For those pantheists

Wishing radarmark was on the radar...

In the case of resurrection, on the other hand, the person remains the self-same person. Same body, same soul, same identity, same-same. The resurrected is the same person, same body, same identity, same life, the continuation of its prior existence in the same form.
contemplating the few times the one in the same body, same identity was not recognized by his closest followers and wondering how many times he has been unrecognized....
John 20:15, 21:4
Luke 24:13-35
 
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The idea of a human birth being greatly difficult to attain is probably usually forgotten? In general the concept of reincarnation seems to be: Oh, I'll get another chance to get it right, so ...

I'd always thought of reincarnation meaning reincarnation upon the planet earth. Where it becomes rebirth into infinite possible other states and dimensions and universes -- which seems far more likely -- it changes the meaning quite a lot, imo.

It becomes the progress upward or downward of the soul, in other dimensions -- many mansions -- and seems more likely than simple heaven hell or purgatory?

I like the idea that a human incarnation on planet earth provides a unique opportunity to achieve paradise/nirvana/Braman in this life.

It's discussions like this that show how different faiths are often really saying the same thing, imo.

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I've stated before my personal parable...

Your parents telling you you can't get any more toys until you learn to take care of the ones you have...

That we've been given this meat suit, a big blue ball to run around on, and a lot of classmates to play with...

Until we learn to respect and take care of all three we will be held back at this grade level as we are not prepared for the lessons in the next plane of existence.

Appears we will be at this for a bit.
 
The idea of a human birth being greatly difficult to attain is probably usually forgotten? In general the concept of reincarnation seems to be: Oh, I'll get another chance to get it right, so ...
Exactly! The Perennialists blame the Theosophists for promulgating this erroneous teaching.

I'd always thought of reincarnation meaning reincarnation upon the planet earth.
Quite. The comfortable assumption that one keeps getting a bite of the cherry until one gets it right.

Where it becomes rebirth into infinite possible other states and dimensions and universes -- which seems far more likely -- it changes the meaning quite a lot, imo.
Factor in its all happening simultaneously, and it get's quite mind-expanding.

It becomes the progress upward or downward of the soul, in other dimensions -- many mansions -- and seems more likely than simple heaven hell or purgatory?
I think they're both right ...

I like the idea that a human incarnation on planet earth provides a unique opportunity to achieve paradise/nirvana/Braman in this life.
LOL, worries me, at times ...

It's discussions like this that show how different faiths are often really saying the same thing, imo.
Yep, as long as one is aware of the differences, and don't try and roll them all into one ball.
 
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Until we learn to respect and take care of all three we will be held back at this grade level as we are not prepared for the lessons in the next plane of existence.
You and your rose-tinted specs!
 
contemplating the few times the one in the same body, same identity was not recognized by his closest followers and wondering how many times he has been unrecognized....

The following is a bit long ... but it rocks my world ...

We will get a clear idea of it if we only consider the role played by our bodies as the instruments of our presence in the world. It is in fact through the body that we are present in a world of bodies...because it can do nothing but offer itself to our gaze, it can do nothing but be seen. To be seen, and to be corporeally present, is all one. My corporeal presence is my visibility, but my visibility is not my own; it belongs to every gaze, unbeknownst to me and without being able to do anything about it — an ignorance and impotence constituting the every essence of my visibility. Thus, no one is master of his corporeal presence, and, even more, to be corporeally present is not to be master of this presence.

What happens then, to the contrary, in the Resurrection of Christ? What happens is that the resurrected Body is as if a witness, a living proof, a saving irruption of the glorious nature of the created within the bosom of its dark and opaque modality: Christ's body is still the instrument of presence in the world of bodies, but, by a total change, it is no longer of the essence of this presence to be passive and involuntary. The soul which inhabits this instrument is entirely master of it and makes use of it at will. Christ can actualize the corporeal mode of His presence according to His own decision and as He judges good. The relationship that He entertains with the corporeal medium of His presence has been completely transformed. A presence active throughout the entire world because a presence really in act, all relationships which unite this corporeal medium with the rest of the bodies, that is to say with the entire world and with the conditions that define it, all these relationships have been changed. Christ is no longer seen, He causes Himself to be seen.

This is exactly what the Gospels teach, and which so many modern exegetes are incapable of understanding. Christ glorious is not 'above' the world of the senses, except in a symbolic sense. Simply put, He is no longer subject to the conditions of this corporeal world. His bodily presentification becomes, then, a simple prolongation of its spiritual reality, entirely dependent upon this reality (whereas in the state of fallen nature, it is the person's spiritual reality which extrinsically dependent upon its bodily presence), a presentification which the spiritual person may or may not effectuate, as freely as human thought can, in its ordinary state, produce or not produce such or such a concept or sentiment. Whoever stops to consider this doctrine of the reversal in the relationship of the person to his corporeal medium and the consequences that this entails, will take into account the remarkable light that it casts on the significance of Christ's post-pascal appearances according to the Gospels.
Jean Borella, Gnosis and anti-Christian Gnosis, "Modern Gnosticism"
 
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The following is a bit long ... but it rocks my world ...


Jean Borella, Gnosis and anti-Christian Gnosis, "Modern Gnosticism"
I'll not forget that.
 
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In the case of resurrection, on the other hand, the person remains the self-same person. Same body, same soul, same identity, same-same. The resurrected is the same person, same body, same identity, same life, the continuation of its prior existence in the same form.
Hence my confusion
 
OK ...

The point Borella is making is we are not in control of our own appearance in the world. (We can work out at the gym and diet, have cosmetic surgery, we can hide, etc., but all this is irrelevant and after the fact.)

We do not own ourselves, we are not in possession of ourselves, we cannot stop being seen ... we are subject to the conditions of the world in which we find ourselves, and there's nothing we can do about it.

The post-Resurrection Christ is totally in control of His appearance in the world, because He is in it and, simultaneously, He transcends it.

He is no longer subject to the world, He is no longer bound by the conditions of this world.
 
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Yet same body..... Trying to work thru what you are saying..
It's the bodhisattva thing. Imo.

An ascended being able to manifest or dematetialize a material body. Like Babaji in Yogananda's 'Autobiography of a Yogi'. Or the Count Germain cult. It's the central principle of Taoist and Kundalini yogas.

It is the enlightened (immortal) being who denies himself nirvana and chooses to continue to work in the material world until all sentient beings are rescued.

But I am not comparing the risen Christ to these 'bodhisattvas' except by way of the explanation. Some people would try to.
 
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So beyond movie connotations of various super powers...(or maybe not)

In the eyes of others Jesus was not a shape shifter but could change his appearance.

This seems to be a common problem with me and my understanding of what others understand.
 
...This seems to be a common problem with me and my understanding ...

It's easy enough to understand. You don't have to believe ...
 
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