Jesus coming back?

What support does anyone have regarding the time?
None, I would have thought.

We have seen the doom and gloom and end is near our entire lives and it has been going on for 2000 years now.
I'm not so sure. That kind of thing is nigh-on non-existent in European Christianity. There were millennial spasms, sure, but I don't think it's been an ever-present question in peoples lives for 2000 years.

It is written that he will return and every bible author thought that would be in their lifetime...and was looking forward to the day...
I think you've been misled there? I thought Paul tackled the issue right from the outset. And the Johannine literature.

If you look at the early fathers, then there's a variety of speculation. Some thought the parousia would happen 1000 years after the crucifixion (the cyclic view of time, again). Others thought it was already here — Christ is present in the Church — the End Times being the final recapitulation. all sorts of ideas, but it's not really mainstream, nor a pre-occupation.
 
Of course, in Catholic and Orthodox circles, He is here ...
 
Of course, in Catholic and Orthodox circles, He is here ...
really?

"...he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. ... We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen."

It is the traditional view of Roman Catholics and Orthodox Christians, preserved from the early Church, that the second coming will be a sudden and unmistakable incident, like "a flash of lightning".[Mt 24:27] They hold the general view that Jesus will not spend any time on the earth in ministry or preaching.[14] They also agree that the ministry of the Antichrist will take place right before the Second Coming.[14]

So this is heaven on earth?....hmmm
 
LOL, yes ... really. In spirit, obviously, unless we're to believe one of the various contenders for the position ... eight currently, according to wiki

So this is heaven on earth?
Not yet.

Consider ...

'Heavenly' bodies are spiritual bodies.

'Earthly' bodies (eg seas, lakes, mountains, planets, suns, stars, galaxies ...) are physical bodies.

'Human' bodies, are both spiritual and physical.

Being in the nature of the good to realise/transmit itself, a human body is 'superior' to a heavenly body because a human, by definition, is body and soul.

Spirit bodies are superior in that they are true to what they are.

When humans are equally as true to their own nature, then you will see mountains moved! But disembodied humans are lesser than their nature ...

"... do you not know that the Lord's people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world ... Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!" 1 Corinthians 6:2-3.
 
I'll repeat...what happened to...

We believe....

"...he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. ... We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen."

Do these oft repeated words not contradict.
Of course, in Catholic and Orthodox circles, He is here ...
 
Do these oft repeated words not contradict.
Nope.

We all live in the hope of the parousia:

"Behold, I tell you a mystery.
We shall all indeed rise again: but we shall not all be changed.
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet:
for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall rise again incorruptible:
and we shall be changed.

For this corruptible must put on incorruption;
and this mortal must put on immortality.
And when this mortal hath put on immortality,
then shall come to pass the saying that is written:
Death is swallowed up in victory.

O death, where is thy victory?
O death, where is thy sting?"
1 Corinthians 15 51-54

The presence now is a spiritual presence, but the time will come when it is a presence 'all in all' — not just the illumination of a few, or even of many, but of the whole creation.

I wonder ...

In my anti-gnostic-rant moments I ask: What's the point of the cosmos, why bother creating something out of nothing, if all it means is we're dumped down here from the spiritual realm, suffer all manner of trials and tribulations as we try and crawl our way out, and then when we've done it, we bugger off back to the spiritual realm and leave the cosmos to go hang ... that doesn't seem a good and seemly fate for that which God saw as 'good', as Genesis tells us ...

So the enlightenment we experience now, the spiritual comforts, the sense of His immanent presence, is all a premonition, all 'through a glass and darkly' (1 Corinthians 13:12), but then not just man, but the entire cosmos will be transfigured, and Christ will be all in all, and we in Him, and Him is us ... then we shall party hard, dude! :)

"The judgement is the judgement of the world:
If then any be in Christ a new creature, the old things are passed away,
behold all things are made new.
But all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Christ;
and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation.
For God indeed was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself,
not imputing to them their sins;
and he hath placed in us the word of reconciliation."

Why then, for the love of God Almighty, do we bang on so much about sin and sex and perdition and hellfire and burning and blah, blah, blah ...

"For Christ therefore we are ambassadors,
God as it were exhorting by us.
For Christ, we beseech you, be reconciled to God."
2 Corinthians 5 17-20

His news is the Gospel. In Greek it's 'evangelion' and means 'good news'

It's a crap ambassador for anyone/anything if all he can do is bang on about how shitty we are and how much shit we're in and how we're gonna suffer for it ... :mad:

Oh dear ... and I was full of the joys of spring this morning! :D
 
I'll repeat...what happened to...

We believe....

"...he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. ... We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen."

Do these oft repeated words not contradict.
Wil, less literal and more spooky spooky mystesism!
 
Wow...

i believe he is here on earth...always has been
I believe he is sitting by G!d
I believe he is coming again
We look forward to the resurrection....

but no contradiction... and a 10 paragraph explanation with a bunch of latin I can't work my head around at all??

And I am to literal?

from zero to even...I can't.
 
I see no contradiction either.

"...he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end....

Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven...​

In other words, Heaven will be established here on earth. All will be judged, believers and non-believers alike.

We look forward to the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen."

The spiritually dead rising in divine truth and Heaven and Earth being as one forevermore.
 
Will be? So he is back? And it is not done?

Please make up your mind...he is either back...and this is post appcalypse...or it is not, and he isn't...
 
Will be? So he is back? And it is not done?
"...he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end....
I don't understand what you're not getting here. God is with us in spirit always. He in us, us in him. He came to us physically. Emmanuel, God with us. Mathew 1:23. He died on the cross, ascended to heaven and will physically return again on the 7th trump. Revelation 8-11:
 
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So the HE IS HERE... is only in spirit...

That is what I was taking literally from people who literally believe bread and wine....

Ok, my bad.
 
That is what I was taking literally from people who literally believe bread and wine....
Why are you saying this, it is both ignorant and condescending.

We have been through this before but I'll try again. Yes you interpret the words you read in a 'this or that', 'true or false', 'fact or myth' sort of way.

The reason you miss a lot of what is said is because you have no interest in and no understanding of mysticism. When a Christian says that Jesus is in heaven you assume they mean a place that is geographically different from where we are. Which isn't always the case. I think you should know this by now.

You failing to understand is because your own limitations, not that these other people are irrational or stupid. Please try to keep that in mind.
 
What support does anyone have regarding the time? We have seen the doom and gloom and end is near our entire lives and it has been going on for 2000 years now.

It is written that he will return and every bible author thought that would be in their lifetime...and was looking forward to the day...

But did anyone write that he was gonna be back in 2000 years?

Jesus seemed to imply that he would pop back down to Earth during the lifetime of his disciples! I suspect if Christianity is still a faith 2000 years hence, some might still be expecting him to come back. I am of the opinion that once he died he stayed dead.
 
Here is the thing... It is my understanding from my Jewish friends...the reason that they do not believe Jesus is their messiah is there were criteria as to what would happen when the Messiah came... and these things obviously did not happen.

In our Christian theology there are also descriptions of what would happen when Jesus returned...and these have not happened.

I quoted the Creed which I am told is essential part of Christianity...indicating what "We believe"

I am told that in orthodox and Catholic circles "He is here"...

I am having one helluva time reconciling all these statements....and in response to repeated questions get ridden around in circles (not unlike our friend BII in the meat eating thread) And am getting hollered at for being ignorant and condescending for asking questions and asking for the answers to make sense.

Sorry but this is the exact same reason I left the church in the third grade....that inquiry is heresy.

If Jesus is back....where are the promises?
 
Here is the thing... It is my understanding from my Jewish friends...the reason that they do not believe Jesus is their messiah is there were criteria as to what would happen when the Messiah came... and these things obviously did not happen.

In our Christian theology there are also descriptions of what would happen when Jesus returned...and these have not happened.

I quoted the Creed which I am told is essential part of Christianity...indicating what "We believe"

I am told that in orthodox and Catholic circles "He is here"...

I am having one helluva time reconciling all these statements....and in response to repeated questions get ridden around in circles (not unlike our friend BII in the meat eating thread) And am getting hollered at for being ignorant and condescending for asking questions and asking for the answers to make sense.

Sorry but this is the exact same reason I left the church in the third grade....that inquiry is heresy.

If Jesus is back....where are the promises?
But these are all good questions, I don't think you are wrong to ask them, I think that they are excellent!
It is the implication that there are no good answered I object to.
There are different perspectives to consider depending on the context. Like right now in this section Jewish theology has limited relevance. They can say something about the exact same thing as Christians and it will bare no importance.
[And yes, the same thing goes for scientific perspectives, I'll see if I can find some examples but don't hold your breath]
 
I think Jewish theology is quite important to Christians and Christianity....

Every author of the New Testament was a Jew. 2/3 of the Bible is the Torah. The ten commandments are Jewish (we just skip 560).

The question being discussed is when will Jesus come back, when was it expected?
Jesus seemed to imply that he would pop back down to Earth during the lifetime of his disciples!
It sure appears that is what the disciples thought.

Peace on earth...while I know we are more peaceful than ever...we still have a long way to go.
 
I think Jewish theology is quite important to Christians and Christianity....
Jewish and Christian theology work from different assumptions, I think it is self-evident that we need to treat them as different religions that would come to different conclusions. No?
 
Yes one is looking for the messiah to appear.....the other for the messiah to return?

What are the assumptions of which you speak?

Christianity is based on Judaism...if it weren't the bible would be one third the size and we would have no religious issues in America on homosexuality...(amazingly most Jews have no issues, and Christians use the Jewish portion of our bible to justify their disdain)
 
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