understanding of the Mind of God (which I suggest is itself a flawed notion).
2: A full and complete understanding of creation (ditto).

Flawed notion that one can have a complete understanding?

 

[Devils' Advocate]

The idea that the empirical sciences will one day 'explain' miracles and, technology being available, would be able to reproduce them under laboratory conditions, fails to comprehend the reality of miracles, and simply includes it among as-yet unexplained physical phenomena.

Completely agree with this. The empirical sciences will never be able to reproduce miracles in laboratory conditions, or in any other form either for that matter. Miracles are not simply unexplained physical phenomena. They are events that break the code upon which reality runs.

 

[Thomas]

Flawed notion that one can have a complete understanding?

Of course. One is not God.

 

[wil]

Of course. One is not God.

I was just asking to confirm understanding.... There were not enough words for me to be completely sure.

 

[wil]

Completely agree with this. The empirical sciences will never be able to reproduce miracles in laboratory conditions, or in any other form either for that matter. Miracles are not simply unexplained physical phenomena. They are events that break the code upon which reality runs.

I have yet read anything that moves me from there are no miracles and everything is a miracle.

 

[Thomas]

I have yet read anything that moves me from there are no miracles and everything is a miracle.

LOL. From the sentimental pov, I agree, in some ways it's a response to the ultimate metaphysical question: Why is there anything at all?

But it's not a metaphysical nor even a philosophically answer, really, it's a non-sequitor which renders the term 'miracle' meaningless.

 

[Devils' Advocate]

Perhaps it helps to use miracle (not capitalized) for the wonder of how reality works, and Miracle (capitalized) for those times when an event has broken the rules of reality. An easy way to differentiate which one you are referring to.

 

[wil]

If one is to believe the religious... Life forming, humans being the top of the food chain, it is all a miracle (all breaking the rules of reality, all creations of G!d)

there are no miracles and everything is a miracle.

 

[wil]

And then having nothing but conjecture, hearsay and circumstantial evidence

there are no Miracles and everything is a miracle.

Should satisfy the irreligious as well

 

[Thomas]

Perhaps it helps to use miracle (not capitalized) for the wonder of how reality works, and Miracle (capitalized) for those times when an event has broken the rules of reality. An easy way to differentiate which one you are referring to.

That makes sense.

 

[wil]

I actually do that with many things...

Things I know not to do but do, are different than things I Know not to do and don't.

Sometimes I am listening, others I am Listening.. I have an understanding is different from I Understand.

There exists our lowercase and Higher case words, thought and deeds.

 

[dreamytrident]

Hi.

I believe that The Biblical idea of a Blessing may be similar to what the pastor considers a blessing.

However in The Greek Language the Greek word blessing is Greek 2129 εὐλογία / eulogia - = Yyoo-log-ee'-ah

Meaning = Fine speaking, Elegance of language; commendation (“eulogy”), that is, (reverentially) adoration; religiously, benediction; by implication consecration; by extension benefit or largess: - blessing (a matter of) bounty (X -tifully), fair speech.

Blessings in the bible are both verbal and physical and also Blessings are sometimes Miracles as well. I would agree with The Pastor that Miracles are always blessings but blessings are not always miracles.

Miracle in the Greek language is Greek 4592 σημεῖον / sēmeion - = say-mi'-on

An indication, especially ceremonially or supernaturally: - miracle, sign, token or wonder.

But there seems to be a difference in the Bible between the two. Blessings are more the cause and effect of decisions made by individuals who make right decisions and reap the benefits of making certain guided choices and moral decisions as well.