Families have their ancestor gods, tribal collections of families have their tribal gods, nation collections of tribes have their national gods, to give them survival and growth against their enemies. But men have their personal gods too: their personal amulets and charms and guiding spirits?
Do we all pray to the same God?
- Thread starter mystic
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I think that God responds to every human heart. God responds, and always did: whether Neanderthal, bronze age, Japanese, Red Indian, Roman or modern New Yorker -- individual man has always had a personal relationship with God. If he seeks it. Its not a question of religion?
Marcus Aurelius, an early Roman emperor who disliked Christians, nevertheless addresses God as single, personal, attentive and good, it's just the way it is and always has been, imo.
Marcus Aurelius, an early Roman emperor who disliked Christians, nevertheless addresses God as single, personal, attentive and good, it's just the way it is and always has been, imo.
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Bhaktajan II
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Will, are you expecting me to think that you are a scholar on africa, asia and the americas' aboriginal & pre-colomiban indigenous philosphies? Or are you saying the old question "Well who doesn't know? Who doesn't know that aboriginal & pre-colomiban indigenous folks came up with gods on their own?"
Honestly I don't remember what the Pilgrims and Cortez and Marco Polo reported ---but you'll agree that what ever was written about after Columbus' expeditions and those that followed suit is where we have gotten knowledge?
Bhaktajan II
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Japanese Shinto and Chinese Confucianism and Borneo Warrior ethos and Egyptian Kings and Romes Emperors "had a personal relationship with God"?
It olden Days the King was God.
Bhaktajan, are you expecting me to think that you are a scholar on africa, asia and the americas' aboriginal & pre-colomiban indigenous philosphies?
It seems that we have petroglyphs, native stories, long before Christians landed on our shores...the main reasons to send Christian Missionairies into tribal lands (In the Americas, Middle East, Far East, and Africa) is to get those poor savage pagans who know know better to quit worshipping their gods and bring them the good news...
But what do I know... You have any evidence for your point that predates the aboriginal stories from around the world??
It seems that we have petroglyphs, native stories, long before Christians landed on our shores...the main reasons to send Christian Missionairies into tribal lands (In the Americas, Middle East, Far East, and Africa) is to get those poor savage pagans who know know better to quit worshipping their gods and bring them the good news...
But what do I know... You have any evidence for your point that predates the aboriginal stories from around the world??
Bhaktajan II
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"IF" is a poem by Kipling.
By what you say, this gives credence to what I have said. It is the great from up on high that informs the populous of higher ways and paths.
The Romans were famous for NOT converting anyone into Roman thinking [as long as they paid taxes/tribute]:
" the Roman empire spread onto three continents and held more than one-fifth of the Earth's population. Rome allowed its diverse peoples to practice their own religions as long as they also made offerings to Roman gods. People of most religions agreed to this arrangement."
“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”
― Marcus Aurelius
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An old maxim:
"Whatever action a great man performs, common men follow. And whatever standards he sets by exemplary acts, all the world pursues." -BG 3.21
By what you say, this gives credence to what I have said. It is the great from up on high that informs the populous of higher ways and paths.
The Romans were famous for NOT converting anyone into Roman thinking [as long as they paid taxes/tribute]:
" the Roman empire spread onto three continents and held more than one-fifth of the Earth's population. Rome allowed its diverse peoples to practice their own religions as long as they also made offerings to Roman gods. People of most religions agreed to this arrangement."
“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”
― Marcus Aurelius
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
An old maxim:
"Whatever action a great man performs, common men follow. And whatever standards he sets by exemplary acts, all the world pursues." -BG 3.21
Bhaktajan II
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Do as the Big cool guys do:
KATE MOSS AND MARK WAHLBERG, 1992
25 years ago Marky-Mark started the baggy pants fad ---and it is still reaching its zenith!
KATE MOSS AND MARK WAHLBERG, 1992
25 years ago Marky-Mark started the baggy pants fad ---and it is still reaching its zenith!
Bhaktajan II
Hare Krishna Yogi
- Messages
- 2,277
- Reaction score
- 115
- Points
- 63
Bhaktajan II
Hare Krishna Yogi
- Messages
- 2,277
- Reaction score
- 115
- Points
- 63
My presumption is that brute man became sophisticated via outside influences ---AND they were lucky if the got the whole scoop correct or
No. But I can brag about how well I know "Stupid" [not a reference to your good self].
I am street wise. I am NOT referring to scholarly natives with time to ponder spirituality.
Btw, it is great pains and hardship that cause man to ponder higher forces.
No. But I can brag about how well I know "Stupid" [not a reference to your good self].
I am street wise. I am NOT referring to scholarly natives with time to ponder spirituality.
Btw, it is great pains and hardship that cause man to ponder higher forces.
Bhaktajan II
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"Those miscreants who are grossly foolish, lowest among mankind, whose knowledge is stolen by illusion, and who partake of the atheistic nature of demons do not surrender unto God."
(1) grossly foolish persons, (2) the lowest of mankind, (3) the deluded speculators, and (4) the professed atheists, as above mentioned, never surrender.
versus
Four kinds of pious men render devotional service unto God—the distressed, the desirer of wealth, the inquisitive, and he who is searching for knowledge of the Absolute. Out of these there are four classes of men—those who are sometimes distressed, those who are in need of money, those who are sometimes inquisitive, and those who are sometimes searching after knowledge of the Absolute Truth. These persons come to the Supreme Lord for devotional service under different conditions. These are not pure devotees because they have some aspiration to fulfill in exchange for devotional service. Pure devotional service is without aspiration and without desire for material profit.
(1) grossly foolish persons, (2) the lowest of mankind, (3) the deluded speculators, and (4) the professed atheists, as above mentioned, never surrender.
versus
Four kinds of pious men render devotional service unto God—the distressed, the desirer of wealth, the inquisitive, and he who is searching for knowledge of the Absolute. Out of these there are four classes of men—those who are sometimes distressed, those who are in need of money, those who are sometimes inquisitive, and those who are sometimes searching after knowledge of the Absolute Truth. These persons come to the Supreme Lord for devotional service under different conditions. These are not pure devotees because they have some aspiration to fulfill in exchange for devotional service. Pure devotional service is without aspiration and without desire for material profit.
Bhaktajan II
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For 14,000 years, no one had been able to read Egyptian hieroglyphs until Napoleon's army stumbled upon the Rosetta Stone which unlocked the language of the pharaohs.
All those petroglyphs & hieroglyphs were about the acts and fame of the Kings' lineage ---so again, the higher stratums of society took measures to educate the less fortunate.
Yea the Christians and Muslims introduced their abrahamic monotheistic version of G!d...to peoples who already had gods...
There is tons of evidence that this predated white mans exploration and colonization...but you have evidence otherwise?
Bhaktajan II
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This is the same question I ask about modern day Wicca, Santaria & Santa Muerte ['Patron saint of Narcos'] ---where do they get the notion? They made it up as they went.
Bhaktajan II
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The worship of Santa Muerte also attracts those who are not inclined to seek the traditional Catholic Church for spiritual solace, as it is part of the "legitimate" sector of society. Many followers of Santa Muerte live on the margins of the law or outside it entirely. Many street vendors, taxi drivers, vendors of counterfeit merchandise, street people, prostitutes, pickpockets, petty drug traffickers and gangmembers are not practicing Catholics or Protestants, but neither are they atheists.[3]
In essence they have created their own new religion that reflects their realities, identity, and practices, especially since it speaks to the violence and struggles for life that many of these people face.[3] Conversely both police and military in Mexico can be counted among the faithful who ask for blessings on their weapons and ammunition.[3]
While worship is largely based in poor neighborhoods, Santa Muerte is also venerated in affluent areas such as Mexico City's Condesaand Coyoacán districts.[17] However, negative media coverage of the worship and condemnation by the Catholic Church in Mexico and certain Protestant denominations have influenced public perception of the cult of Santa Muerte. With the exception of some artists and politicians, some of whom perform rituals secretly, those in higher socioeconomic strata look upon the veneration with distaste as a form of superstition.[5]
Association with the LGBT community
Santa Muerte is also seen as a protector of homosexual, bisexual, and transgender communities in Mexico,[33] since many are considered to be outcast from society.[34] Many LGBT people ask her for protection from violence, hatred, disease, and to help them in their search for love.[35][36]
Her intercession is commonly invoked in same-sex marriage ceremonies performed in Mexico.[37][38] The Iglesia Católica Tradicional México-Estados Unidos, also known as the Church of Santa Muerte, recognizes gay marriage and performs religious wedding ceremonies for homosexual couples.[39][40][41][42]
Association with criminality
In the Mexican and U.S. press, the Santa Muerte cult is often associated with violence, criminality, and the illegal drug trade.[43] She is a popular deity in prisons, both among inmates and staff, and shrines dedicated to her can be found in many cells.[44][17][45] The majority of believers are poor people who are not necessarily criminals, but the public belief in her by several drug traffickers and small numbers of other petty criminals has indirectly associated her with crime, especially low-level organized crime.[19]
In Mexico, authorities have linked the worship of Santa Muerte to prostitution, drug trafficking, kidnapping, smuggling, andhomicides.[3][6][16] Criminals, among her most fervent believers, are likely to pray to her for successful completion of a job as well as escaping from the police or jail. In the north of Mexico, she is venerated along with Jesús Malverde, the so-called "Saint of Drug Traffickers". Malverde's following is strong, especially in his home state of Sinaloa, but the symbol of Santa Muerte is much more aggressive.[46]
Altars with images of Santa Muerte have been found in many drug houses in both Mexico and the United States.[3] Among Santa Muerte's more famous devotees are kidnapper Daniel Arizmendi López, known as El Mochaorejas, and Gilberto García Mena, one of the bosses of the Gulf Cartel.[17][45] In March 2012, the Sonora State Investigative Police announced that they had arrested eight people for murder for allegedly having performed a human sacrifice of a woman and two ten-year-old boys to Santa Muerte (see: Silvia Meraz).[47]
In December 2010, the self-proclaimed bishop David Romo was arrested on charges of banking funds of a kidnapping gang linked to acartel. He continues to lead his sect from his prison, but it is unfeasible for Romo or anyone else to gain dominance over the Santa Muerte cult. Her faith is spreading rapidly and "organically" from town to town, so that is easy to become a preacher or messianic figure. Drug lords, like that of La Familia Cartel, take advantage of "gangster foot soldiers'" vulnerability and enforced religious obedience to establish a holy meaning to their cause that would keep their soldiers disciplined.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Muerte
In essence they have created their own new religion that reflects their realities, identity, and practices, especially since it speaks to the violence and struggles for life that many of these people face.[3] Conversely both police and military in Mexico can be counted among the faithful who ask for blessings on their weapons and ammunition.[3]
While worship is largely based in poor neighborhoods, Santa Muerte is also venerated in affluent areas such as Mexico City's Condesaand Coyoacán districts.[17] However, negative media coverage of the worship and condemnation by the Catholic Church in Mexico and certain Protestant denominations have influenced public perception of the cult of Santa Muerte. With the exception of some artists and politicians, some of whom perform rituals secretly, those in higher socioeconomic strata look upon the veneration with distaste as a form of superstition.[5]
Association with the LGBT community
Santa Muerte is also seen as a protector of homosexual, bisexual, and transgender communities in Mexico,[33] since many are considered to be outcast from society.[34] Many LGBT people ask her for protection from violence, hatred, disease, and to help them in their search for love.[35][36]
Her intercession is commonly invoked in same-sex marriage ceremonies performed in Mexico.[37][38] The Iglesia Católica Tradicional México-Estados Unidos, also known as the Church of Santa Muerte, recognizes gay marriage and performs religious wedding ceremonies for homosexual couples.[39][40][41][42]
Association with criminality
In the Mexican and U.S. press, the Santa Muerte cult is often associated with violence, criminality, and the illegal drug trade.[43] She is a popular deity in prisons, both among inmates and staff, and shrines dedicated to her can be found in many cells.[44][17][45] The majority of believers are poor people who are not necessarily criminals, but the public belief in her by several drug traffickers and small numbers of other petty criminals has indirectly associated her with crime, especially low-level organized crime.[19]
In Mexico, authorities have linked the worship of Santa Muerte to prostitution, drug trafficking, kidnapping, smuggling, andhomicides.[3][6][16] Criminals, among her most fervent believers, are likely to pray to her for successful completion of a job as well as escaping from the police or jail. In the north of Mexico, she is venerated along with Jesús Malverde, the so-called "Saint of Drug Traffickers". Malverde's following is strong, especially in his home state of Sinaloa, but the symbol of Santa Muerte is much more aggressive.[46]
Altars with images of Santa Muerte have been found in many drug houses in both Mexico and the United States.[3] Among Santa Muerte's more famous devotees are kidnapper Daniel Arizmendi López, known as El Mochaorejas, and Gilberto García Mena, one of the bosses of the Gulf Cartel.[17][45] In March 2012, the Sonora State Investigative Police announced that they had arrested eight people for murder for allegedly having performed a human sacrifice of a woman and two ten-year-old boys to Santa Muerte (see: Silvia Meraz).[47]
In December 2010, the self-proclaimed bishop David Romo was arrested on charges of banking funds of a kidnapping gang linked to acartel. He continues to lead his sect from his prison, but it is unfeasible for Romo or anyone else to gain dominance over the Santa Muerte cult. Her faith is spreading rapidly and "organically" from town to town, so that is easy to become a preacher or messianic figure. Drug lords, like that of La Familia Cartel, take advantage of "gangster foot soldiers'" vulnerability and enforced religious obedience to establish a holy meaning to their cause that would keep their soldiers disciplined.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Muerte
Bhaktajan II
Hare Krishna Yogi
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Maybe this will help...
http://www.bu.edu/arion/archive/volume-18/colin_wells_how_did_god_get-started/
http://www.bu.edu/arion/archive/volume-18/colin_wells_how_did_god_get-started/
I think perhaps what an ordinary person thinks in the privacy of his own mind does not often reflect official state thinking?
Does spiritual meditation only happen to scholars? But they had lots of hardship, and lots of time to ponder. They didn't spend all their time being brutal
Bhaktajan II
Hare Krishna Yogi
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