For those pantheists

Thomas said: ↑
Human consciousness is contingent upon the body, upon nature and nurture. It is a non-spatial, non-temporal field generated by and therefore, I would suggest, anchored to, corporeal activity

A Cup Of Tea said:
I liked this!
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I do agree. That's a very wise take on a difficult issue.

EDIT: I learn a lot from Thomas.
 
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I go back to the computer analogy: a lot of stuff is brain-generated -- ordinary thought and everyday thought processes -- but I like to believe there's stuff we pick-up from outside of Nature. From the Spirit dimension.

It's Plato's cave. Or 'through a glass darkly'. The Spirit reality permeates the Natural dimension.

The natural dimension is a room in the 'mansion' of Spirit. My Father's house has many mansions. The walls are time. I think of it like that.
 
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Probably the spirit dimension is not infinite, though to nature it seems to be. Perhaps there is a greater dimension that surrounds and permeates Spirit (which itself contains our Natural universe -- pretty big, they say). I like to believe the walls of the Spiritual Dimension are Love.

What lies beyond? Our natural human minds can't go there. Imo.

And beyond that?
 
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wil said:
My computer analogy is ....we are the laptops, G!d the internet, Jesus the modem...(and not denying other modems)
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I think so. God is there for anyone, anytime, anyplace, any faith or religion. God knows every heart. Christ taught in parables?
 
But God won't dance to satisfy anyone demanding 'proof'. Gotta learn the hard way. Only God. Nothing but God.

EDIT" Christ for the humble, poor and broken. Not some smart townie intellectual 'new'atheist demanding God prove (himself)
 
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wil said:
Tell that to US Christians separating families, working on building a wall and immigration reform
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The wealthy right-wing televangelists are like the Pharisees praying on street corners that Christ most criticised. He judged no-one but the hypocrites and especially the merchants in the temple and the professional religious authotities, imo
 
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They are demanding that unless you take the entire Bible text as literal truth, that you will burn in hell. They are seriously working to damage the true meaning of of Christ, imo.

This too shall pass
 
Having a drink now. Hard day. Hot. Need to relax. No more postings tonight.
 
RJM Corbet said:
... but I like to believe there's stuff we pick-up from outside of Nature. From the Spirit dimension.
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So do I.

At the human level, there is the whole dimension of 'meaning', a consideration that the physical sciences don't pick up on (nor need they) beyond the empirical and the pragmatic. Here we enter the realms of philosophy.

RJM Corbet said:
It's Plato's cave. Or 'through a glass darkly'. The Spirit reality permeates the Natural dimension.
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Oh, absolutely! We're in it, so we can't see it, and western culture focusses more and more on material goods.

I think there's a lot of correspondence between plato's analogy and the 'window of the soul'.

RJM Corbet said:
The natural dimension is a room in the 'mansion' of Spirit. My Father's house has many mansions. The walls are time. I think of it like that.
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That's a nice analogy.
 
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RJM Corbet said:
consciousness just for now. T
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But conscious of What?

Elements? Flying birds? Mountain Ranges? Orbs in space?

Okay...conscious of pleasure acquisitions? More pleasure? More pleasure? More pleasure?

Conscious of efficiency? More efficiency? More efficiency? More efficiency?

More Orbs? More Orbs? More Orbs?


Consciousness equates to finding oneself as a part and parcel of the Original Persona.

The Original Persona is juxtaposed with myriads of tiny individual units of consciousness.

Myriads of tiny individual units of consciousness equates to 8,400,000 species of living creatures that BY INSTINCT all seek the same four groups of activities: All Conscious living creatures seek "Sustenance, Shelter, reproduction and rest [aka, eat, sleep, mate and defend]"

Those four pursuits are the any other names for a Rose.

Aside from the self-centered pursuits, there is only the mystery of why it all runs out and we die.

Krishna yogis know the Godhead has his own pastimes and His are not limited as ours is.
 
Bhaktajan II said:
But conscious of What?

Elements? Flying birds? Mountain Ranges? Orbs in space?

Okay...conscious of pleasure acquisitions? More pleasure? More pleasure? More pleasure?

Conscious of efficiency? More efficiency? More efficiency? More efficiency?

More Orbs? More Orbs? More Orbs?


Consciousness equates to finding oneself as a part and parcel of the Original Persona.

The Original Persona is juxtaposed with myriads of tiny individual units of consciousness.

Myriads of tiny individual units of consciousness equates to 8,400,000 species of living creatures that BY INSTINCT all seek the same four groups of activities: All Conscious living creatures seek "Sustenance, Shelter, reproduction and rest [aka, eat, sleep, mate and defend]"

Those four pursuits are the any other names for a Rose.

Aside from the self-centered pursuits, there is only the mystery of why it all runs out and we die.

Krishna yogis know the Godhead has his own pastimes and His are not limited as ours is.
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But can you offer evidence of 'disembodied consciousness' that may be acceptable to the 21st century material science community?
 
Don't get me wrong, I'm not an a(nti)theistic scientist. I'm with you. But the debate here is about being able to supply the purely materialist science community with reasonable evidence? Of consciousness that does not originate from the brain?
 
RJM Corbet said:
Don't get me wrong, I'm not an a(nti)theistic scientist. I'm with you. But the debate here is about being able to supply the purely materialist science community with reasonable evidence? Of consciousness that does not originate from the brain?
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consciousness from the brain is secondary.

The material environs is defacto reality ---how each p.o.v. that views reality sees it from a subjective vantage point.

ie: A movie Screen is filled with images w/protagonist and set goals ---but each p.o.v. that views the same movie. Simultaneously one reality and consciousness of it from different vantage points.

Reality is primary consciousness from the brain is secondary.

There is reality all the while as "conscious beings" come and go.

Is there a defacto purpose of a soul sojourning in all locales to view what reality is like over there. Mountain ranges are so wonderfully pretty and majestic and inspiring ---evidently for soaring eagles and hawks and monach butterflies only.

How lucky is the monkey clan that has abundant fruits, so says the wise old monkey.
 
wil said:
seems you are equating perception to consciousness
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I am lumping subjective perception into the whole lot, consciousness.

consciousness is subjective perceptions at different levels.
There are different levels of perceptability ---all occurring on a single backdrop of reality.

The zoo president.
The zoo manager.
The zoo cleaner.
The zoo ticket seller.
The zoo visitor.
The zoo animal.
 
Just discussed by my preacher as I posted in the Unity thread...

I am reading the book Power vs. Force by David R. Hawkins, M.D., Ph.D. The book is about the levels of human consciousness.

I am struck by an example he presents to illustrate the different perspective he asserts is present at various levels of consciousness which he designates.

Here is the passage. It is quoted from pages 240 - 242:

"Imagine a 'bum' on a street corner: In an upscale neighborhood stands an old man in tattered clothes alone and leaning against the corner of an elegant brownstone. Look at him from the perspective of various levels of consciousness, and note the inconsistency in how he appears to different people and viewpoints.
  • From the bottom of the scale, at a level of 20 (Shame), the bum is seen to be dirty, disgusting, and disgraceful. From level 30 (Guilt), he'd be blamed for his condition: He deserves what he gets; he's probably a lazy welfare cheat. At 50 (Hopelessness), his plight would appear desperate, a damning piece of evidence to prove that society can't do anything about homelessness. At 75 (Grief), the old man looks tragic, friendless, and forlorn.
  • At a consciousness level of 100 (Fear), we might see the bum as threatening, a social menace: Perhaps we should call the police before he commits some crime. At 125 (Desire), he might represent a frustrating problem--why doesn't somebody do something? At 150 (Anger), the old man might look like he could be violent; or, on the other hand, one could be furious that such horrible conditions exist in our country today. At 175 (Pride) he could be seen as an embarrassment or as lacking the self-respect to better himself. At 200 (Courage), we might be motivated to wonder if there is a local homeless shelter--all he needs is a job and a place to live.
  • At 250 (Neutrality), the bum looks okay, maybe even interesting. "Live and let live," we might say--after all, he's not hurting anyone. At 310 (Willingness), we might decide to go down and see what we can do to cheer up that fellow on the corner; maybe we'd be motivated to volunteer some time at the local shelter. At 350 (Acceptance), the man on the corner appears intriguing: He probably has an interesting story to tell; he's where he is for reasons we may never understand. At 400 (Reason), he's a symptom of the current economic and social malaise, or perhaps a good subject for in-depth psychological study.
  • At the higher levels, the old man begins to look not only interesting, but friendly--and then lovable. Perhaps we'd then be able to see that he was, in fact, one who had transcended social limits and gone free, a joyful old guy with the wisdom of age in his face and the serenity that comes from indifference to material things. At 600 (Peace), he's revealed as our own self in a temporary expression."
 
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