The Triumph of Christianity: How a Forbidden Religion Swept the World

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Bart D. Ehrman has written a book on the origins of Christianity: "The Triumph of Christianity: How a Forbidden Religion Swept the World" (Simon & Schuster)

Ehrman is a bit of a bogeyman in conservative Christian circles, so I was intrigued to read this review of his latest book by an atheist historian. What follows is an edited account outlining the expansion of early Christianity and Constantine's role, if he indeed had one, in the process.

There is a common web-meme that Christianity was invented in the fourth century by the Emperor Constantine. That the decrees of Constantine, especially that of making Christianity the state religion, had a massive impact goes without question, but quite how much is a matter of some dispute.

The Orthodox traditions have always held him in high regard, he and his mother Helena are saints in most of the eastern churches. The western Catholic tradition, suspicius of Byzantine "Caesaropapism", venerates the sainted Helena but has a slightly less enthusiastic view of Constantine.

Francis of Assisi traces corruption in the Church back to his conversion, and Bernard of Clairvaux expressed grave reservations about the impact of the (alleged) “Donation of Constantine” that was thought to have transferred authority over the western Europe to the Popes. More radical medieval critics like Wycliffe and Jan Hus saw the conversion of Constantine as the point where "true Christianity" was subverted and suppressed by a pagan corruption of the true faith.

In 'God is Not Great', Christopher Hitchens writes with typical breezy assurance of how "(Christianity) was eventually adopted for political reasons by the Emperor Constantine, and made into an official faith" (p64). This and other such assertions have been dismissed by scholars.

Constantine ended persecution of Christians, he showered Christian clergy with benefices and donations, he commissioned and financed the building of a network of churches, several of them monumentally large buildings, he restored confiscated Christian property, he commissioned twenty expensive copies of the Bible, he personally intervened in the Donatist and Arian controversies and he built a new city as his capital in which he did not allow pagan worship but which he filled with new churches and Christian monuments. His 26 chapter Oration to the Saints makes it absolutely clear that he was a fully fledged believer, given it is basically a defence of Christianity over paganism. And pagans were also quite clear that he was a Christian as well. The idea that his conversion was not sincere is simply not sustainable.

The Sol Invictus issue is also, according to Ehrman, a sign of a deepening understanding of his faith. No doubt embracing the preaching of St Paul on the areopagus, Constantine came to understand that the ancient symbol of the Sun also pointed to a higher reality, that of Christ the Logos.

The question of how many Christians there were in the Empire on the eve of fourth century is one that has been tackled from various angles over the last century or so. Early attempts were by analysis of literary sources. A letter from Cornelius for example, a bishop of Rome in the 3rd century, details the community there as 46 presbyters, 7 deacons, 4 sub-deacons, 42 acolytes, 52 exorcists, readers and doorkeepers, and furthermore that the community supported some 1,500 widows, orphans and other needy people.

Adolf von Harnack (1850-1930) concluded that the Christian population of Rome under Cornelius was around 30,000 in a city with a population of one million. Using similar references from other cities he arrived at an overall percentage of Christians in the Empire was 7-10%. Assuming a population of the Empire of around 60 million in this period, this gives us approximately 4-6 million Christians.

Roger Bagnall has used another approach, onomastics – the study of personal names. Given that some names (eg. Theophilus, Peter, Paul) are uniquely Christian, tracing their usage and spread can help map the spread and growth of the new faith. Sociologist Rodney Stark has used the growth of modern religious movements as a model to estimate how quickly a sect like Christianity could grow over four centuries. As families tended to convert, by organic growth alone, Christianity could go from just 20 adherents to 3-4 million by 312D and then a whole 25-35 million (half or more of the population of the Empire) by 400AD.

Even if Constantine had not converted, Christianity would still have gone from a relatively low percentage of the population in 312AD to over half of the Empire by 400, by the same organic growth it had seen in the previous three centuries.

Like Judaism, Christianity was an exclusive religion, where paganism was not. A pagan usually worshipped any number of gods and might do so at different times for different reasons. Family deities, local divine spirits, sacrifices to Neptune, say, before a sea voyage or to Mars before marching to war.

“Suppose two persons were each promoting a new cult, one the worship of Asclepius and the other the worship of Jesus. A crowd of a hundred pagan polytheists gathers to hear each devotee extol the glories of his god. In the end, the two prove to be equally successful: fifty of the crowd decide now to worship Asclepius and fifty others decide to worship the Christian god. What happens to the overall relationship of paganism and Christianity? If our two hypothetical speakers are equally persuasive, paganism has lost fifty worshippers and gained none, whereas Christianity has gained fifty and lost none.” (p126)

It is this accidental but ultimately highly effective combination of exclusivity and outreach that proved the key combination for Christianity and which drove the demographic exponential curve that saw it conquer the Roman Empire.

Was, then, Constantine motivated by politics and saw the Christians as a substantial power base?

It seems very clearly not. All the evidence indicates that, at least prior to Constantine and his successors, Christianity was substantially a lower class cult. While it had a few aristocratic and learned adherents – and they were prominent because their writings are our main sources of information – the majority of Christians were slaves, 'foreign' non-citizens and the urban plebeians. That Christians were so low class was a perennial comment by pagan observers as well as a source of satire and a basis for at least some anti-Christian polemic (such as Celcius). The popular support from the lower classes played very little or no role in bolstering the claim of a Roman emperor. In Constantine’s time, an emperor stayed on the throne via the support of the army, the senators and the equestrian class. Not the hoi-poloi.

Constantine emerged as the sole ruler largely because he had the support of the Roman army’s officer class, at least enough to give him an edge over his competitors. That support came from the western legions’ devotion to his father and then from his own proven skill as a general. The other key to keeping the throne in this period was the support of the equestrian class. These were the educated administrative elite who kept the Empire running.

The key point here is that both the military officer class and the equestrians were mostly pagans. There were some Christians in both echelons, but far fewer than in the lower strata.

The idea that Constantine adopted Christianity for political reasons, something I have believed a possibility — is not the case.

The next question is whether, once Constantine converted, his conversion tipped the scales in Christianity’s demographic favour?

Why had it appealed to millions of Romans in the centuries before his conversion?

Edward J. Watts’ "The Final Pagan Generation" shows a society that was an weave of family, sponsors, patronage and favours and so religion, like everything else, was a highly communal and shared business, rather than a matter of private and personal conscience. Within this framework, Christianity did not need large scale, organised evangelism – the faith spread organically, family by family, from sponsor to subordinate and from patron to client.

As mentioned above, part of its attraction is that the Christian community provided a highly supportive safety network that was uniquely charitable, caring and supportive. Support for widows and orphans, care of the sick and homeless, the provision of funerals for the poor and the care of graves were all noted as benefits of belonging to the Christian community. Erhman however does not see this a major factor in winning adherents.

In a generally very positive review in The Spectator, history writer Tom Holland wonders whether Erhman’s emphasis on his status as a non-Christian scholar necessarily makes him neutral and draws attention to a similar book to Ehrmans’ by the Christian scholar Larry Hurtado: "Destroyer of the Gods: Early Christian Distinctiveness in the Roman World". Both scholars note that Christianity placed an emphasis on ethics that was not found in the pagan cults. Holland observes:
“It is left to Hurtado, though, to tease out what the implications of this might be for anyone looking to explain the appeal of Christianity to potential converts. That the poor should be as worthy of respect as the rich; that the starving should have a claim on those with the reserves to feed them; that the vulnerable — children, prostitutes, slaves — should not be used by the powerful as mere sexual objects: all of these novel Christian doctrines must surely have had some influence on ‘the triumph of Christianity’ among the teeming masses of Roman cities.”

Tertullian depicts pagans as saying "these Christians, see how they love one another", this may be hypothetical, but the hypothesis needs some credibility to have any rhetorical effect.

Finally, Ehrman looks at the tendency toward imposing restrictions on pagan practice. He notes the various laws constricting public sacrifice, worship by pagans and the orders for the closure of temples. "These laws were directed to specific locales, not empire-wide, and there existed no state apparatus to ensure they were carried out. As a result, they had but little effect: paganism continued, unchecked, in most places. But the laws do show the will of the emperor, and this would not have gone unnoticed. Conversions away from paganism continued apace." (pp. 246-7)

Ehrman notes the increasing intolerance and tendency toward coercion that developed in Christianity as the later fourth century progressed, but he also notes that this was far from the universal attitude, quoting Gregory of Nazianus: “I do not consider it good practice to coerce people instead of persuading them”. (p256)

The destruction of the great temple of Serapis in 391AD offers the whole story, including the gang of pagan zealots who had holed up in the temple and were torturing and killing Christian captives, a pertinent detail that critics often forget to mention. Likewise the death of Hypatia, caught up in the political struggle between Cyril and Orestes (both Christians), was a political murder, paganism, philosophy and Christianity having very little to do with what was a tit-for-tat assassination.

The conclusion of most objective historians: Christianity did not win out because of violent coercion. Michele Renee Salzman observed: "it is hard to accept the interpretation advanced by certain scholars that physical violence, coercion, was a central factor in explaining the spread of Christianity" (p274).

While many works of literature were lost due to a declining interest in them by Christian scholars, many were also preserved by those same scholars, and "such pagan works may have been lost anyway, without the Christianization of the empire" (p285). Loss is actually the norm for most pre-modern texts. Any student of early Christian history can only wonder and lament the loss of most of Origen's works, or the volumes of early Christian history of Papius ... on balance, the loss shows a general trend across all literature, rather than any attempt to wipe of a pagan heritage.

By all accounts, Ehrman seems to have done a good job ...
 
Whatever the reasons for conversion, thinking the emperors edict qallowing the ruling class Christians to come out of the closet and openly express their beliefs... Had little influence over the expansion...I think is disproved by the increase in open racism based on our current emperors edicts.
 
Comparison with today offers some interesting counterpoints. It's certainly true that higher-ranking Christians could 'come out of the closet'. Constantine's funding of the Council at Nicea would have certainly elevated their status.

On Hurtado's blog, there's an entry on Alexander Weiss, "Social Elites and Christianity: Studies on Members from Elite classes among Early Christians".

As you probably know, up until recently the general view was that Christianity was a religion of slaves and those in the lower social orders. A new consensus is emerging under more nuanced investigatory methods, which suggests that the early Christian community did cross social boundaries.

Which makes me wonder why the old idea was as it was.

The first, I think, is founded in Scripture. Jesus preached to the poor, the companion of wine-bibbers, tax collectors and harlots, etc. His mission was to the lower social classes, He was originally based in Capaernum, but travelled the countryside. If we believe the Synoptics, He visited Jerusalem just once (if John, three times), the overall impression is that of a hero of the poor and the oppressed.

That is how the early church saw itself. The emancipation of the lower orders, women and the slaves classes was certainly evidenced, but there is also evidence of higher class members —

Joseph of Arimathea, was a wealthy merchant and, according to Mark "a respected member of the council" (15:43) and Luke says that he was present at what must have been a high-level discussion when he "had not consented to their decision and action" (23:50–56) in the arrest of Jesus.
Luke, a doctor and an educated man, addresses his gospel to the "most excellent Theophilus" (1:3).

In John, Joseph "asked Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus, and Pilate gave him permission." (19:38). I doubt that Pilate would have granted an audience to anyone who might have rocked up at his door.

Then we have Nicodemus, a prominent member of the Sanhedrin, spoken of in John. In John 3 he is "a ruler of the Jews. This man came to Jesus by night..." (v1-2).

And John himself seems to have access to the Council. There is a line of thought that Peter and John were not 'poor fishermen' but had inherited a thriving business.

Weiss points to references in Acts, Sergius Paulus (Acts 13), Dionysious the Areopagite (Acts 17), in Thessalonica "... and of those that served God, and of the Gentiles a great multitude, and of noble women not a few." (Acts 17:4).

In Romans there is "Erastus, the treasurer of the city" (16:23), whom Weiss suggests was a member of the local decurian class.

So we have the ecclesia in the Apostolic era having drawn believers from the lowest to the highest levels of Jewish strata (indeed, the Sanhedrin itself). Even Pilate's wife gets a mention: "When he (Pilate) was set down on the judgment seat, his wife sent unto him, saying, Have thou nothing to do with that just man: for I have suffered many things this day in a dream because of him." (Matthew 27:19). An apocryphal tradition suggests she was drawn to and a friend of the Jews, rather than a Christian convert (quite how she could have been converted at this stage does set up considerable problems).

As Weiss points out, those belonging to the elite and ruling classes would have faced particular problems in confessing their belief. A Jew could hardly maintain his position in the Sanhedrin if he was a believer, and gentile converts would be faced with their public responsibilities that involved taking part in cultic events dedicated to the traditional gods.

As Weiss argues, it's quite likely these people kept their beliefs secret.

But there is yet another factor: The ridicule such a belief drew from its critics. How could people, anxious to maintain their social status, carry on when it was general knowledge that they belonged to a rather bizarre cult given to certain unsavoury practices? A cult regarded with deep suspicion and hostility by many if not most of their peers? Comments by the likes of Pliny, Tacitus, Suetonius and Celsus would suggest that becoming a Christian would be the equivalent of joining some wacky cult today.

Constantine changed all that.

So yes, things changed, but the arc of expansion seems to indicate its somewhat inevitability. This was a two-edged sword.

Constantine's decision led to an increase in freedoms, but also allowed the old ruling patriarchy to begin to re-assert itself. Over the following centuries, women were written out of the picture, and, a tragedy in my view, especially the negative emphasis on Eve and on women as the cause of all men's ills, which led to the institutionalising of an often misonynistic all-male priesthood.

It's a lasting legacy, reinforced most recently by Pope Francis who has ruled out any discussion of female ordination.

Personally, it staggers me that the Resurrection was revealed to a woman – Mary Magdalene – before Jesus appeared to the disciples, and indeed He charged her with informing them of it. In the tradition she is 'the apostle to the apostles', but her status and her significance, and the part played my women in the early ministries, is written out rather than reflected in the resulting hierarchy.
 
As usual, I am always amazed at your research and sharing... Thanx.

As to Mary Magdalene, there are still many Christians that out her as the harlot at the well.
 
Don't act so surprised, I know you are opposed to many of his notions, in this you agree with Bishop Spong (lol). But Bart ain't no slouch...
Yeah well, when someone's wrong, someone's wrong, and not even scholars are immune from error, especially subjective ones. Nor of peddling an agenda when the opportunity allows.

In Misquoting Jesus, Ehrman's thesis is that the original New Testament materials have been lost. He argues that the number of mistakes and insertions in the many copies produced thereafter cast doubt on the reliability of Scripture.

What counts against this premise is that we have so many copies of New Testament documents, both whole and fragmentary, from so many sources, that by text analysis we can recover an idea of the original text.

Here is where his thesis collapses. We can note the changes by comparison. But, by the same token, examining a plethora of texts, from different source traditions, we can see the mistakes and in so doing, filter them out.

Ehrman sums up his thesis on p208:
"It would be wrong ... to say — as people sometimes do — that the changes in our text have no real bearing on what the texts mean or on the theological conclusions that one draws from them. We have seen, in fact, that just the opposite is the case."

Not on the strength of this argument, mate, far from it. Rather, extensive text analysis and research has shown that the changes/errors/etc in the texts have no bearing on what the texts mean or on the theological conclusions that one draws from them.
 
In times past I have contended, at length, with Juantoo3, over where 'Christianity has gone wrong'.

In that, as far as I recall, it was largely over how much Constantine changed or altered the path of doctrinal development.

That aside, if one looks at the web, the common consensus of critics is that Constantine dictated the outcome of Nicea (although material events seem to show otherwise — Arianism did not go away); that he wrote the Bible (an extreme view); that he decided what books were regarded as canonical (not quite so extreme, but equally wrong); that he wrote the Creed (perhaps a pardonable error. he asked for one clause to be clarified. As it turned out, even with the clarification it became a subject of theological contentions, so he failed there); that he 'invented' the doctrine of the Holy Trinity (a clear anachronism). Lastly, that the emperors dictated the development of doctrine. This too is easily dismissed.

My own contention is somewhat more nuanced.

The Church found itself suddenly the religion of state, and as it continued to grow, the numbers before Constantine (around 5 million adherents) multiplied to 25-35 million by the turn of the fourth century.

To cope with this exponential expansion, the Church adopted the only viable administrative model available, or if not the only, then at least the most successful, by a long shot — the Roman one. Sadly, it seems to me, we also adopted the material, outward forms of the empire; Christendom was 'the Holy Roman Empire' but it incorporated the less holy trappings of wealth and extravagance.

I might be wrong, but it seems to me the Jews before and the Moslems after never quite matched the pomp and circumstance of Christianity.

I don't know if there's a 'turning point' as such, probably not. Rather it was that the gradual incorporation of a patrician outlook among the higher echelons of the curia, that inevitably distanced them from their 'flocks' who became less and less involved in the decision-making process.

+++

Priests wear black because the pattern was established in the days of Justin Martyr (2nd century), and Justin wore black because that was the habit of philosophers. Bishops are distinguished by the colour purple, the colour of the Roman ruling elite. Purple is universally linked with wealth (even in China), because it was fantastically time-consuming and expensive to produce. Traditional holds that Christ was covered with a purple cloak at the crucifixion, but this was because it was part of the mockery of his Roman captors, when they presented Him as 'the king of the Jews'.

+++

Justin is interesting. Born around 100AD, some have speculated that he was a child of the Roman 'diplomatic' community in Samaria, where he was born.

His early education left him unsatisfied because of its failure to quench his thirst for a theological and metaphysical 'system'. He tried Stoicism, first the school of a Stoicphilosopher, who was unable to explain God's being to him. He then studied under an Aristotelian, but was put off because the philosopher was too eager for his fee(!) Then a Pythagorean, who demanded he learn music, astronomy, and geometry, which he did not wish to do. Then to Platonism:
"And the perception of immaterial things quite overpowered me, and the contemplation of ideas furnished my mind with wings, so that in a little while I supposed that I had become wise; and such was my stupidity, I expected forthwith to look upon God, for this is the end of Plato's philosophy."

Some time afterwards, he chanced upon an old man, possibly a Syrian Christian who engaged him in a dialogue about God and spoke of the testimony of the prophets as being more reliable than the reasoning of philosophers.

Justin renounced both his former religious faith and his philosophical background, choosing instead to re-dedicate his life to the service of the Divine. His newfound convictions were bolstered by the ascetic lives of the early Christians and the heroic example of the martyrs, in which he saw the moral and spiritual superiority of Christian doctrine. As a result, he travelled far and wide, preaching Christianity as the "true philosophy."

He went to Rome and started his own school. Tatian was a pupil. In the reign of Marcus Aurelius he disputed with the cynic philosopher Crescens, who denounced him to the authorities. Justin was tried, along with six companions, by the urban prefect, and beheaded.
 
Gospel of Thomas? In or out?
In or out of what?

The canon? Out, definitely. The version we have now is too late, too Hellene.

Ehrman argues the Gospel was probably composed by a Gnostic some time in the early 2nd century, although it's not a standard Gnostic text, it doesn't follow the common Gnostic cosmogony. N.T. Wright also sees Thomas as the product of a non-Christian of the 2nd/3rd century.

My best guess is a Hellenist/proto-gnostic non-Christian reworked Christian materials from a very early oral 'sayings' tradition. There may well have been an original Thomas — there's parallels with the Synoptics (some suggest as indicator of a Q source, although I'm not sold on Q as a single source).

From the Coptic version in the Nag Hammadi find, scholars have identified three Greek text fragments of the Oxyrhynchus find as belonging to the Gospel. These three papyrus fragments date to between 130 and 250AD.

The wording of the Nag Hammadi Coptic differs markedly in places from the earlier Greek Oxyrhynchus texts, an extreme case being the conflation of logion 30 and 77 of the Greek:
30. Jesus said, "Where there are three deities, they are divine. Where there are two or one, I am with that one."
Jesus said, "I am the light that is over all things. I am all: from me all came forth, and to me all attained.
Split a piece of wood; I am there. Lift up the stone, and you will find me there."

The Coptic:
Jesus said, "Where there are three they are without God. And where there is only one, I say, I am with him. Lift the stone and there you will find me. Split the wood and I am there."

Again, an 'explicit' (his word) quote by Hippolytus in his refutation of heresies (in a document circa 222-235):
The one who seeks me will find me in children of seven years and older, for there, hidden in the fourteenth aeon, I am revealed.

Is quite markedly different to Coptic logion 4:
Jesus said, "The person old in days won't hesitate to ask a little child seven days old about the place of life, and that person will live.
For many of the first will be last, and will become a single one."

Which suggests versions of the Gospel may have circulated in more than one form and/or had passed through several stages of redaction. It's generally thought the Gospel was first composed in Greek, the Coptic Nag Hammadi text is a translation from the Syriac, Syria having strong Thomasine connections.

So the evidence suggests to me that a sayings document, which might well be orthodox, was utilised by non-Christian sources to provide a counter teaching along lines that became explicit in Gnostic texts — the refutation of the Trinity and the editing out of the "I am the light" in logion 30 an example.

And staying with logion 30, "I am the light that is over all things. I am all: from me all came forth, and to me all attained" declares much the same as the Logos declaration in John 1:1-5, and the ancient hymn identified as pre-Pauline and incorporated into Colossians 1:15-17:
"Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For in him were all things created in heaven and on earth ... all things were created by him and in him. And he is before all, and by him all things consist."

So much to work with, but the texts we hold are non-Christian in origin, containing additions and reworkings of Christian source materials.
 
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Some food for thought:

"St. Florian was born around 250 AD in the ancient Roman city of Aelium Cetium, present-day Sankt Pölten, Austria. He joined the Roman Army and advanced in the ranks,[3] rising to commander of the imperial army in the Roman province of Noricum. In addition to his military duties, he was also responsible for organizing and leading firefighting brigades. Florian organized and trained an elite group of soldiers whose sole duty was to fight fires.[4]

During the Diocletianic Persecution of Christians, reports reached Rome that St. Florian was not enforcing the proscriptions against Christians in his territory. Aquilinus was sent to investigate these reports. When Aquilinus ordered Florian to offer sacrifice to the Roman gods in accordance with Roman religion, Florian refused. Florian was sentenced to be burned at the stake. Standing on the funeral pyre, Florian is reputed to have challenged the Roman soldiers to light the fire, saying "If you do, I will climb to heaven on the flames." Apprehensive of his words, the soldiers did not burn Florian, but executed him by drowning him in the Enns River with a millstone tied around his neck.[3][4]"

ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Florian

I haven't time to go point by point, and still have half of the previous to read...but I have long said that Constantine acted *in part* as political favor to the Christian troops in his ranks...which always received a knee-jerk denial without consideration. First, Constantius (Constantine's father) was Emperor over Britain. Second, where is the oldest recognized Christian Church? Denial notwithstanding, I have shown here in the past that even the Catholic Church recognized the old wattle Church at Glastonbury, England, as the oldest Christian Church, and the Bishop of Glastonbury was accorded special rank and favor because of that when the Bishops convened. Third, Constantine's mother Helena is noted many times in the histories as being devout Christian, and clearly Constantius was tolerant of Christians, and only in the Western Empire under his control were Christians mostly left unmolested during the Persecution of Diocletian and Galerius. Everywhere else in the Empire, as exemplified by the brief on St. Florian above, Christians were persecuted, particularly those of rank or social status as they were easy targets for political opponents.

So much more to say, to establish context. Nearly everyone quoted above so far leaves out certain elements that contradict their pet theories, none of the presentations present anything like a comprehensive picture. Kudos that some are at least pointing in the right direction, but with reservations.

Thank you for the nod in my direction, but I've been saying this stuff for years. Yes, my view has changed and grown as I've become aware of further details, but the gist remains...Constantine granted favor to Christianity over and above the state paganism as a political "thank you" to his troops, MANY of whom were British Christians. Look back at the old discussions, I said this back then and reiterate it again now. Being based in Britain, where else would Constantius, and by extension Constantine, conscript troops for the military? Did the troops appear out of thin air? Constantine had already time to demonstrate his leadership to his Father's troops in a short campaign against the Picts prior to the death of Constantius, no doubt one of the reasons the troops were anxious to support Constantine so vigorously at that time. With so many Christians in the ranks, faced with the alternative of the Persecution being waged by Galerius (Diocletian had retired by then), they chose to support the Prince in a fight for their very lives!
 
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In the histories I've read, Christians were accorded greater and lesser favor over time in the interim period between Jesus and Constantine. There were periods when they were tolerated, and periods in which they were not tolerated. This is not unusual, there were other "outlier" groups that went through periods of social and political disapproval. But the statement above is mostly correct, in that overall Christianity prior to Constantine was largely viewed by non-Christians as a fringe sect worthy of mocking and ridicule. And primarily, though not exclusively, the draw of social welfare attracted those of the lesser social levels...but that is to be expected. I've read that perhaps as much as 80% of society was composed of slaves. One would expect that at least 80% of converts would be of the slave class if that number bears any merit. So faulting Christianity as being mostly comprised of the dregs of society is playing fast and loose with the numbers. Christians by and large could read...so in periods when Christians were tolerated, they tended to dominate the social services on behalf of the state - they were government workers, because they were more efficient at performing those functions. During periods of persecutions, Christians were driven out of government positions, and largely illiterate pagans installed to perform the same functions, and did so to a much lesser level of efficiency. Political tides toss and turn, that has always been the way of humans. If memory serves there were 3 or 4 persecutions of Christians prior to Diocletian, but in comparison they were small scale and localized. The Persecution of Diocletian (instigated at Galerius' request, fueled some say by Galerius' zealous Mother's adamant hatred of Christians) was much further reaching and pervasive, spanning 3 of the 4 political subdivisions of the Empire. (Aside, there were minor persecutions after Constantine as well, ultimately extinguished by his troops under his command.) Clearly there were elements to Christianity, apart from Judaism, that appealed to the poor masses, but also provided something to those of social stature that paganism simply couldn't provide. I think it is reasonable, at least among the poorer classes, to think that would be the social welfare aspect of taking care of the elderly, orphans, widows and ill that paganism simply didn't provide for on a scale necessary. I can't speak to what draw may have enticed the wealthier converts, perhaps the teaching of afterlife and what I call "karmic boomerang," of reaping what you sow.

Perhaps more later, I need to attend other duties right now.
 
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In times past I have contended, at length, with Juantoo3, over where 'Christianity has gone wrong'.

In my defense, it has never been from my side about "gone wrong." My lament is the complete and total ignorance of the History of the Church. The usual portrayal is that Church History ends at John on Patmos and magically transports to the present day, or maybe Grandmother's generation somewhere, or in rare instance to Martin Luther or Pope Gregory XIII and his calendar or Pope Paul V and the Inquisition of Galileo. And the Church, as a rule, is only too happy to indulge the ignorance.

If "Christianity has gone wrong," no amount of finger pointing will fix it. However, it is a great disservice to believers, and non-believers, to gloss over and ignore what actually transpired to bring what amounts to a radical Jewish rabbi teaching an offbeat and irreverent (by contemporary standards) Gospel being executed in one period as a threat to Roman and Sanhedrin society, being elevated in another period less than 300 years later to the status of Roman Empirical Deity, at which time all Jewish trappings of his existence are erased or deliberately dissociated. Church History is a shell game...one that continues to this day.

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We end up with a Jewish Rabbi who isn't Jewish, who teaches Jewish Law (albeit in a fundamentally abstract way from traditional teachings) to Jewish and non-Jewish followers, who manages to insult the Jewish *and* Roman religio-political authorities, who ends up being executed in Roman fashion-but not by Romans!, who ends up 300 years later being elevated to Roman Empirical Deity while any remaining Jewishness is vigorously erased apart from placing the blame for his execution on the Jewish authority because we can't have Rome responsible for the execution of a state Deity. The plausible denial is palpable.

In past discussions you have gone to great lengths to say none of the History was political. I disagree...when all of the fluff is cut away, it is clearly evident the hand politics played in the development of the fledgling Church. And before you take Carte Blanche and imply that I am saying Constantine wrote the Bible or some such, let me stop you right here...that is not what I *ever* said. Likewise you cannot deny the anti-Semitic undertones applied to the Nicean Council by Constantine, nor the legal codification of anti-Semitism by the Council...both of which were addressed at length in our last conversation.
 
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... but I have long said the Constantine acted *in part* as political favor to the Christian troops in his ranks...which always received a knee-jerk denial without consideration.
OK. But is there any actual evidence for that?

I'm not denying it, I'm wondering if there is any evidence at all about what was motivating Constantine.

I found this "Christians in the roman army countering the pacifist narrative'. Leaving the pacifist argument aside, the author brings out the evidence that points to Christianity having permeated the social structure in greater depth than previously thought (I've mentioned this above). If the Christian population at the time was around 5-10% of the whole, then we might be able to say Christians made similar figures in the armed forces?

The article also points to two 'house churches' that built by the Roman military. You mention Florian, but earlier we have the centurion asking Jesus to heal his servant, and then we have Peter baptising Cornelius, another centurion, and all his household.

An interesting aside is that, as far as the military is concerned, Mithraism and Christianity are contemporaries. I think – could be wrong – we have more archaeological evidence for the former, but Mithraism ham-strung itself by being a man-only, military cult. Christianity, embracing all, meant when Cornelius converted, so did his wife, his kids, his servants and his slaves, the whole household.

First, Constantius (Constantine's father) was Emperor over Britain.
Well he was 'emperor of the west' and spent some time campaigning in Britain.

Second, where is the oldest recognized Christian Church?
Hmmm, tricky.

As I read it, Christianity came to Britain with the Romans sometime in the late 1st century. Then it sort of disappears with the Romans, Britain then invaded by all sorts from Europe. It lingers in the west, and is re-introduced by missions from Ireland, but it's not until the arrival of Augustine in 597AD that serious missions get underway. Of course, we Brits had our first martyrs long before then, St Alban, St Julius and St Aaron, under the Diocletian persecution. And the Augustinian Roman line did away with the older Celtic line at the Synod of Whitby in 664AD.

I have shown here in the past that even the Catholic Church recognized the old wattle Church at Glastonbury, England, as the oldest Christian Church ...
Yes, but we now know that myth was generated in the 12th century, a fiction promoted by abbots to boost the profile of the abbey. We know a settlement goes back to Roman and Saxon times, but the idea of a Christian church has no archaeological evidence. There certainly wasn't any continuity between that and the abbey founded in the 7th century. The Saxons who came after the Romans weren't Christians, the place was conquered by the Christian King Ire in the 7th century.

Constantine's mother Helena is noted many times in the histories as being devout Christian, and clearly Constantius was tolerant of Christians ...
Here it gets interesting. When did Helena convert, or was she born into a Christian family? We don't know. As you say, Constantius was tolerant, which suggests she may have been Christin in that time.

... Constantine granted favor to Christianity over and above the state paganism as a political "thank you" to his troops, MANY of whom were British Christians.
Possibly. Or maybe it was promoted by his own Christianity, nurtured by his mother. History puts his conversion at 311AD, due to a vision before the battle of the Milvian Bridge (312AD).

According to Lactantius, on the night before the battle Constantine was commanded in a dream to 'delineate the heavenly sign on the shields of his soldiers', and he describes a 'staurogram', a cross with its upper end rounded in a P-like fashion. There is no certain evidence that Constantine ever used that sign, opposed to the better known Chi-Rho sign described by Eusebius.

Eusebius offers two accounts of the battle. The first, shorter one in the Ecclesiastical History states God helped Constantine, but does not mention any vision.

In his later Life of Constantine, Eusebius gives an account of a vision, supposedly from the Emperor himself. According to this version, Constantine was on the march with his army when he looked up to the sun and saw a cross of light above it, with it the Greek 'in this sign, you shall conquer'. The following night he had a dream in which Christ explained to him that he should use the sign against his enemies.

The accounts have been merged into the popular notion of Constantine seeing the Chi-Rho sign on the evening before the battle. Both authors agree the sign was not widely understandable to denote Christ (although used in the catacombs on Christian tombs).

The solar deity Sol Invictus was used by emperors on official coinage, with a wide range of legends, only a few of which incorporated the epithet invictus, used with particular frequency by Constantine. The official cults of Sol Invictus and Sol Invictus Mithras were popular amongst the soldiers of the Roman Army.

So ... maybe the already-Christian Constantine pulled a clever stroke of adopting a symbol that was significant to both Christians and Mithraists?

There's only reason for a political thank you is to head off rebellion, surely? A personal reason, yes. Same as his restitution of goods and property confiscated from Christians.

I'd like to correct my error in stating that Christianity became the state religion under Constantine. It didn't. It was state supported and d=favoured, for sure, but the declaration was later, with the Edict of Thessalonica in 380AD, under Emperor Theodosius I.

And the evidence says Christianity would become overwhelming with or without Constantine's assistance. It just made it public, a huge boon and benefit, but it was heading that way anyway.
 
Christians by and large could read...
Could they? They didn't institute schooling, as far as I know? That would depend on what class you belonged to.

... they tended to dominate the social services on behalf of the state - they were government workers, because they were more efficient at performing those functions.
Not sure about that. Non-Christians could also read and write. That sounds a bit like a Christian polemic, to me?

During periods of persecutions, Christians were driven out of government positions, and largely illiterate pagans installed to perform the same functions, and did so to a much lesser level of efficiency.
Really? Evidence? Promotion was largely by patronage. Why would non-Christian patrons promote illiterate and inefficient officers as a matter of course?

When the 300-odd bishops were at Nicea, the vast majority could hardly follow the nuances of the theological debate. Athanasius became the spokesman of what emerged as orthodoxy because he was obviously a theologian of considerable insight and skill, capable of disputing with Arius, no less skilled. The majority of the bishops were loathe to dogmatically define anything that wasn't explicitly stated in Scripture. They were the undecided middle ground.
 
My lament is the complete and total ignorance of the History of the Church.
Well more is coming to light, but yes, we really don't have the materials to make definite statements.

The usual portrayal is that Church History ends at John on Patmos and magically transports to the present day...
LOL, maybe in the popular mindset, but that's not really true. JND Kelly's 'Early Christian Creeds' and 'Early Christian Doctrines' are required reading. 'Creeds, Councils and Controversies' (Stephensen and Frend), there's tons of stuff on the Fathers ... but a social history? Really hard stuff to find.

However, it is a great disservice to believers, and non-believers, to gloss over and ignore what actually transpired to bring what amounts to a radical Jewish rabbi ...
Nah, can't really make that one stick. Too radical by any Jewish measure, too blasphemous ... and open to Gentiles, so much so that the earliest Church documents we have, Acts of the Apostles, clearly shows that 'The Way' as it was called, had moved well beyond Jewish boundaries. St Paul tussles with that at length, St Luke wrote for a Gentile audience ...

... being executed in one period as a threat to Roman and Sanhedrin society, being elevated in another period less than 300 years later to the status of Roman Empirical Deity ...
Nope, He was never a Roman Empirical Deity, He was the Christian God, completely distinct from the Roman pantheon.

Church History is a shell game ... one that continues to this day.
All history's a shell game, the history of politics is in its own day ... this is a somewhat disingenuous accusation.
 
Excellent article...which by the way, seems to offer the evidence you requested.

Leaving the pacifist argument aside, the author brings out the evidence that points to Christianity having permeated the social structure in greater depth than previously thought (I've mentioned this above). If the Christian population at the time was around 5-10% of the whole, then we might be able to say Christians made similar figures in the armed forces?
I think that is a reasonable assessment. I do take small issue with the armies being *totally* volunteer, as there are instances, even among the battles Constantine engaged in, where the opposing forces did use conscripts, notably the Battle with Ruricus following the route at Verona, in which Ruricus conscripted locals in a last ditch defense that served him no purpose. Likewise Maxentius at Rome, at first shored up the defenses in expectation of siege, but when receiving an omen that "the enemy of Rome shall be defeated" which he interpreted to mean Constantine, Maxentius ordered all able bodied men of fighting age to the Milvian Bridge to meet Constantine. The annals of the Battle tell that Constantine's seasoned veterans sliced through Maxentius' inexperienced troops rather well, that the only significant resistance Constantine's army met was from the Praetorian Guard that took a final stand at the river's edge, by which time the pontoon bridge had already capsized and Maxentius had drowned.

So I think any absolutist thinking on these matters leaves wide gaps in understanding. Were there pacifist Christians? No doubt. Were all Christians pacifists? Hardly. Which really is no different than today.

An interesting aside is that, as far as the military is concerned, Mithraism and Christianity are contemporaries. I think – could be wrong – we have more archaeological evidence for the former, but Mithraism ham-strung itself by being a man-only, military cult. Christianity, embracing all, meant when Cornelius converted, so did his wife, his kids, his servants and his slaves, the whole household.
OK, but there were even other "religions" represented as well, particularly as one got closer to the Greek parts of the Empire.

Well he was 'emperor of the west' and spent some time campaigning in Britain.
The Western Empire had two capitals: Trevorum, modern Trier in far western Germany, and Eboracum, modern day York, England. Constantius died and Constantine was elevated to "wear the purple" at York. After what you have pointed to here, and through the excellent article, why would one doubt that a notable portion of the army under Constantius and thereafter Constantine, would not be from Britain?

I don't have time at the moment for detail, this is of necessity brief, I would encourage following up: The "native" Britons during the Roman occupation were considered Celts, and largely still are. All lumped together. That is like trying to lump all of the Native American Indians into one. Each Celtic tribe had its own unique culture and history. Glastonbury is near Cornwall, as I understand, and there are ancient tin mines nearby. The Romans traded with the Celts of Cornwall for tin long before Roman encroachment on the British Isles, indeed the Cornish Celts dealt with the Phoenicians even earlier. There was direct communication, that is historical - familial - linguistic - cultural ties between this specific band of Celts and those in Brittany, and others still in the south of Ireland, a straight line by water route. It is important to note, that while Rome struggled against various Celtic tribes (Boudicea comes to mind), the specific tribe in question had always and still remained on friendly, cooperative terms with Roman authority. I want to say Dumnonii, but I would need to follow up to confirm, its been a while since last I looked into this. Joseph of Arimathea was a merchant, a tin trader, and it is he who established the Church at Glastonbury. The Chalice Well is still there, and there was an ancient "Crown of Thorns" bush nearly two thousand years old that died recently, located on the grounds near where the Church stood. The Abbey at Glastonbury was built in part to preserve the old Church, but all that was destroyed in the wrath of Henry the VIII. In other words, it was going strong at the time of Constantine. No doubt a significant portion of Constantine's army was comprised of volunteer soldiers from this part of Britain, and being Christian were faced with supporting a commander that was sympathetic to their religious cause, or suffer the wrath of the persecutions of Galerius, who was quite frankly hell bent on purging the ranks of the army of Christians!

Possibly more later.
 
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Hi junatoo3 —

On reflection, the core of my contention, I think, surrounds this:

However, it is a great disservice to believers, and non-believers, to gloss over and ignore what actually transpired to bring what amounts to a radical Jewish rabbi ... being elevated in another period less than 300 years later to the status of Roman Empirical Deity, at which time all Jewish trappings of his existence are erased or deliberately dissociated.

... who ends up 300 years later being elevated to Roman Empirical Deity ...

... Likewise you cannot deny the anti-Semitic undertones applied to the Nicean Council by Constantine, nor the legal codification of anti-Semitism by the Council...
Two things:

Taking the latter first, the anti-semitism is not contended. The first persecutors were Jews, who saw Jesus as a heretic and blasphemer. Nevertheless, Jews and Christians worshipped side-by-side in Jerusalem, until things came to a head, around 100AD, when Christians were forbidden to attend the synagogue. In Rome it began much earlier, with Jewish and Christian mobs fighting in the streets as early as 65AD, if not earlier.

Christianity and Judaism very quickly devolved into 'them-and-us' religions. There were tensions in Jesus' day, and these grew and hardened as time went on. It was nothing new by the time of Constantine, and Constantine's anti-semitism was hardly unique.

A couple of points:
The observance of Sunday as the Lord's day is mentioned in Ignatius' Letter to the Magnesians, and indeed he speaks of observing the Lord's day rather than the Jewish Sabbath (110AD). Again, in The Letter of Barnabas mentions Sunday in opposition to the Jewish Sabbath (130AD).

The Didache (c100AD) says:
"Chapter 14. Christian Assembly on the Lord's Day. But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one who is at odds with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord: "In every place and time offer to me a pure sacrifice; for I am a great King, says the Lord, and my name is wonderful among the nations."
There is no mention of the Jewish Sabbath in what is effectively the first Christian catechism.

The fixing of the Easter was the response to a question that had been festering for centuries.

The Passover is celebrated in accordance with the Jewish calendar, but the most part of the Christian empire followed the Julian calendar and this led to inexactitudes. The Jews celebrated the date, rather than the day, whereas the Christians celebrated the day, rather than the date (which was unknown).

So how do you fix that? Some celebrated on the first day of Passover according to the Jewish calendar, others on the first Sunday of the Passover, others the first Sunday after the first full moon following the Vernal Equinox – the equinox was the means by which the Jews set their celebration.

Constantine wanted to establish Easter as its own festival, utterly separate from any other faith or festival, Jewish, Roman, Greek, whatever. It should stand on its own. So the best practice was to follow the already-existing practice of the first Sunday after the first New Moon of Spring.

+++

Now the 'Roman Empirical Deity' —

Short answer, I don't think Christ was ever a Roman deity in anyone's mind. His deification was fundamentally an element unique to Christianity, not a Jewish deity (as far as the Jews were concerned) nor Roman, nor Greek. He was exclusively Christian, and He was worshipped as a deity from the get-go. Constantine never presented Christianity as a Roman cult, or a cult accommodated within the Roman pantheon.
 
Nope, He was never a Roman Empirical Deity, He was the Christian God, completely distinct from the Roman pantheon.

I simply can't let this one slide.

I didn't imply Jesus was "added to the pantheon." Where you are correct is that it took another fifty odd years before Jesus was finally, totally, completely to the exclusion of all others, elevated to be the one and only Roman Empirical Deity. What I implied was that the process started in earnest with Constantine. Constantine by right of victory and becoming Emperor (at that time only over half of the Empire, it would be another dozen or so years before completing the task of unifying the whole Empire), was by tradition to be elevated to the status of "god." All Emperors since Augustus before him did, and a couple after still did. Constantine was the first to abdicate this specific state responsibility, although he still maintained the secular authority vested in the office. In his place as "god," he either personally or he allowed the elevation instead of Jesus...one could argue "as god." I know your immediate response from a dogmatic pov is that Jesus *is* G!d...OK, but in a secular sense that was not a given throughout the Empire until Constantine, and the people would from then on see Jesus either as G!d or god, either way he was elevated to State Deity, which was made absolute at Thessalonica.
 
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Now the 'Roman Empirical Deity' —

Short answer, I don't think Christ was ever a Roman deity in anyone's mind. His deification was fundamentally an element unique to Christianity, not a Jewish deity (as far as the Jews were concerned) nor Roman, nor Greek. He was exclusively Christian, and He was worshipped as a deity from the get-go. Constantine never presented Christianity as a Roman cult, or a cult accommodated within the Roman pantheon.

Cult? What, like Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses? Branch Davidians perhaps?

I'm not sure how to translate into modern comprehension...more like how Tom Cruise is an implicit if not explicit spokesman for Scientology. If the Emperor said it is OK, then it must be OK!

I know in the past I've held that Constantine was nominally Christian at the same time nominally Pagan. First, his Father was an Emperor, and of necessity his Father was also Pagan. His Father put away his Mother in order to marry into the royal lineage, he was related by marriage to Maxentius (and so was Constantine, later). So Constantine knew intimately the Pagan aspects and routines of royal social intercourse. Yet Constantine's Mother was Christian, by all accounts I've read she was Christian while married to Constantius, but she was of low estate, the daughter of a tavern keeper. In order for Constantius to claim the Emperorship when offered by Diocletian, he had to marry into the family of Maximian, so he put Helena aside. Some say she was a mere concubine, to my way of thinking the difference is semantic, they had a son together, and Constantine had half siblings his Father sired with his Step-Mother. Constantine spent his early childhood in his Mother's presence, certainly long enough to instill Christian values and teachings. When he turned 10 or thereabout, as part of the arrangement to insure his Father's loyalty to the state, Constantine was taken to the Court of Diocletian, and when that Emperor stepped aside, Constantine ended up in the Court of Galerius. In the royal Courts, Constantine learned to be a consummate military man and statesman...he knew, far more than either of us can imagine, the inner workings of the Courts of power, of rulership over Empire. He knew Galerius was attempting to kill him discreetly, so he finally had to flee for his life to the safety of his Father's house at about 30 years old as I recall. Constantine knew both the Pagan world and the Christian world, and could have chosen either one. He was a very complex individual who knew how to play both sides of the aisle, politically.

What I wasn't aware of in previous discussions, or had only become peripherally aware, was the extent of his generosity in restoring property to Christians and Churches. The original St Peters Church was commissioned by him, as was another in Rome (St Pauls?), and more importantly the Hagia Sophia and Church of the Holy Apostles in Istanbul / Constantinople were commissioned by Constantine. And he gave his Mother Helena free reign to travel the Holy Land building and developing sites there that still stand today as a testament to his generosity. So where I previously understood Constantine to be tolerant of and at a late date accepting Christianity, it seems rather the opposite - he was more vested in the Christian faith during his life than he was in the state sanctioned paganism. There is the conundrum of his late baptism, but I have heard that presented in a way that makes sense to me. State leadership of necessity can leave one with dirty hands, and it was understood (then better than now) that once baptized, a person was not guiltless with dirty hands. By putting off his baptism to the end, in his mind he believed he was being absolved of all of the previous sins committed during his entire life.

Before Constantine, Christianity was an outlier, a "cult" as you put it. With Constantine, Christianity became acceptable, even fashionable. After Constantine, Christianity took over the joint.
 
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