Heh yeah, where do you think comedians get their best stuff from?Bandit said:are you saying we have a PEOPLE PROBLEM? I never would have noticed. HEE HEE, WOO HOO, you can say that again.(Laughing hard)
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Islam, Am I right?
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Postmaster
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I 100% truely agree with you on that one. The people can't be fixed, thats why I remain with the religion I was born into. Religion is an inevitable curse just as is Language and skin colour
And it is these imaginary boarders which create races. Many Greeks died under Turkish resistance the earlyest being that of the invasion of Cyprus in 1974 (my parents home land) 30 years ago! What made this problem more serious for the Greeks was the fact that we were Christians and our deaths had some Justification. Greeks have been dieing under the name of religion for 100s of years, mainly because they refused to give up there religion and young girls and mothers used to mass suicide of whole villages, dancing to music of cliff tops so they did not get, raped, murdered or taken by Turks and we still dance to the music today as a reminder of honor. A lot of our churches have been converted to mosques. Is my anger an Illusion? My ancestors, the same blood and thoughts I carry with me today. Has a Christian ever conveted a mosque to a Church? I'm not aware of any instances?Easy there Postmaster,
I didn't mean to pluck an errant chord. The quarrel over the island of Cyprus has been going on for decades, if not centuries, if i'm not mistaken. The trouble in the 70s partially stemmed from the fact that there is also a contingent of Turks living on the north of the island, and the fear that they would be driven into the sea too, after the Cypriot effort to join Cyprus with Greece began in earnest in 1974. Turkey saw this as a threat to its vital interests.
Cypriots and Turks are not alone in this problem of getting along. Americans, for example killed eachother with such fury and ferociousness during the 1860s that all of Europe stood in awe and horror (all this carnage over philisophical, ideological, and economic disputes). In Guam, Rota and Tinian (Marianas islands in Micronesia), tens of thousands threw themselves off of the cliffs into the sea, rather than face the monster Americans that the occupying Japanese forces had portrayed them to be, during world War Two. Rome belived it had to rule the world, while its "conquests" thought they had the right to rule themselves.
In all cases each people believed themselves to be "Divinely inspired", yet all paid a heavy price for their Human behavior (ironically all thought they were right).
Even today, people struggle against neighbors in private "little wars" that in the end leave both dazed and estranged, as well as distrusting.
I bought a house and some land, and began to build on it. I was the new guy. My neighbor (who had lived there for years) had built on his land, but unfortunately some of what he built crossed over on my land. Though initially I was going to leave that part alone, he became angry that I was building too close to "his" property line. I then showed him the papers proving he was already on my land, not his. He sued, I won. He sued again in an attempt to annex the land and I went after him in court with predjudice and forced him to "remove" his building from my land. I won, but we both lost something precious in reality. We lost comradarie, the kinship of neighbors, and a potential friendship.
Was it worth the cost? I don't know. Some days I say yes, and others I think no. I'll probably be of two minds on the issue for the rest of my life. Did he do me wrong? Yes. Did I do him wrong? Yes. Was I justified? Yes. Does that make it right? I don't know. Was it worth it? I just don't know. I wanted his neighborly friendship, what I got was land, his estrangement and his fear.
Ironically, I purposely left God out of the equasion. Probably because I knew He would have said "dump your anger and forget the land, keep the friendship". But pride and knowing the human spirit of aggression precluded me from "giving the extra inch". Instead I (legally) took a mile and threw away a potential relationship. I relied on self, instead of trusting in God, on such a "big" issue.
I understand your frustration Postmaster. Can you understand where I went wrong? Or did I go wrong? The worst part is not knowing after the fact.
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I didn't mean to pluck an errant chord. The quarrel over the island of Cyprus has been going on for decades, if not centuries, if i'm not mistaken. The trouble in the 70s partially stemmed from the fact that there is also a contingent of Turks living on the north of the island, and the fear that they would be driven into the sea too, after the Cypriot effort to join Cyprus with Greece began in earnest in 1974. Turkey saw this as a threat to its vital interests.
Cypriots and Turks are not alone in this problem of getting along. Americans, for example killed eachother with such fury and ferociousness during the 1860s that all of Europe stood in awe and horror (all this carnage over philisophical, ideological, and economic disputes). In Guam, Rota and Tinian (Marianas islands in Micronesia), tens of thousands threw themselves off of the cliffs into the sea, rather than face the monster Americans that the occupying Japanese forces had portrayed them to be, during world War Two. Rome belived it had to rule the world, while its "conquests" thought they had the right to rule themselves.
In all cases each people believed themselves to be "Divinely inspired", yet all paid a heavy price for their Human behavior (ironically all thought they were right).
Even today, people struggle against neighbors in private "little wars" that in the end leave both dazed and estranged, as well as distrusting.
I bought a house and some land, and began to build on it. I was the new guy. My neighbor (who had lived there for years) had built on his land, but unfortunately some of what he built crossed over on my land. Though initially I was going to leave that part alone, he became angry that I was building too close to "his" property line. I then showed him the papers proving he was already on my land, not his. He sued, I won. He sued again in an attempt to annex the land and I went after him in court with predjudice and forced him to "remove" his building from my land. I won, but we both lost something precious in reality. We lost comradarie, the kinship of neighbors, and a potential friendship.
Was it worth the cost? I don't know. Some days I say yes, and others I think no. I'll probably be of two minds on the issue for the rest of my life. Did he do me wrong? Yes. Did I do him wrong? Yes. Was I justified? Yes. Does that make it right? I don't know. Was it worth it? I just don't know. I wanted his neighborly friendship, what I got was land, his estrangement and his fear.
Ironically, I purposely left God out of the equasion. Probably because I knew He would have said "dump your anger and forget the land, keep the friendship". But pride and knowing the human spirit of aggression precluded me from "giving the extra inch". Instead I (legally) took a mile and threw away a potential relationship. I relied on self, instead of trusting in God, on such a "big" issue.
I understand your frustration Postmaster. Can you understand where I went wrong? Or did I go wrong? The worst part is not knowing after the fact.
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Postmaster
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The Greeks and Turks were living peaceful, regardless of what you hear like for instance off the CIA website. Both my grandfathers can speak Turkish and used to have many Turkish friends before Turkey invaded and ethnically cleansed the Island. The Native Ancient man of Cyprus was the Greeks all the way through the Island, the Greeks there still speak a dilect of Ancient Greece, the Turks that settled there were from the times of the Ottoman empire, when Cyprus fell under there rule, in during them times, Greeks were persecuted for there religion. When the Christian Crusaders came and swept Cyprus off the Ottomans Cyprus managed to regain its Native look and feel with the large majority Greek population, when at the same time a minority of Turks lived there and this is the period of time which the Greeks feared of an invasion, especially when propaganda floating round that Turks and Greeks didn't get on. However, both my grandfathers speak Turkish and there is Mosques all over the south (which were origially churches) of Cyprus today untouched and preserved for our Turkish friends, a lonf with there property and land whcih has been untouched by the Greek government. However all of your churches in the North have been.........
Where's the respect for Humanity? Does Islam justify this? Turkeys government is dominated by religious ran and mostly military ran goverment.
B
Bandit
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This is good because it kind of shows that there ARE different types of people in the world and in all countries and neighborhoods. Some who want peace and friendship. Others who thrive on discord and property and don't care who is killed for it.
We have giving people who care about others and try to reason and forgive.
We have selfish people who care only about themselves and could not forgive no matter what the cost.
It kind of stinks when we have to fight just for a principal, when what a good man wants is to love others and give, only to be taken advantage of some who spend there entire life in different bondages.
So we have these never ending battles over who is right.
It is like this everywhere on earth and it is never going to change.
But it will change when the last Kingdom is established. A Kingdom and Nation not built with physical hands.
Hello Postmaster,
I am very disturbed by the picture you displayed, and am saddened by it. I can only tell you this my friend. No where does it say in the Qu'ran that concecrated ground may be desicrated (any holy ground). So, we are right back to a group of "people" (ones that actually did the damage, not the whole), who disregard the sanctity of others. The "religion" and/or culture they come from or they allegedly follow did not command this, their own arrogance did.
A mean spirited man knows no religion, creed, color or ethnicity.
Pity those who are so small minded and cowardly, that they seek to destroy a grave, or disrupt the "sleeping place" of the dead. Pray for them, for they desperately need it. But don't get carried away in their rage. You are better than that...much more so.
I am truly sorry for your frustration and outrage, I can feel some of it as well.
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I am very disturbed by the picture you displayed, and am saddened by it. I can only tell you this my friend. No where does it say in the Qu'ran that concecrated ground may be desicrated (any holy ground). So, we are right back to a group of "people" (ones that actually did the damage, not the whole), who disregard the sanctity of others. The "religion" and/or culture they come from or they allegedly follow did not command this, their own arrogance did.
A mean spirited man knows no religion, creed, color or ethnicity.
Pity those who are so small minded and cowardly, that they seek to destroy a grave, or disrupt the "sleeping place" of the dead. Pray for them, for they desperately need it. But don't get carried away in their rage. You are better than that...much more so.
I am truly sorry for your frustration and outrage, I can feel some of it as well.
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Postmaster
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The Greek Cypriot population is only 500'000 in Cyprus. In Britain it is 60'00000, in India close to a billion. However when it is a population of 500'000 and a country of 60'00000 (Turkey) invades, every single Greek living in Cyprus was effected which was 30 years ago and now the second generation (me) is suffering. All my friends including me know of lost lives and torture due to the Turkish invasion of Cyprus. And all my friends from the North of Cyprus whose parents had property and land (only 8% owned by Turkish Cypriots) they have lost there ancestors inheritance. Turkey now sells the land and property to tourists which break international laws, the Greek Cypriots have made no claim to Turkish property in the south. YET Turkey is still allowed into Europe. Funny how Turkey boarders Iraq, Oil will flow into Europe like water. The Armenian massacre by Turkey lost over one million lives the only international recognition they get is in the Britannica encyclopedia which states 1'500'000 died in the massacre but the figure is as high as 5 million lives. I know Muslim countries have suffered under the Turks like Syria and Kurds. Kurdistan should govern itself, I believe and that’s what the Kurds want, but time after time terror tactics have been used on them, public hangings and life in jail for the Kurds I would go as far and say the UN (Britain) put the Jews in the middle east to keep the Ottomans, since the Turkish government and military is designed for expansion and empire building they were also aiming for the oil wealth countries
Dear Postmaster,
I grieve with you, however, this is not the place to vent. I-Brian has made that quite clear. This is a place of idea exchange. Understand that you have been heard. Please, let us get back to ideas and thoughts.
Please.
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I grieve with you, however, this is not the place to vent. I-Brian has made that quite clear. This is a place of idea exchange. Understand that you have been heard. Please, let us get back to ideas and thoughts.
Please.
v/r
Q
Postmaster
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I understand.. I'm not ranting only giving out facts, I know it creates negative energy. But my point is the world is survival of the fittest, Know one is to blame, I just want to create awareness because western media doesn't cover all world issues that doesn't concern them, probably because western media makes money from new reports from there viewers by there advertisers and they only put what people want to here.
People will not escape the curse of the world, its 2005 and the USA is at war with Iraq!
When does it end? Where is the limit? 99.9 of Iraqis didn't want war but it wasn't up to them in there soverign country, its bad enough they went to liberate the Iraqis but ended out torturing them themselfs
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?p=abu+ghraib+torture
on top of all that the world has gone blind! Blind because the goevrnment is playing you all like puppets!
There is no limit, more wars will break out. They have been for thousands of years.
People will not escape the curse of the world, its 2005 and the USA is at war with Iraq!
When does it end? Where is the limit? 99.9 of Iraqis didn't want war but it wasn't up to them in there soverign country, its bad enough they went to liberate the Iraqis but ended out torturing them themselfs
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?p=abu+ghraib+torture
on top of all that the world has gone blind! Blind because the goevrnment is playing you all like puppets!
There is no limit, more wars will break out. They have been for thousands of years.
Good Evening Postmaster,
I want to tell you a story, a very good story.
I've never been to Greece, or Cyprus, but I have been to the island of Crete. After going through the seaport towns, the nude family beaches, the dance halls, Peter's prison and one of the oldest lighthouses on earth, two of us decided to explore the mountains. We were told in no uncertain terms that going into the mountains unescorted was unwise at best...so, what did we two Coasties do? Headed for the hills.
First thing we learned is that road signs indicating speed are simply there for children to learn their numbers. Solid lines in the middle of the road are simply striping, and have nothing to do with traffic patterns. Pistol packing mommas, are not unique to the the American West, and there is nothing on earth like a wedding/reception between a "Greek" couple.
We found a "resort" restaurant/open bar at 7 PM, and took our time enjoying the food, beer and the scenery. At about 8 PM, a whole bunch of people arrived in the most formal of clothing (over 200 I think), so we decided to sit and wait until the parking lot was quiet. By 8:15 PM my fellow chief and I realized it was a wedding reception and decided to remain, just to watch the celebration from a distance. By 9 we started getting visited by the little ones...(children need no spoken language to express their curiosity, pleasure, or excitment), and since both of us were used to children climbing all over everything, including us, it was fun!
But then the elder women of the party approached, and the children disappeared like smoke before a fan. I don't normally get nervous around women, but this time I made an exception...they were twice my age, and there were several of them. Fred and I kind of looked askance eachother, like "what did we do wrong?"
One elder called the Bar keep over and started talking to her, then the bar keep got this mischevious look on her face and turned to us.
"You are strangers here". Rhetorical question. but one that idiots often answer, "yes", I said. "You are kind to the children." (well I sure as hell hoped so at this point). "We have children of our own", said Fred (bless his heart).
"They like you." Ok, who liked us? Then the food came, and drink, and more food and drink. I looked at Fred and he said, "You know that 'hollow leg' sailors are supposed to have for storing food...we'd better use ours."
We consumed more food and drink in one sitting than I would in a few days.
Finally the bar keep approached and told us that being strangers in a strange land, and welcomed to a wedding, brought good luck to the newlyweds. I'd never heard of that, but it makes sense, sort of...
Then the bride and groom approached, and we started to get up, but a harsh look from the bar keep made us think otherwise. They nodded and smiled, and we nodded and smiled back. The elder women seemed to approve, then it was over. We drove back down the mountain, trying to figure out what just happened, but grinning like idiots just the same.
Who would believe we were like guests of honor at a Greek wedding, in the middle of the mountains/hills on the island of Crete 8,000 miles from our own home?
Better than any wedding I can think of...except my own.
v/r
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I want to tell you a story, a very good story.
I've never been to Greece, or Cyprus, but I have been to the island of Crete. After going through the seaport towns, the nude family beaches, the dance halls, Peter's prison and one of the oldest lighthouses on earth, two of us decided to explore the mountains. We were told in no uncertain terms that going into the mountains unescorted was unwise at best...so, what did we two Coasties do? Headed for the hills.
First thing we learned is that road signs indicating speed are simply there for children to learn their numbers. Solid lines in the middle of the road are simply striping, and have nothing to do with traffic patterns. Pistol packing mommas, are not unique to the the American West, and there is nothing on earth like a wedding/reception between a "Greek" couple.
We found a "resort" restaurant/open bar at 7 PM, and took our time enjoying the food, beer and the scenery. At about 8 PM, a whole bunch of people arrived in the most formal of clothing (over 200 I think), so we decided to sit and wait until the parking lot was quiet. By 8:15 PM my fellow chief and I realized it was a wedding reception and decided to remain, just to watch the celebration from a distance. By 9 we started getting visited by the little ones...(children need no spoken language to express their curiosity, pleasure, or excitment), and since both of us were used to children climbing all over everything, including us, it was fun!
But then the elder women of the party approached, and the children disappeared like smoke before a fan. I don't normally get nervous around women, but this time I made an exception...they were twice my age, and there were several of them. Fred and I kind of looked askance eachother, like "what did we do wrong?"
One elder called the Bar keep over and started talking to her, then the bar keep got this mischevious look on her face and turned to us.
"You are strangers here". Rhetorical question. but one that idiots often answer, "yes", I said. "You are kind to the children." (well I sure as hell hoped so at this point). "We have children of our own", said Fred (bless his heart).
"They like you." Ok, who liked us? Then the food came, and drink, and more food and drink. I looked at Fred and he said, "You know that 'hollow leg' sailors are supposed to have for storing food...we'd better use ours."
We consumed more food and drink in one sitting than I would in a few days.
Finally the bar keep approached and told us that being strangers in a strange land, and welcomed to a wedding, brought good luck to the newlyweds. I'd never heard of that, but it makes sense, sort of...
Then the bride and groom approached, and we started to get up, but a harsh look from the bar keep made us think otherwise. They nodded and smiled, and we nodded and smiled back. The elder women seemed to approve, then it was over. We drove back down the mountain, trying to figure out what just happened, but grinning like idiots just the same.
Who would believe we were like guests of honor at a Greek wedding, in the middle of the mountains/hills on the island of Crete 8,000 miles from our own home?
Better than any wedding I can think of...except my own.
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Faithfulservant
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What a beautiful story.. It really touched me. It brought to my mind the scripture saying that welcome strangers into your home because you never know.. you might be entertaining angels.
Good morning Faithfu,Faithfulservant said:
I never ever expected to be called (or by implication) an angel. The closest I've ever been to being an angel is being a sailor...which I guess in the Israeli language roughly stranslates into angel. I also never thought that the people of the wedding would consider us as possible heavenly hosts. The bar keep certainly did not...
(we were good, honest).v/r
Q
Postmaster
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That’s Greeks for you, these are social skills developed from over 10'000 years of civilization. It is a beautiful thing though, this is how we are with strangers too and vice versa. Crime rate in the Greek islands is virtually 0 and even in the cities still very low. The first Greek civilizations actually started in Crete and Cyprus by the Minoans.
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
Hehe maybe not.. but it explains the whole idea of strangers at a wedding being a blessing.
Quahom1 said:Good morning Faithfu,
I never ever expected to be called (or by implication) an angel. The closest I've ever been to being an angel is being a sailor...which I guess in the Israeli language roughly stranslates into angel. I also never thought that the people of the wedding would consider us as possible heavenly hosts. The bar keep certainly did not...
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Postmaster
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Sorry to seem a little pro Greek which I must admit I ‘am. Blessings doesn't account for Cyprus and Create having the lowest crime rates (regardless of population size) in Europe if not the world. This applies to the rest of Greece and GreekIslands accept Athens where over 70% of the crime is caused by the tiny minority the Albanians who emigrate for work and the tourist who commit crime. And to think Greece isn't even that rich. Its funny that our neighbors the Italians, Turks, Albanians have sky rocket crime levels and the more north you go in Europe the higher the crime, until you get to the richest country in Europe Britain where the crime rate comes down to 6 murders a day Maybe the ancient Greeks had it right that the whole world were barbarians unless you were from the boundaries of Hellas. There were no murders in Cyprus in 2004 other then those caused by tourists mainly from Agia Napa. This year there has been 3 already in Cyprus, all 3 were Turkish Cypriots that got murdered when they escaped to the south to get away from the Turkish mafia, they were found sh ot dead, 2 parents and there 16 year old daughter.
SalaamPostmaster said:
Postmaster,do you think that Greek people alone suffered from Turkish , we also the Arab people suffered very much from Othman state and we are Muslims like them , do you think that Islamic teaching responsible about their behaviors ? Actually they are very far from Islam .
The Media of the world , isunder the control of certain people whom does not have any benefit from your problem to give light on it .
thanks
mirrorinthefog
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With all due respect, Arabs suffer from other Arabs, Greeks suffer at the hands of other Greeks, men suffer from men...Blaming all the problems of the world on one ethnicity really doesn't help, it makes things worse, so does making religion the scapegoat for our own problems.
Postmaster
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But why convert churches into Mosques in the name of Islam if Islam doesn't preach it? I'm glad you came out with this, because this is what I was waiting forFriend said:
Expecting the next part off you too. I'm not going towards any negativity agaisn't Islam here, btw. Only humans.
mirrorinthefog
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It seems you're going off on humans from a particular region though. Although I don't agree with everything done throughout history by the Turks, there's no point in sprouting propoganda. Do we have a right to hate Germans because of the atrocities committed decades ago by Hitler? Or Italians for the brutal expansion policies of Rome? Should you hate me for Vietnam, for Iraq, for what Bush is doing to the world, sometimes in the name of Christian values and beliefs? Doesn't make much sense to blame a whole nation for something that was done in their name, but not necessarily with their approval. As you made the point of indicating we rarely if ever get the whole story, and most people aren't aware of what is being done in their stead till it's overwith.
Postmaster
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Yes but the Cyprus issue is an ongoing one with Turkey.. Turkish troops in the north of Cyprus shooting dead the people of the free south from going close to the boarder line just a few years back. Instead of these issues being dealt with by the international community they have now been allowed accession talk into the European Union. With out meeting up to EU standards. Do I hate Turks? Of course I don't I love them there our brothers, like every human on this planet. No propaganda. Just want to make people aware. These issues have also made me more aware of world issues and I'm not standing for the rights of just Greeks anymore but anyone in these same situations including Arabs, Africans, South Americans ect ect... Ulitmatley its money + humans that is the cause of many issues out there.