Ulitmate Question!

I said:
As for prophets, prophesy, and starting own religions - it's always seemed a spiritual truth that we are all equal. Any attempt to set ourselves above that seems ultimately a self-serving act of egotism, no matter the justification.
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I agree.
 
Postmaster said:
All this talk about being non-denominational, does it make me a bad Christian if I'm an interdenominational? I just believe there is a universal truth in religion. However, it does seem to break the boundaries of my teachings there for, does that make me a full practicing Christian? Or does it make me more spiritual that I can accept other religions but less religious myself. The reason I find myself being interdenominational is because I can't bare the fact that millions of people on this earth are practicing a false religion. So I took myself out being supiror that comes with being "human" and seen a universal truth to the spiritual people that created the teachings. Even if it comes at a price of contradiction and hypocrisy. The reason I’m a practicing Christian Greek Orthodox, is because it was something I was born into and it is something I inherited. I would break more hearts converting then I would not and also that I'm happy with the religion because it allows my spiritual growth, which is fair to say many religions in the world would all allow spiritual positive growth.




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No it doesnt make you a bad Christian :) I was raised a Lutheran then was a baptist till I decided to become non-denominational. My reasoning for this was because I felt that some man made doctrine was contrary to the doctrine of God. I followed a path that I believe God set for me and this is where it led me. Christ spoke against the doctrine of the pharisees and sadducees and we were to beware of false doctrine.

Romans 6:17 Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them.

2Timothy 3:16-17 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Faithful Servant
 
Postmaster said:
You have the potential to expand your spirituality through religion or your own thoughts, however for the time being your lost and I think your enjoying the fact that you feel something is there but not acting on it.
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I think Brian started this site & alot of people are here looking for answer to questions they might have or to find people that believe in similar things to share or compare views. In short to learn, learn more about the path they have chosen or about the path they are already on & as for me if I did not work 2 jobs to pay the bills I would have more time to study & practice or maybe start my own religion :cool: but right now I was raise a Catholic but I am not a practicing Catholic & my beliefs are Animism in nature. If I had to pick a religion I would pick Shinto, from the Chinese "Shen Tao" or The way of the Spirit"

As for prophets, most had done similar things
1) was alone in the wilderness
2) prayed/meditated
3) fasted
anything else?

Mathghamhain
 
I'm not well educated on world religions but I know a fair bit about them but would getting in touch with a being out of the material world be a fundamental for all religion founders too?
 
Postmaster said:
I'm not well educated on world religions but I know a fair bit about them but would getting in touch with a being out of the material world be a fundamental for all religion founders too?
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I find it a surprisingly common human experience. In fact, general "far out there" spiritual phenomenon in general. Simply that some people like to draw more attention to themselves about it, while others simply move on and simply be. A lot of people on this site are in the latter.
 
It’s a shame that people don't talk about them if you ask me. The reason being is, we now live in a world where everything has to be explained, it’s now become the very laws of our societies, the material world. Talking about our experiences makes them more real and when they are more real then you open path ways for people. I personally would only tell of my experiences on a forum like this because feel that people here probably have also experienced similar and would accpet the claims. You may see that I opened up a thread about my experience and to be honest it wasn't to draw attention to me, but it was an attack on science and also for realization that there is more out there, and I hope to open awareness and thoughts to a better path.

 
Namaste all,


i find it difficult enough to explain my experience of eating an orange, let alone trying to describe spiritual experiences and so forth :)
 
We have the divine gift of speech and communication. An experience
will always be an experience, everything else is down to the person hearing.
 
believing in religion is an escape from your own mind





i am happy with my buddy, the one you fear deadly...​
 
I said:
As for prophets, prophesy, and starting own religions - it's always seemed a spiritual truth that we are all equal. Any attempt to set ourselves above that seems ultimately a self-serving act of egotism, no matter the justification.
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Brian we are all equal, even God is our equal. In my view God is pure positive energy, and we all know that superiority is negative. Prophets have a positively about them that is god like but it doesn't mean they are not equal just because they want to help people and show a positive path. A prophet would be the opposite of someone in a hierarchy. A prophet has to be willing to die for his cause of helping people and that’s exactly what world religion leaders have done. I must also point out to you that know human on this earth is perfect and even prophets are human ;)
 
I have to agree with Brian, Postmaster, and do not see how what you have stated in your last post has any bearing on it?

Prophets surely set themselves up as 'superior', because they claim to 'know' something, just through personal feelings, others don't know. They then consider it their duty to prohesy what they somehow 'know', when no one else does.
Following that, some will listen to the prohet and agree, others will listen and disagree... that is equality in action. The prophets depend for their success on what they say being proved in the external domain... How come they in Biblical terms seem to often get it wrong? Indeed, we are still waiting to see if some of them are right or wrong... after at least two thousand and more years.

By setting themselves up as seers of truths the rest of us do not appreciate and know, they put themselves 'above' the rest of us, claiming some special relationship with Nature or a God that is not based in any thing other than their own feelings.
In other words, they may be right or they might just as easily be wrong.

Why do prohets never seem to refer directly to empirical evidence beyond their own assertions?

======

I have never understood those who would deliberately set out to start a 'new' religion... When this has happened historically, as with St Paul, we just seem to recieve a 'message' that is basically their own, rather than, in this instance of St Paul, proper direct reference to the few actual purported words of Jesus of Nazareth?
Why is Pauline Christianity so much of St.Paul/Saul, rather than Jesus of Nazareth? Were not the words of Jesus enough that they needed explanations and interpretations by Paul?
In other words, we are simply in the position of accepting or denying the subjective assertions of the founder of the 'new' religion.
 
From Louis .....
Hi - I'm an outsider - another label that seems to fit me
is "reductionist".
No form of "religious" belief has ever made sense to me -
I don't understand why some people are attracted to the
idea of a "Deity" or why others are repelled and call themselves "Atheists" - I doesn't matter to me either way.
Since most members of this forum describe themselves
as "believers", I have asked them to explain what that
means but never got a reply that made any sense to me.
After awhile I gave up and now I just check in occasionaly.
 
You’re a "reductionist"? I know all about it. The problem with that is, if I went and killed someone, it would bare no scars on any moral level. It would be simply my DNA driving me to commit such a crime and part of nature and all humans are ran on the chemical processes in the brain. Surely there has to be more then that. Also reductionism sees life in a robot sense, where is the free will? Who knows, I respect that and I'm not saying it might not be true.

"Believers" are a person that believes in something that is immeasurable. It’s putting your faith into something, something we all do everyday in our lives like when we sit on a chair we put faith that it wont brake on us. Personally I put my faith that there is a God (Pure Positive being).




 
Blue said:
I have to agree with Brian, Postmaster, and do not see how what you have stated in your last post has any bearing on it?

Prophets surely set themselves up as 'superior', because they claim to 'know' something, just through personal feelings, others don't know. They then consider it their duty to prohesy what they somehow 'know', when no one else does.
Following that, some will listen to the prohet and agree, others will listen and disagree... that is equality in action. The prophets depend for their success on what they say being proved in the external domain... How come they in Biblical terms seem to often get it wrong? Indeed, we are still waiting to see if some of them are right or wrong... after at least two thousand and more years.
It is the people that seem to think that Prophets are superior, people that do not understand there nature. Just because a person might have a touch of divinity doesn't mean he is superior, as a matter of fact here on earth, he would be lower, lowest of low to the people. The very people who believe they are superior would treat them like this, the people that are blind. Was Jesus superior because he was the son of god? Did he not love, care, feed and die to get his word out and he was spat on for his belief. His family knew he was a prophet and in fact many people accepted it, the man created miracles on earth which went down in history with eye witness accounts, there’s no doubt they happened. But the thing people couldn't accept was that he was saying he was more, the son of God. But doesn't mean he was superior, he was superior in the minds of the people that put him on the cross and thats why they put him there, they feared him.
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Postmaster said:
...(the most fundamental practice of faith) ....
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Once you are in the afterlife, it will no longer be in issue of faith; or of practice, for that matter. :D

In response to the main thread: I kick around the the terms "antitheist," and/or "antideist."
In practice, my beliefs are:
1.) that anyone who has 'faith' has created an internal mental projection of an ultimate deity,
and
2.) that any god which may exist has nothing to do with that.
Further, it is clear to me that those who follow religious reasoning are liable to overstep established morality in trade for better treatment in the afterlife.:mad:

That having been said, I regularly attend ELCA Lutheran services, and am active in numerous activities therewith. Hence this site may serve as an outlet for my frustration with such people.:p
 
Postmaster says:
"The problem with that is, if I went and killed someone, it would bare no scars on any moral level. It would be simply my DNA driving me to commit such a crime and part of nature and all humans are ran on the chemical processes in the brain. Surely there has to be more then that. Also reductionism sees life in a robot sense, where is the free will?"
========
The problem here is that the motivation for what you maintain is somewhat like 'fear': A fear that all might be meaningless, beyond the meanings we award matters as self-regarding creatures.

Believe it or not, the situation describe above is so.. but you seem to forget the human capacity for self-regard and RATIONALITY. You say there is more than that... and indeed, I agree there is... there is our self-regarding faculty and there is our capacity for rationality.

In other words, we apparently have free will to makle rational decisions and affective decisions. We have the capacity to reject all supernatural, self validated emotive 'reasons, or similar, and put our focus towards thinking and acting in accord with reason and our rationally and logically employed use of self-regard as creatures that inhabit a material domain we can investigate and validate objectively.
That is hardly behaving robotically, I think.
 
Drew,
I have to agree with you:

"In practice, my beliefs are:
1.) that anyone who has 'faith' has created an internal mental projection of an ultimate deity,
and
2.) that any god which may exist has nothing to do with that.
Further, it is clear to me that those who follow religious reasoning are liable to overstep established morality in trade for better treatment in the afterlife."

I have yet to see any arguments against this that are based in a rational, logical and objective approach, rather than affective responses dependent upon personal validation, which are so commonly cited.
 
16: For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17: For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.


26: For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27: For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28: There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29: And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

28: For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

14: For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15: For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16: The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

17: Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18: And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;


So what am I A Christian A Jew a Muslim A Naturalist ? Just about the time I Stop learning about God He reveals more of Himself and challenges everything I have learned if I limit my Religion "put it in a box with a label on it" I run the risk of being stagnit and churchy I search for truth believe God gave each man the ability to find it of their own accord. Christianity to me is like a Thanks Giving Turkey with the little popper showing its done. eat to much it makes you sleepy. no offence I hope any Christian would disagree and show me where that view is wrong. The Jewish Faith has a heritage roots the leave me felling well grounded though I see to much change hard to see who is Jew by Blood or Jew by Faith. My Muslims coucins I think of them are distant and I long to learn more about them and where they come from.

I do Know I am saved by the blood of Jesus Nothing I learn will change that Salvation, My goal is to Study so as to Draw myself and others Closer to the truth .
Peace to all brethren which ever of you want to claim me :)
 
I've been a registered member of this forum for quite some time now, and I never felt a need to write something myself. What brought me to posting in this particular thread is the fact that everyone was so ready to answer the title question, and the fact that everyone was (more or less) sure about their spirituality or the absent of it.

What intrigues me is: is it really that important in ones life to be able to describe oneself as "presbetarian", or "jewish", or "an atheist", or something else ? And if that is important, why is it important ?

I find myself to be a spiritual person, and the sence of belonging to a greater power is growing within me more and more with years, but I never felt that I should live my spirituality by practicing this or that religious practice, or by following any kind of philosophical or esoteric teaching. "Catholicism", "gnosticism", "budhism"… those are just words, whose meanings were shaped by men, as well as the philosophies behind them.

So. What percentage of jewish teachings, practices etc. one must agree with to be considered of jewish faith, by his/her's, or the view of people around them ? Would I do better in life (this one or the next) if I start

Spirituality is the most private of all notions of a human being. So why is belonging to an istitution (even if that institution is "atheism") so important when it comes to live it ?
 
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