Jesus coming back?

[A Cup Of Tea]

Ok, I'll switch it. Are there any differences between the two religions?

 

[wil]

Judaism places emphasis on right conduct (or orthopraxy), focusing on the Mosaic Covenant, as recorded in the Torah and Talmud.

Christians believe in individual salvation from sin through repentance and receiving Jesus Christ as their God and Savior through Faith in Christianity.

 

[A Cup Of Tea]

But you don't think those two differences are relevant when discussing the return of Christ?

 

[wil]

to reiterate...

I was just making the point that the Jews were looking for a Christ to come...and would know when he arrived as he would be fulfilling a set of promises..

Christians are looking for Christ to return and would know when he arrived as he would be fulfilling a set of promises...

He is risen...I understand...but after that according to the stories

Of course, in Catholic and Orthodox circles, He is here ...

Which I have yet to come to grips with... especially in conjunction with

"...he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. ... We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen."

It is the traditional view of Roman Catholics and Orthodox Christians, preserved from the early Church, that the second coming will be a sudden and unmistakable incident, like "a flash of lightning".[Mt 24:27] They hold the general view that Jesus will not spend any time on the earth in ministry or preaching.[14] They also agree that the ministry of the Antichrist will take place right before the Second Coming.[14]

is he here...and fulfilling prophecy...or biding his time...or seated at the right hand of the Father?

And yeah, the disciples expected him in his time...but we have no time now to expect him...and surely not in our lifetime...as many have thought and been disappointed.

 

[Namaste Jesus]

Which I have yet to come to grips with...

Why?

Of course, in Catholic and Orthodox circles, He is here ...

really?

LOL, yes ... really. In spirit, obviously ...

God is with us in spirit always. He in us, us in him.

I don't get what you're not getting here.

That is what I was taking literally from people who literally believe bread and wine....

Yes, Orthodox Christians tend to believe that the bread and wine of the Eucharist are literally transformed into the real body and blood of Christ. If I understand correctly, just for the purpose of communion in that moment. I take it as spiritual, they take it as literal. Just a difference in the way we look at it. Amounts to the same thing though and doesn't contradict anything in the creed. The judgment and kingdom of God is still yet to come....

Yes, many have speculated as to when that might be, but as Matthew 24:36 clearly states: But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

 

[wil]

We don't disagree NJ...

my confusion... Is he here? have the prophecies been fulfilled.... Or is he at the right hand of the father... and not returned yet...

That is the entire nature of my question that I have been forced to ask ten different ways and still not get an answer.

 

[Namaste Jesus]

my confusion... Is he here? have the prophecies been fulfilled....

Well, from my perspective, he has fulfilled the prophecies up to this point and will fulfill the remainder upon his return. That according to scripture will not occur until after the antichrist arrives posing as Jesus.

 

[Arif Ghamiq]

I just want clarity on the belief here - curious. Will the Anti-Christ literally claim to be Jesus - saying "I am Jesus", instead of just being a false Prophet?

 

[wil]

Well, from my perspective, he has fulfilled the prophecies up to this point and will fulfill the remainder upon his return. That according to scripture will not occur until after the antichrist arrives posing as Jesus.

I guess that makes us unorthodox....oops...we already knew that.

I just want clarity on the belief here - curious. Will the Anti-Christ literally claim to be Jesus - saying "I am Jesus", instead of just being a false Prophet?

No clue from this corner.

 

[Namaste Jesus]

I just want clarity on the belief here - curious. Will the Anti-Christ literally claim to be Jesus - saying "I am Jesus", instead of just being a false Prophet?

I suppose that's a matter of interpretation, but from my perspective I'd say yes, he will claim to be Jesus or at least deny Jesus as the Messiah, claiming the title for himself.

Thessalonians 2:4 “Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.”

 

[Aussie Thoughts]

For what it's worth, I think Jesus is very much here. Not in the physical sense of being [right here], but rather [here] in the sense that he rose from the grave both body and soul thereby defeating death and doth still live, poised to return at the appropriate time.

 

[Thomas]

Here is the thing... It is my understanding from my Jewish friends...

Probably not a good place to start.

In our Christian theology there are also descriptions of what would happen when Jesus returned...and these have not happened.

Quite.

I am told that in orthodox and Catholic circles "He is here"..."

"And he that shall receive one such little child in my name, receiveth me."(Matthew 18:5)
"For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." (Matthew 18:20)
There's plenty of evidence ...

I am having one helluva time reconciling all these statements...

I fail to see why ...

We see now through a glass in a dark manner; but then face to face. Now I know in part; but then I shall know even as I am known." (1 Corinthians 13:12)

"No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abideth in us, and his charity is perfected in us. In this we know that we abide in him, and he in us: because he hath given us of his spirit." (1 John 4:12-13)

"We know, that, when he shall appear, we shall be like to him: because we shall see him as he is." (1 John 3:2)

The difference is the Immanent Presence is a spiritual thing, it can change a person, but his neighbour need not necessarily know, and the world remains the same. The Parousia, however, will encompass the cosmos.

Sorry but this is the exact same reason I left the church in the third grade....that inquiry is heresy.

I really believe a third grader is hardly capable of heresy.

Nor is that inquiry heretical ...[/QUOTE]

 

[Thomas]

Christianity is based on Judaism...if it weren't the bible would be one third the size and we would have no religious issues in America on homosexuality...(amazingly most Jews have no issues, and Christians use the Jewish portion of our bible to justify their disdain)

I think I'm inclined to agree with ACOT that you're given to making sweeping generalisations that rather point to an a prior negative attitude towards the subject.

Perhaps it's because of your rejection of 'the mystical' rather limits what you see in the text and in the teachings.

 

[wil]

Got ya...that is as I understand the thought...

 

[wil]

that was addressed to Aussie the understanding...

But Thomas...

As to the mystical...I understand it...and understand the in the midst not to be physical...but the essence that 'he is with us' behind us, supporting us...

If you'd plainly say the "He is Here" is not literal but in that sense... I'd have stopped that line of questioning many posts ago.

But if you are indicating that he has returned... in the sense that most Chrisitan's over here expect him to return I am left confused.

The dance from I am now switching from metaphor, allegory, metaphysics and literal...in the same post makes it all unclear (although decidedly defendable)

 

[Thomas]

As to the mystical... I understand it... and understand the in the midst not to be physical...

Quite, although I think you see the mystical in a more human/rationalist sense than I, but that's by-the-by.

but the essence that 'he is with us' behind us, supporting us...

Here we get into uncertain ground about what either of us actually mean in what we're saying ... I do not mean that He is there like some shadow puppet master pulling strings or organising events – I do not believe in God as micromanager.

If you'd plainly say the "He is Here" is not literal but in that sense...

Well, it's literal in the spiritual sense.

But if you are indicating that he has returned... in the sense that most Chrisitan's over here expect him to return I am left confused.

If you mean, is He physically present, walking and talking, then no.

I agree with Aussie's comment. He is 'here' in a million ways, the Sacraments not the least of them.

 

[wil]

If you mean, is He physically present, walking and talking, then no..

Whew....gad that took a lot.