Raising Children in religion
- Thread starter wil
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In my mind, that would be dependent on what your belief is and how it is taught. In other words, simply raising a child in the traditions of a particular religion does not amount to brainwashing to me. I think where indoctrination enters that realm, is when those traditions are taught in such a way that leads a child to despise those of differing faiths, races and/or nationalities.
Bhaktajan II
Hare Krishna Yogi
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First let me confirm I am a Western Hindu via the Krishna consciousness movement.
[I state this because it bolsters my street-cred regarding such a topic]
Now, I will state: "We are brainwashed. Brainwashed is what caused 1WW and 2WW. We are alot more brainwashed than our grandparents. We pay & work & tax & teach & propagate a standard of brainwashing to the point where we are numb to its affects."
Hippies were an example of youth breaking away ... but they found no where to find refuge. Wherever that found a little spot back then...is now a vacation resort.
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With children: the watch word is "incongruence"
When you take one position on something and then a second later you take a contrary position, this is an example of a situation where your statements would be described as incongruent.
We say one thing to a child and then do the opposite.
We are in a rat race, dog-eat-dog, hamster wheel ---temporal material sense-gratifying, self-centered, sucker born everyday circus of jungles mad-men casting adverts for the masses musical chairs amusement ring.
That is the congruent truth.
Yet, Achievers somehow get this instilled in them and they take the leadership roles and form the pillars of societies.
[I state this because it bolsters my street-cred regarding such a topic]
Now, I will state: "We are brainwashed. Brainwashed is what caused 1WW and 2WW. We are alot more brainwashed than our grandparents. We pay & work & tax & teach & propagate a standard of brainwashing to the point where we are numb to its affects."
Hippies were an example of youth breaking away ... but they found no where to find refuge. Wherever that found a little spot back then...is now a vacation resort.
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
With children: the watch word is "incongruence"
When you take one position on something and then a second later you take a contrary position, this is an example of a situation where your statements would be described as incongruent.
We say one thing to a child and then do the opposite.
We are in a rat race, dog-eat-dog, hamster wheel ---temporal material sense-gratifying, self-centered, sucker born everyday circus of jungles mad-men casting adverts for the masses musical chairs amusement ring.
That is the congruent truth.
Yet, Achievers somehow get this instilled in them and they take the leadership roles and form the pillars of societies.
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Bhaktajan II
Hare Krishna Yogi
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What is Inconguence?
When you were a little boy or girl, did you want to grow up to be a firefighter, a movie star or a ballet dancer? At some point you probably gave up that dream in favor of something more attainable (unless you currently are a firefighter, movie star or ballet dancer). When our dreams appear to be out of reach, the result is often frustration, stress and anxiety. Many people wind up abandoning their dreams, believing they are impossible to achieve. These individuals have learned the pain of incongruence.
Carl Rogers introduced the concept of incongruence to psychology in the 1950s. Although general use of the word has come to mean inconsistent or incompatible, Rogers had a more specific definition in mind. He defined congruence as the matching of experience and awareness. Incongruence was therefore lacking congruence, or having feelings not aligned with your actions.
Incongruence in Therapy
Rogers is considered by many to be one of the founders of the humanistic school of thought. Humanistic psychology emphasizes the client and his or her desire to achieve goals. One of the basic principles or tenets of humanistic psychology is that human beings are intentional, aim at goals, are aware that they cause future events and seek meaning, value and creativity. Essentially, people seek to better themselves.
Rogers wrote that the client's personal change is helped when the therapist is genuine with the client and is open with the feelings he or she has at the moment. Essentially, Rogers is saying that the therapist should be 'real' with the client and that if he or she is not, the client will sense it. Rogers calls this 'being congruent.' Incongruency is, therefore, using a mask or a facade with the client in an attempt to hide the therapist's true feelings.
If there is congruency in the client-therapist relationship, each person knows where the other stands. Likewise, when incongruence is present, each individual must resort to 'mind-reading' as the other is talking to understand the person's feelings and emotions (a poor form of communication). An example of incongruence between therapist and client would be the therapist maintaining a neutral smile after listening to something the client said that was particularly 'shocking.'
Incongruence in Communication
Sometimes people say things that are contradictory to their non-verbal communication cues. The result is poor communication that leaves the listener wondering why the individual didn't say what he or she meant all along. When a person's words don't match what he or she is feeling or thinking, the communication is said to be incongruent.
An example of this would be if someone who is so angry that he or she is red in the face, answers the question 'How are you?' with, 'Fine.' The person is obviously not fine, therefore his or her answer is clearly not the truth. The individual's words and actions are incongruent.
Incongruence of the Self ....
https://study.com/academy/lesson/incongruence-in-psychology-definition-lesson-quiz.html
When you were a little boy or girl, did you want to grow up to be a firefighter, a movie star or a ballet dancer? At some point you probably gave up that dream in favor of something more attainable (unless you currently are a firefighter, movie star or ballet dancer). When our dreams appear to be out of reach, the result is often frustration, stress and anxiety. Many people wind up abandoning their dreams, believing they are impossible to achieve. These individuals have learned the pain of incongruence.
Carl Rogers introduced the concept of incongruence to psychology in the 1950s. Although general use of the word has come to mean inconsistent or incompatible, Rogers had a more specific definition in mind. He defined congruence as the matching of experience and awareness. Incongruence was therefore lacking congruence, or having feelings not aligned with your actions.
Incongruence in Therapy
Rogers is considered by many to be one of the founders of the humanistic school of thought. Humanistic psychology emphasizes the client and his or her desire to achieve goals. One of the basic principles or tenets of humanistic psychology is that human beings are intentional, aim at goals, are aware that they cause future events and seek meaning, value and creativity. Essentially, people seek to better themselves.
Rogers wrote that the client's personal change is helped when the therapist is genuine with the client and is open with the feelings he or she has at the moment. Essentially, Rogers is saying that the therapist should be 'real' with the client and that if he or she is not, the client will sense it. Rogers calls this 'being congruent.' Incongruency is, therefore, using a mask or a facade with the client in an attempt to hide the therapist's true feelings.
If there is congruency in the client-therapist relationship, each person knows where the other stands. Likewise, when incongruence is present, each individual must resort to 'mind-reading' as the other is talking to understand the person's feelings and emotions (a poor form of communication). An example of incongruence between therapist and client would be the therapist maintaining a neutral smile after listening to something the client said that was particularly 'shocking.'
Incongruence in Communication
Sometimes people say things that are contradictory to their non-verbal communication cues. The result is poor communication that leaves the listener wondering why the individual didn't say what he or she meant all along. When a person's words don't match what he or she is feeling or thinking, the communication is said to be incongruent.
An example of this would be if someone who is so angry that he or she is red in the face, answers the question 'How are you?' with, 'Fine.' The person is obviously not fine, therefore his or her answer is clearly not the truth. The individual's words and actions are incongruent.
Incongruence of the Self ....
https://study.com/academy/lesson/incongruence-in-psychology-definition-lesson-quiz.html
Aussie Thoughts
Just my 2 cents
Dad read aloud from the Good Book every Sunday at the dinner table when my brother and I were growing up. Guess that was our indoctrination into Christianity. He didn't preach or anything, just read a passage or two and we'd discuss it. He's long since passed, but I can still hear his voice plain as day. "Boy's, he'd say, what do you suppose old Paul is trying to tell us here?" He didn't teach us much about other faiths, but if ever anyone spoke ill of one he was quick to say, "A man's faith is his own. It's for no man to criticize and for no man to take away."
When I was a little older I sort of indoctrinated myself into Aboriginal culture when I ventured on down to their encampment to listen to dreamtime stories and songs. An Aboriginal schoolmate interpreted for me which confused me no end. I can remember asking my dad how they could know so much about God without ever having read the Bible. He told me that our Bible was the inspired word of God and that it served the same purpose as their paintings, stories and songs. That was enough to satisfy my young mind at the time, but I didn't fully appreciate it until much later in life.
While I haven't carried on the same Sunday dinner table tradition with my own son, I've most definitely passed on what I learned there.
When I was a little older I sort of indoctrinated myself into Aboriginal culture when I ventured on down to their encampment to listen to dreamtime stories and songs. An Aboriginal schoolmate interpreted for me which confused me no end. I can remember asking my dad how they could know so much about God without ever having read the Bible. He told me that our Bible was the inspired word of God and that it served the same purpose as their paintings, stories and songs. That was enough to satisfy my young mind at the time, but I didn't fully appreciate it until much later in life.
While I haven't carried on the same Sunday dinner table tradition with my own son, I've most definitely passed on what I learned there.
Speaking of indoctrination, something rather interesting happened last week. A few times a year at regular intervals I like to take communion at home and do an anointment. Friday of last week was one such occasion. Now, my Hindu in-laws are here visiting from Fiji and while their tradition acknowledges Christ, they don't practice Christianity of any sort. So, as I prepared the sacraments I explained to them exactly what I was doing and why. They seemed quite interested, so, not really expecting them to, I asked if they'd care to participate. To my surprise, they both eagerly said yes.
Next thing you know, I'm anointing the foreheads of two devote Hindu ladies in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit and offering them the body and blood of Christ in sacrament. Now I know why everyone in Fiji is always so pleased when I participate in their religious rituals. It just warms the heart.
Next thing you know, I'm anointing the foreheads of two devote Hindu ladies in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit and offering them the body and blood of Christ in sacrament. Now I know why everyone in Fiji is always so pleased when I participate in their religious rituals. It just warms the heart.
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They chose to "commune" with you, makes a lot of sense to me with the "community" you've created.
But I'd say when you tell your children that your belief system is the one and only true Yass Yada you are indoctrinating (it being vastly closer defined to brainwashing than instructing)
I see it more as Aussie describes his dad's readings... The stories of the scrpture (in religious books) speak to each of us for our interpretations of how they effect our lives (in that moment)
I taught my kids similarly, telling them, this is what resonates with me now... This is my understanding, my belief, I look forward to discussing all this when you have children and seeing what your beliefs are at that point in time... Alas they are to be 25 soon, they have significant others, but no talks of marriage or families yet.
I indoctrinated my kids into not discriminating by gender, race, religion, nationality, etc, I also indoctrinated them to be self sufficient in regards to cleaning, cooking, laundry, money.... When they got to college their eyes were opened as to the ways others were raised, both stateside and internationally...
But I'd say when you tell your children that your belief system is the one and only true Yass Yada you are indoctrinating (it being vastly closer defined to brainwashing than instructing)
I see it more as Aussie describes his dad's readings... The stories of the scrpture (in religious books) speak to each of us for our interpretations of how they effect our lives (in that moment)
I taught my kids similarly, telling them, this is what resonates with me now... This is my understanding, my belief, I look forward to discussing all this when you have children and seeing what your beliefs are at that point in time... Alas they are to be 25 soon, they have significant others, but no talks of marriage or families yet.
I indoctrinated my kids into not discriminating by gender, race, religion, nationality, etc, I also indoctrinated them to be self sufficient in regards to cleaning, cooking, laundry, money.... When they got to college their eyes were opened as to the ways others were raised, both stateside and internationally...
Aussie Thoughts
Just my 2 cents
A sight to behold I'd wager. Well, if anybody could pull that off......
Yeah, I do my best work when I'm not even trying.A sight to behold I'd wager. Well, if anybody could pull that off......
Seriously though, my mom-in-law tells me that she had no trouble taking communion the other day, because as far as she's concerned, even though she's not a practicing Christian, accepting me into the family already brought Jesus into their lives.
So, to borrow Thomas' phrase, guess we're a package deal.
Child abuse is something else though. It is physically and emotionally hurting a child. I went through this as a kid so let's not ask too many questions as to why I rather have been adopted or whatever.
Anyway, having a kid simply attend sunday school for example is no different than having them attend public school. Both are there to teach a child something. In the end the child decides what they want to be when they grow up.
Now if a religious or public school forces a child to be something when they grow up then that's another matter and is abuse to the child.
Anyway, having a kid simply attend sunday school for example is no different than having them attend public school. Both are there to teach a child something. In the end the child decides what they want to be when they grow up.
Now if a religious or public school forces a child to be something when they grow up then that's another matter and is abuse to the child.
Hi, 178Kristy. Welcome to the forum. What research are you referring to? Is there a source you could quote? I'm Christian myself and have been married to a Hindu woman for nearly 30 years. Her niece is also married to a Christian man. They've been together for going on 20 years now and have a teenage son.
Which bible passage do you refer to? I only can think of ‘marry in the lord’ but I can’t think of a verse which says to only marry someone of your one religion. Would a catholic be wrong to marry a Protestant for example? They have an other religion and they have their differences, but they are both Christians.
To stay a little on topic... saying that it’s child abuse to force kids in doing things they don’t like to do, is almost calling parenting child abuse. Parents force their kids to eat, drinks and go to school just because kids are supposed to do such things and those are important things to be a sufficient adult in the future. I can understand that people have struggles with parents forcing their children to learn religious stuff and all. But on the other side: the parents do what they think would save their children and what’s necessarily for them to become good adults. Isn’t it the choice of the parents what they learn their children and the choice of their children what they believe?
A Cup Of Tea
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To an extent. Your position seems to elevate intent over consequence? No mater the consequences if the intent was good the act was good?
It is a moral philosophy but hardly universally accepted.
I don't think the question is whether the kids want to do or learn something... it is what they are being 'forced' to learn that is in question.
How about racism, it is the choice of the parent to teach that some minorities are inferior right? It is the choice of the parent to teach that some religions teach hate, therefor we should hate them... Would it make sense to teach children roman mythology as truth?
I understand your point, and it’s a good one. But I can’t see a way to avoid parents teaching their kids racism or roman mythologie, even tho it’s bad or doesn’t make sense. Who would tell them to not teach their children that? Then somebody has to decide for the parents what’s best for their children and what they are not aloud to do. And that person has to decide what teachings are racist and which are not. But isn’t that against the freedom of the parents?
I think school has a major influence on all of this to sort out the good behaviour and the bad. School had to be neutral and has to reflect the common thoughts of the population. If kids are learning that Jewish kids, for example, are bad, they can change their opinion based on their own experience with Jewish children on school. I’m not saying that it’s right for parents to teach kids racism or very strong religious thoughts. But I do think that parents are free to teach their children according to their own believe and thinking path and that it would be very hard to restrict parents in what they can learn to their children. The bad behaviors which can come from their raising could be fixed with good education on school.
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Wow you just made a great point about the benefits of public education... And why folks want their kids to go to private parochial schools... I imagine with our new charter systems from our new sec of Ed we will have schools that can reinforce the hate and prejudices that parents want ...
But of course here we are just talking concepts, the legalities are another thing altogether
But of course here we are just talking concepts, the legalities are another thing altogether
A Cup Of Tea
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What sort of freedom are we talking about? Divine given freedom? Moral freedom? Certainly not law given freedom, it is restrained in all societies.
The Pew Research Center has some stats on the topic
People live in a state, the state dictates the rules. That's the way it is. People try and get round it — the family cited above used California Law to open a private school in the family home, the only students being their own children. Protected by state law, the state had no oversight of the fitness of the teacher or what was being taught.
There was a funny story from Australia here
Quite. It's difficult to police what goes on inside the family home. All the more poignant today with this discovery
The state has the right, and the state supersedes the individual.
People live in a state, the state dictates the rules. That's the way it is. People try and get round it — the family cited above used California Law to open a private school in the family home, the only students being their own children. Protected by state law, the state had no oversight of the fitness of the teacher or what was being taught.
Very difficult for a school to say your parents are bringing you up the wrong way. Then again, the school might be the source of the problem.
There was a funny story from Australia here
Parents are not free, any more than the individual is free, within the state. It all depends on what freedoms the state allows (and how bonkers the state is).